I used 100% coke, with some chips at aid stations.

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I'm right around a 3:30 IM marathon runner. Not as fast as I want to be but I'm working on it.

Like above, I fuel my entire run with Coke and water at every aid station. One water, one Coke, one water at each aid station. How much water varies with how hot the race is but all the fuel comes from Coke.

I rely on my body to regulate my electrolytes. As far as I can tell (have never had post race lab tests) it hasn't let me down yet.

ETA: I believe the really important fueling occurs on the bike. If you do that properly so that you come off the bike with your "tank full", then you will be good for at least the first half of the run.

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Jason
None of the secrets of success will work unless you do.

First Endurance liquid shot. Bananas. Coke. Like has previously been posted, keeping on top of nutrition during the bike is extremely important to have a good run.

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Do most of the fuelling on the bike in the race.

On the long training runs I would not take on any fuel. Runs were up to 2.5hrs at 4.00/km pace. Any longer was a waste of time. Be sure to top up the tank properly after.

The only time I took nutrition on a training run is the long brick off the long bike in the final 8 weeks to prepare specifically for the race.

In the race I would take gels on the run because they spill less than cups of sports drink.

Although the question may not get you the answer you are after...You can't eat your way to a fast time.

1. Get used to running in a glycogen depleted state because that is what you will be doing at IM. That is one of 2 real points of the long run. The 2nd is building resistance to the shock on the legs. You get the endurance on the bike.

2. Be strong on the bike.

3. Run fast over short periods. This does two things a. increases your IM run speed. b. stops you sitting in your stride like most AG and many Pro IM runners. You only have to look at photos of Chris McCormack from his ITU days and IM days and see how much more he sagged in his stride later in his career. It became really obvious once he went back to short course and ran next to them.

4. From 8 weeks out practice the race on your long brick.

Not sure what fast is to you so as way of quantifying my remarks. I will regularly have the top 3 fastest run split of the day including elites for HIM and for IM I'm around 3 hours. Have trouble getting the training done to run fast at IM, where as a HIM you can get by on less work.

A bit surprised by all Coke use (I love coke so that'll be right up my alley). Will check out the Liquid Shot, too, looks easier than gels.

Do you guys find that once you start drinking coke you have to get it every aid station or you bonk? (something weird I heard once).

What do you mean by *fast*?

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Mostly gels, 4-5. Maybe a sip or two of coke. Might nibble on pretzels or banana if stomach is growling.

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Let food be thy medicine...

I don't know. I take a Dixie cup of Coke every time it is offered, right from the start. I have never stopped drinking Coke in a race. Most races have Coke at every aid station and if they don't I will grab sports drink instead.

If I start to feel low on energy I will walk an aid station and make sure I get the entire cup in.....maybe even drink a second cup. So far it has never failed to provide me the energy required to run in an IM.

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Jason
None of the secrets of success will work unless you do.

I find it weird everyone using coke... for me personally once ive started on coke, ive got about an hour to finish before my body shuts down in a low from the prior caffeine/sugar high. I know lots of people like this as well. I cant imagine trying to race for 3+ hours on coke

A shot of coke has a couple mg of caffine.

+1 for "what's your definition of fast?"

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Eliot
blog thing - strava thing

I doubt this is due to the caffeine in the coke...if you are lucky enough to get 2-3 ounces in the aid station as you run through, that is only 6-8mg caffeine per station. Repeat this 25 times and you are not likely topping 200 mg of caffeine throughout the marathon. Taking a caffeinated gel (35-50 mg) all at once would much more likely cause issues IF you are that sensitive to caffeine. Most people aren't (2 cups of coffee would likely be over 200 mg caffeine). In my opinion, the benefits of caffeine during performance are very well supported in research. You have to be careful not to start too soon, but you should be able to train your body to be able to last more than 1 hour using caffeine.

FWIW to the original poster, as many people have suggested already, you need to get most of your calories for the run on the bike. During the run, I'll palm a flask of FE Liquid shot mixed with just a bit of water to make it come out easier. I down that by special needs and grab another in my bag that has a scoop of FE Pre race mixed in it for more caffeine (i.e. approx 200 mg caffeine). I also have 1 cup of coke at most aid stations.

one bottle with mix of first endurance 150 cal/infiniti (60mg caffeine) 150 cal, and one power gel 110cal (20mg caffeine). switch to power gels (110 cal each)second half of run all at 60mg caffeine I am still working on figuring out how coke works. Aim is 200-300 cal a hr. Yet to brake 3:30 so maybe i need to do some more tweaking here as well. Take in water and base salt depending on temps.

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2024: Bevoman, Galveston, Alcatraz, Marble Falls, Santa Cruz

I appreciate all the run advice, and understand I won't eat-my-way-fast (what a world that would be!).

Mostly curious about the logistics of nutrition on the run.

For everyone asking "How fast is fast?", I didn't want to preclude someone from answering because they fell outside whatever arbitrary standard I picked. If you think you're fast, I'll take your word for it. :)

Live off the course.

I try and take in 2 gels otherwise I get in as much sports drink as possible or to thirst until I'm on the edge of being bloated.

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I have not actually figured this out yet as I'm always crashing around 22 miles into it. I've tried different approaches & even met with a nutritional consultant. Best I can come up with here is you are unique & what you can't or can handle race day is going to be through experimentation. Once way doesn't fit all. I've seen all kinds of runners using different foods/drinks throughout, even as "lead runner biker" for our local marathon (who alternated each mile with a gel & water, then a gatorade type drink the next mile only.) I've seen some run with a water bottle the entire way, some with hydration belts. My last 3 marathons have been 2:4x:xx but I can not say I have remotely come close to finding the right nutritional combination. My advice is keep working on this in training & racing marathons to narrow it down further.

I am with you here;

Gel flask with 4 gels out of T2 and spread it out over first 15 miles or so, with water/gatorade at aid stations; last 8 miles or so go to the coke and usually pretzels to calm the gut down; salt tab every 30 minutes.

I have found that in my IM runs, unlike the bike, I have to do a lot more titrating (fluids:carbs). So I go in with a plan, but almost always have to modify based on weather, pace, my gut, and the course profile.

I do my long runs with fueling to train the gut.

Cheers!

P.S. AG fast not fast-fast

I am no metric expert, but this is roughly 6:30/mile, right? Do you seriously do 2.5 hour runs at 6:30/mile pace? This is faster than two of my friends who run open marathons in about 2:25, and they are pure runners. It sounds like you are lightning fast but even still, you are basically advocating running roughly 22 miles at 30 seconds faster than IM pace. In the context of a balanced IM or HIM training scheme, this should take way too long for recovery. So what am I missing?

Lets try to keep the post relative to the OP question and helping them.

However in response to your post.

I am not advocating running at that pace. That is an example of my running at my pace.
I come from a running background. 4.00/k for 2 hours is not fast. For my last IM I was targeting a 2.50-2.55 IM run. Running a fresh mara would be under 2.30. I had 6 weeks previously run a 1.14 20k off a 120 bike so it was not unachievable. Unfortunately I did not get to the run leg and have since moved onto other things.

I know 4.00 is about 2.48 mara. I won't go into details on line (because the discussion would be tedious) as to what my thinking was with that pace over only 2 hour runs.

None of these times seem remarkable to me as friends of mine are/were elite runners who ran alot quicker. It is all relative to your peer group.

Sure, I think it is relevant to the OP because you are a very fast runner and thus your approach to training is relevant. Anyway, I agree that the pace itself is not that fast in and of itself, only that the pace relative to the IM pace is very aggressive for a long run in the context of a balanced IM program. If you are only training 8 hours a week, it's a different story. But in the setting of 3x/wk swims, 150 miles biking, and 40 miles of running weekly, I would guess that that type of workout exacts a recovery toll that is simply not worth the marginal fitness gains, especially given there wasn't much fitness to eke out if you are starting at the level of a sub-2:30 marathoner.

All this is to really advise the OP to take his long runs nice and slow. Do not be a hero on your long runs. Build mileage.

I've only done 2, but did well, especially the run, on both. I tried to fuel up on the bike, but on the run I used concentrated Infinit (high caffeine, moderate calorie, fairly high sodium mix--~240 osm when diluted) in Hammergel bottles. Those bottles have a postol grip and hold 5 oz. If I recall, each of those could hold 5-6 x 24 oz bottles worth of concentrated mix. You can carry one and leave one in special needs. (I also left a 200mg caffeine tablet that I chewed up.) I took a sip of the concentrate before the aid stations and chased that with some water. I had zero GI issues. One Hammergel bottle lasted me about 18 miles. I carried both the whole way, but should have left one at Special Needs.
Today, I would probably make a Skratch concentrate and perhaps carry some starchy food for extra calories. (Starches are easier on the gut than sugars.)

Gatorade and Coke give me GI issues.

BTW. Don't over drink. Hyponatremia is a real concern in such a long event. This is not caused by just overdrinking, but also because the muscle injury cause a Syndrome of Inappropriate ADH, causing one to retain free water. A lot of folks in marathons and long triathlons who initially diagnosed with overheating or dehydration are really hypotremic, which is more dangerous. If I recall, Tim Noakes wrote a book on this.

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Dick

Take everything I say with a grain of salt. I know nothing.

I did not find the recovery that taxing probably because it was not that hard for me and my body. I'm made for running.In the 8 weeks before an IM in every 9 days I would have done one long run 2-2.5 hrs and one 2/3 run usually 1.5 hours . The day before the 2/3 run was generally my long brick 4-5hours bike with a 12-20km brick (in intervals) off the bike at 4.00/k.

However in that 9 days I had 3 days either full rest or maybe a gym only for two of those days. Recovery plan is the first thing that should be in a program.

This is a good example of why specific workouts and sessions are not the answer. Most fast people know this. It is about the whole program. Just looking at that work in the first paragraph would make most people go whaaaat? But then when I say I did 3 recovery days in 9 (due to work) it looks more achievable.

Off season training was alot different. Short, fast, lots of recovery.

Hope that helps.

Edit: I have had great success coaching other athletes with their running who consider themselves "non runners" going from having trained for years to get to Kona and always losing it on the run. To becoming genuine runners in their AG. But to do this you need to take control of the whole program, not just the running aspect. Because it is all about recovery.

Sure, build mileage. And definitely don't be a hero by running your long run too fast. As an example of too fast, running your long run at or around HIM pace is too fast. But don't build mileage at the cost of form by running too slow or too long. Too many people run longer and longer but look worse and worse as they do it and sit in their stride.

Form drills only take you so far. They don't give you the strength to run with good form. You end just looking pretty running slow over short distances.

But when building mileage there comes a point where you are better off running faster than running longer. Doing one long run then another 2/3 long run in 9 days was plenty of "mileage" and once able to withstand that becomes more about the run speed to get improvement. And realistically it was only about IM pace anyway. I'm not big on adding in speed reps into long runs for triathletes although it can work in some programs. I prefer polarising training like real runners do and running really hard short and steady long. Although, many genuine runners run even slower on their long runs comparitively, but they also have alot time time to make that up being a single sport discipline.

So much good stuff, thanks folks!

Today was long run day and I did it carrying my infinit with me (haven't had a chance to experiment with any of the ideas you've given me). It wasn't bad, but I do feel that starting out with 40 oz. of liquid may cost me some time on race day. I just started using a vest for long runs (http://www.ultimatedirection.com/...ory=signature-series), and while it's super comfy and allowed to carry all my water / infinit for a 2.5 hour run, as I said, on race day I wonder how much time it would cost me.