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Falun 2015 WC 30k Women Video
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This is one great race. Tough course, tough athletes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWSi1KY9R0M

Falun is amazing. Maybe triathlon has something to learn?
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Re: Falun 2015 WC 30k Women Video [Halvard] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for posting all these videos. It really si great that the entire race is posted on youtube. Really good form on display by Johaug heading up the steep climbs. Her cadence is unreal!
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Re: Falun 2015 WC 30k Women Video [Halvard] [ In reply to ]
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One thing that continues to bother me about FIS and UCI is them having the women doing shorter "long" events than the men (or generally across the board, forget about long events). The nail should have shut this coffin when Joan Benoit ran the LA Olympic marathon in 2:22 in 1984....sheesh we are not in 1984, we are in 2015. 30 years later, these athletes who are arguably unreal should be doing the 50K. It would "just" be a 2;15-2:20 race for them and in line with the women's running marathon. When is FIS going to take their heads out of the sand. They just keeping sending a message to young developing female athletes that they are inferior and not capable of the same distance as the boys (here in Canada at the high school level, the boys race longer distances in XC skiing than the girls....it really is a pathetic situation). The girls are fully capable. Why do the pro women skiers just sit there and accept this message from FIS. Paula Newby Fraser was like 20th overall in Kona in 1989. Johaug is an unreal athlete. She could rip the entire field apart equally at 30K or 50K the way she was skiing yesterday. She may have races a more relaxed pace for more of the race, and perhaps the outcome would be a bit different, but so be it!!!
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Re: Falun 2015 WC 30k Women Video [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:
One thing that continues to bother me about FIS and UCI is them having the women doing shorter "long" events than the men (or generally across the board, forget about long events). The nail should have shut this coffin when Joan Benoit ran the LA Olympic marathon in 2:22 in 1984....sheesh we are not in 1984, we are in 2015. 30 years later, these athletes who are arguably unreal should be doing the 50K. It would "just" be a 2;15-2:20 race for them and in line with the women's running marathon. When is FIS going to take their heads out of the sand. They just keeping sending a message to young developing female athletes that they are inferior and not capable of the same distance as the boys (here in Canada at the high school level, the boys race longer distances in XC skiing than the girls....it really is a pathetic situation). The girls are fully capable. Why do the pro women skiers just sit there and accept this message from FIS. Paula Newby Fraser was like 20th overall in Kona in 1989. Johaug is an unreal athlete. She could rip the entire field apart equally at 30K or 50K the way she was skiing yesterday. She may have races a more relaxed pace for more of the race, and perhaps the outcome would be a bit different, but so be it!!!

Is that the message you hear as a man, or what women have told you they hear? Why does shorter imply inferior?
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Re: Falun 2015 WC 30k Women Video [Jctriguy] [ In reply to ]
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Jctriguy wrote:
devashish_paul wrote:
One thing that continues to bother me about FIS and UCI is them having the women doing shorter "long" events than the men (or generally across the board, forget about long events). The nail should have shut this coffin when Joan Benoit ran the LA Olympic marathon in 2:22 in 1984....sheesh we are not in 1984, we are in 2015. 30 years later, these athletes who are arguably unreal should be doing the 50K. It would "just" be a 2;15-2:20 race for them and in line with the women's running marathon. When is FIS going to take their heads out of the sand. They just keeping sending a message to young developing female athletes that they are inferior and not capable of the same distance as the boys (here in Canada at the high school level, the boys race longer distances in XC skiing than the girls....it really is a pathetic situation). The girls are fully capable. Why do the pro women skiers just sit there and accept this message from FIS. Paula Newby Fraser was like 20th overall in Kona in 1989. Johaug is an unreal athlete. She could rip the entire field apart equally at 30K or 50K the way she was skiing yesterday. She may have races a more relaxed pace for more of the race, and perhaps the outcome would be a bit different, but so be it!!!


Is that the message you hear as a man, or what women have told you they hear? Why does shorter imply inferior?

That is the message I have heard from the teenage girls who I coached. Also the shorter distances favour some girls with different fast/slow twitch muscle fiber composition vs others.
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Re: Falun 2015 WC 30k Women Video [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:
Jctriguy wrote:
Is that the message you hear as a man, or what women have told you they hear? Why does shorter imply inferior?


That is the message I have heard from the teenage girls who I coached. Also the shorter distances favour some girls with different fast/slow twitch muscle fiber composition vs others.


That message isn't very loud then. It rarely came up at the national level, and the topic of women in sport was huge. People were much more concerned about equal opportunities existing for men/women in terms of team and trip selections.

With some of the younger categories, the distances can certainly be quite short on the women's side. That can easily change without dealing with FIS. The local organizers and provincial bodies can make those changes. Above the younger categories, the difference in results between 5, 10 and 20k races is very minimal. Even the 'sprint' races are basically the same group of athletes that win and fill the top 6. Northup won the sprint and 50k this year.
Last edited by: Jctriguy: Mar 1, 15 12:03
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Re: Falun 2015 WC 30k Women Video [Jctriguy] [ In reply to ]
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Jctriguy wrote:
devashish_paul wrote:
Jctriguy wrote:
Is that the message you hear as a man, or what women have told you they hear? Why does shorter imply inferior?


That is the message I have heard from the teenage girls who I coached. Also the shorter distances favour some girls with different fast/slow twitch muscle fiber composition vs others.


That message isn't very loud then. It rarely came up at the national level, and the topic of women in sport was huge. People were much more concerned about equal opportunities existing for men/women in terms of team and trip selections.

With some of the younger categories, the distances can certainly be quite short on the women's side. That can easily change without dealing with FIS. The local organizers and provincial bodies can make those changes. Above the younger categories, the difference in results between 5, 10 and 20k races is very minimal. Even the 'sprint' races are basically the same group of athletes that win and fill the top 6. Northup won the sprint and 50k this year.

My guess I you are hanging out with a different set of people. Imagine the outrage in the running community if we told women they can't do the marathon. Women would rip the IOC and IAAF apart instantly. Perhaps women in the ski community aren't quite as vocal because the "marathon" on skis is not perceived as being the same level of achievement in the general population so the rank and file woman athlete does not aspire to doing this distance as much. Seriously though, imagine if Messick made the woemn's IM distance 2 mile swim, 100 mile bike and 18 mile run because for some patriarchal antiquated reason men decided that women are not strong enough to "handle" the same distance as men. I do certainly blame the top elite women for not pushing this harder...Grete Waitz, Allison Roe et al...and they were much more vocal about what women were able of and wanted equal opportunities to "suffer too".

But just because you don't hear it with the people you hang with does not mean women at the lower tiers of ski racing don't care...elite women may not want to rock the boat and mess with the opportunities they have.

As for changing things at the lower levels, it's not that easy because at the Olympic level women race shorter then men, so it all flows down from there. They stick with the status quo because "it's the way it is...look at the Olympics". Meanwhile the same teenage school girls race the same distance as the boys in the club tri circuit. How is it possible that the same girls suddenly are too weak on skis?
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Re: Falun 2015 WC 30k Women Video [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:
Jctriguy wrote:
devashish_paul wrote:
Jctriguy wrote:
Is that the message you hear as a man, or what women have told you they hear? Why does shorter imply inferior?


That is the message I have heard from the teenage girls who I coached. Also the shorter distances favour some girls with different fast/slow twitch muscle fiber composition vs others.


That message isn't very loud then. It rarely came up at the national level, and the topic of women in sport was huge. People were much more concerned about equal opportunities existing for men/women in terms of team and trip selections.

With some of the younger categories, the distances can certainly be quite short on the women's side. That can easily change without dealing with FIS. The local organizers and provincial bodies can make those changes. Above the younger categories, the difference in results between 5, 10 and 20k races is very minimal. Even the 'sprint' races are basically the same group of athletes that win and fill the top 6. Northup won the sprint and 50k this year.


My guess I you are hanging out with a different set of people. Imagine the outrage in the running community if we told women they can't do the marathon. Women would rip the IOC and IAAF apart instantly. Perhaps women in the ski community aren't quite as vocal because the "marathon" on skis is not perceived as being the same level of achievement in the general population so the rank and file woman athlete does not aspire to doing this distance as much. Seriously though, imagine if Messick made the woemn's IM distance 2 mile swim, 100 mile bike and 18 mile run because for some patriarchal antiquated reason men decided that women are not strong enough to "handle" the same distance as men. I do certainly blame the top elite women for not pushing this harder...Grete Waitz, Allison Roe et al...and they were much more vocal about what women were able of and wanted equal opportunities to "suffer too".

But just because you don't hear it with the people you hang with does not mean women at the lower tiers of ski racing don't care...elite women may not want to rock the boat and mess with the opportunities they have.

As for changing things at the lower levels, it's not that easy because at the Olympic level women race shorter then men, so it all flows down from there. They stick with the status quo because "it's the way it is...look at the Olympics". Meanwhile the same teenage school girls race the same distance as the boys in the club tri circuit. How is it possible that the same girls suddenly are too weak on skis?

I suggest you bring that message to Beckie, Sara, Kikkan, etc. Let them know how disappointed you are in their lack of advocacy for longer distances. Certainly worth more than spending precious time on doping and ensuring fair competition :) While your at it, what are your thoughts on womens beach volleyball and the uniform requirements?

I'm quite certain that I've spent time with 100's of skiers from all across Canada and 100's of parents and coaches. Can count on one hand the number of times unequal race distances for men/women has been a topic.
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Re: Falun 2015 WC 30k Women Video [Jctriguy] [ In reply to ]
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I can admire them as athletes, at the same time feel they can do much more on pushing for equal geneder access. Lack of that sends the wrong message to young women athletes. I have an entire long thread on how since it's inception FIS has been run by men...another topic!
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Re: Falun 2015 WC 30k Women Video [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:
I can admire them as athletes, at the same time feel they can do much more on pushing for equal geneder access. Lack of that sends the wrong message to young women athletes. I have an entire long thread on how since it's inception FIS has been run by men...another topic!

How about the fact that there are no women events - not a single one - in the nordic combined!
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Re: Falun 2015 WC 30k Women Video [Halvard] [ In reply to ]
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thanks for posting the videos and keeping us up to date. I would not have seen these races otherwise, and it was a joy to watch Therese Johaug attacking for 25km..
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