Goes to Kenya, trains with Canova, and BAM throws down an unbelievable time. I think he also ran a 59:xx earlier this year.

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https://twitter.com/mungub

Ryan Hall ran under 2:05 at Boston in 2011, but does that not count because of the point-to-point and overall net drop?

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Yes that is correct, Boston is not a certified course (still a great marathon).

I know right!? When he finally started eating that special Kenyan gruel and drinking milky tea and running with the barefooted school children he shaved 6 or 8 minutes off the old marathon time. They sure know how to do it over there.

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Big drop in time from the 2016 Olympics

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Matt

Wow, really amazing how he made such gains so fast. Can't imagine what he did to achieve that.

Also on that particular day there were 10-30 mph tailwinds the whole way.

Usually, in spite of the downhill and point to point nature of the course, Boston is a slow course.

They have THE BEST coffee in Kenya.

Interesting view.
Do you consider endurance athletes and especially cyclists training in North America for doping too. All great North American cyclists have been dopers, so all cyclists training in North America have to be dopers.

I don’t think that is the correct analogy.

More like all recent great North American cyclists (post-Lemond?) have been dopers, so if you started training with them and rapidly improved to the point of competing with them, you likely were doping as well.

Not saying he did or didn’t, just helping the analogy.

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Aaron Bales
Lansing Triathlon Team

Well forgetting the fact that people here are assholes, Moen has underperformed a long time due to injury. He ran some amazing times in high school/college and has changed his training philosophy and mileage a lot since starting with Canova. He now lives and trains at altitude all year around, and follows Canovas hard marathon training plan. There are som great details into his training here http://www.letsrun.com/...d=8495930&page=6
I think it is really low to accuse people of doping without any evidence at all.

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Terrible Tuesday’s Triathlon

Just to add to this. Not only do people lack evidence, they lack any knowledge what-so-ever on the runner, his history and his training the past 5 years vs last 12 months. The sad truth is that the history of endurance -sport contains too many examples where fast-rising stars have later been proven to be dopers, but it is still low to shoot at ANYONE making a stand-out performance and accuse them of doping.

Read up on Moen and come back.

i think its wise to be a bit critical he is obviously an outstanding athlete and only 26 , but its also true his ex coach is now banned from coaching after prescribing some shady stuff.
and his jump has to raise eyebrows ( obviously it can be somethig else too)
so to be critical (of course not accusing ) cant be wrong.

apparantly his half progresion.

2017 59:48 Valencia, ESP 22 OCT
2016 1:02:19 Nice 24 APR
2015 1:02:32 Venlo 22 MAR
2014 1:02:59 Oslo 20 SEP
2012 1:02:48 Venlo 25 MAR

the other side by canova 24.10. 2017 after the 59.47

Finally, which is our goal ?

It's to show that White runners, European or American or from Oceania, can run fast like African runners, if have good talent (maybe not the same of African, but in any case very good), if they decide to dedicate a part of their life to a REAL training, in the same conditions of African people.

The performance of Sondre comes after the same level reached by the twins Robertson, showing possible running fast, if their choice of life is to live for the most part of time in altitude, having continuity in training (something very few African have).

With continuity it's possible to fill the gap of pure talent between European and African top athletes.

Altitude changes physiological parameters of every athlete, if becomes a normal situation, and not only an ecception for short periods (what generally happens to Europeans, going altitude before the main competitions only).

Living and training with some of the best in the World, can give the opportunity to grow, and, if there is good talent, to increase the self confidence, understanding that athletes able running under 1 hour or under 2:07' in Marathon are products of the ambience and of a mentality that doesn't know limits (because the most part don't know anything about the level of athletic performances). Sondre in Kenya trained several times with Abel Kirui and Geoffrey Kirui, while in Europe Always was alone, and this fact gave him the right concentration for running alone the last 10 km in Valencia.

I'm curious to see, now that a White athlete was able to run like some of the best Africans, how White people consider this performance in relation with doping.

Because there are two possibilities only : or people think Sondre is doped (instead doesn't use any supplement, also legit), or has to stop thinking all Kenyans and Ethiopians running like Sondre are doped.

And, again, I hope many go to riconsider the fact that EPO can help athletes training in high altitude with continuity.

I think, and hope, Sondre doesn't finish to amaze people with his future performances, in Marathon too, since the big talent of this athlete is in his mind, and in his choice to dedicate some year of his life to the goal to run fast like Africans.

During the last period of 50 days in Sestriere, he was completely alone in a small apartment, cooking himself, driving the car for moving from Sestriere to Valle Argentera or Val Troncea (that are 10 km far from Sestriere) for every long and easy run (I followed him during specific workouts only). He paid all his training activity with his own money, and till now didn't have any big income for covering his expenditures (I hope from now something can change).

The real question is : How many Sondre there are in Europe or US, as physical talent ? Of sure, probably a big number, also if not the same of Africans. But, while ALL the African runners, with (or without...) talent, try to become professional athletes, HOW MANY WESTERN TALENTS ARE INTERESTED IN RUNNING AND ACCEPT TO HAVE A CHOICE OF LIFE SUCH AS SONDRE OR THE ROBERTSON TWINS ?

This is the real limit : not doping or something else, but the real MOTIVATION fore training at the higher level, making normal a situation that, for the great majority of people, is a situation of uncomfortableness that kills their interest in our discipline.

It is actually a certified course, just not eligible for world records. The Ryan Hall marathon would still stand as fastest non-African.

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In ironman it would ( pink)

Just goes to show how impressive those low 2:07 runs by Steve Jones & Carlos Lopez were in 1985.

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29 years and counting

I agree that one can be critical. But claiming he dopes - merely based on his progression - is something different entirely. Being critical means doing your diligence - look behind the results and pass judgememt based on complete facts. If you still find his sucess hard to explain/accept - fair enough. But atleast do him justice by passing judgement based on more than the information you come by in the first 20 posts on the letsrun-thread.

To the above: there may be more to the story of Moens previous coach than what is known - but the issue that banned him from coaching was that he had forged documents claiming to be a doctor. His relation with the norwegian olympic-body was ended way earlier: not for prescription of «shady»-substaces (the way i understand it) but for setting iron-shots at A far higher level than considered medically reasonable (but then, as it turner out, he was not a doctor after all)

i certainly did not accuse him of doping.
I do think its possible , but i am certainly not going to be the guy like you, getting aggressive with people that raise an eyebrow or ask questions.

If I recall correctly, Canova claims EPO doesn't work on Africans, so something goofy to that effect. I take everything he says with a huge grain of salt.

As for accusing people of doping, that is the new normal for any surprising performance, and it should be. We know that every sport is absolutely rife with doping, whether it be state sponsored, or at the local high school gym.

We also know too many athletes that suddenly have a breakthrough, who turned out to be cheating. Marginal gains don't make people world beaters all of a sudden.

We would be crazy not to take the default position that every sudden surprising jump in performance is as likely to be doped as not.

If I ever ran fast enough to be accused of doping I would see it as a badge of honour and simply a sign of the times.

I didnt mean to come of as aggressive, so sorry if you percieved me that way. I’ll hide behind the fact that english is not my first language. Ill also add that my short rant above was not so much directed at you (given I did not read you as blatantly getting to the accusations), but at posts which have nothing to add to the duscussion but the letsrun-ish: «oh he ran fast? Hasnt run that fast before? Must be EPO.»

So - sure, its totally fine to take a critical approach, but I think any case deseves some research before jumping out with the accusations.

Some cool facts about Sondre.
We was Norwegian xc-ski champion at the age 14-15 (Norway is quite OK in xc-skiing).

At 17 he ran:
3,000 - 8.12
5,000 - 14.02
10,000 - 29.21

I am sure that is good enough to be on a HS team...

He is training in altitude: Iten i Kenya (2400 moh), Sestriere i Italia (2050 moh) og St. Moritz i Sveits (1800 moh).

yes he does claim that epo dosnt work for highly trained athletes that live altitide the whole year. ( i have not nearly enough knowlegdge to refute this claim) overall he does understand his shit there is no doubt aobut it . And of course is a big beliver for atheltes to live in altitide as much as possible.

In this case you have to see that as an approx 20 year old he has some serious results so its not like he never showed talent. and he can certainly claim he has the talent.