False Testamonials

Jun 25, 04 23:10

Post #1 of 25 (6913 views)

After reading slowman's reply to the Kouta Guy, I was reminded of how stupid some folks are out there. It happens time and time again, where a company trys to create a demand for their product by acting as satisfied consumers. However, when they do their shenanigans in the reviews, they are 2 inches away from the picture when start typing. It happens everyday. I think the consumer should be the ones to give the grade.

Another great example of this has been cut and pasted directly from duathlon.com. This was written by the folks at Carbboom energy gel. If the content was not obvious, the name would be obvious to anyone that knows the company.

I have a friend that sent herself flowers in h.s. Her thought was that she would create a false stimuli to get the guy she wanted.........Now that I think about it, she was hooked up with Johnny bad ass 3 days later. I am going to go start a thread on e-Gel....gotta go!!

Re: Kuota Kalibur [KUOTA GUY] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

"By the way nothing is comparable to that bike !!! not even my ex-P3..."

your email address is info@euro-spek.com and euro-spek.com is the URL for kuota. i have no idea whether this bike is a good one or not, but when you make statements like this i think it's fair to point out that you have some connection with the company. further statements by you...

"I just bought a Kalibur size Large ! 4 weeks ago I just love it!"

"I will say that I have been lucky to find the KUOTA product that now I just loving it, fit extremely well, nice range for adjustment (seatpost rail)."

"I can say this I received a great service for that bike from the KUOTA dealer channel."

these comments make it seem like you're a consumer, not an employee. best if we can clear up any confusion.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

MCARY Rating: 5/5 Nov 24, 2000 20:26 Send this review to a friend very tastey, my favorite energy gel Time owned: 3 to 6 months I never tried this until last spring. I used the apple flavored gel at Wildflower 1/2 and man it was awesome. At mile 11 on the run, I did a "taste-test" comparison between Carb-BOOM and power gel, just to see if there really was a difference in taste. Trust me, Carb-BOOM was a lot better - no after taste, no digestive problems. I then used it at Ironman Canada- can you imagine eating an energy gel for 10 and half hours and having it still taste good? This stuff is great- try it !!!

Re: False Testamonials [paulthomas] [ In reply to ]

Jun 26, 04 4:02

Post #2 of 25 (6848 views)

I'm glad this was exposed for what it was. This incident is the irony of how much influence the Internet weilds. I am trememndously aware of it on our own website.

A few days ago we posted a review of the Guru Cron-Alu. In it were comments I quoted from one of our employees. After the review went up he read it and said, "That is not what I said." So we immediately pulled it down until it is corrected.

We say in our reviews on our home page that we are really only interested in reviewing products we stand a chance of turning a profit by selling. Sometimes we run critical reviews too. Many reviews of products that are truly terrible never make it up. Since I am in the business of selling what is the point of (even in truth of our opinion) trashing someone else's produt just becasue I don't like it.

All that said, the integrity of some posters and "reviewers" is suspect. I try to always make my motives and agenda a matter of written record in a review so a reader can assign whatever degree of credibility to our reviews they choose.

Everyone who uses the Internet as a marketing media should do the same.

Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

Re: False Testamonials [Tom Demerly] [ In reply to ]

Jun 26, 04 4:23

Post #3 of 25 (6836 views)

This is what we put on our site about our reviews. The photo is the late Michael R. Rabe. He was the "keeper of truth" and his stock in trade was always credibility, verification and integrity. I hope his legacy continue in our work today.

http://www.bikesportmichigan.com/bikes/productrev.shtml

Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

Re: False Testamonials [Tom Demerly] [ In reply to ]

Jun 26, 04 4:57

Post #4 of 25 (6812 views)

One thought on your reviews, particularly regarding not-so-flattering ones. . .

There is value to me, as a consumer, even in your not-so-flattering reviews, but not because I necessarily take your opinion as the end-all-be-all. I understand your position and thought process on things and how it meshes with my own thoughts. Therefore, if you present something as a negative, and it happens to be something I disagree with you on, well, I can take it as a positive. Why? Because you are consistent in your thought process and review technique. If you say something is xxxxx, I have pretty good faith that it is so.

So I guess I would say that if I were you I wouldn't stray to far from posting not-so-flattering reviews. You have never just outright trashed a product. That might be a wrong move. But rather, you tend to point out what and why you don't like the product, but your language tends to leave it to the reader to decide if it is truly a negative or not in their particular case. I personally thought your Blade review a couple of years ago was very fair, mostly for that reason.

Long story short, negative reviews can be written in constructive ways, and you do a good job of conveying just that. More reviewers should do this. As a consumer, I tend to quit trusting reviewers who exhaust their superlative vocabulary on every product they test. That doesn't jive with reality. Some products do, indeed, just plain suck. Some are mediocre. Some, but very few, are truly great.

Re: False Testamonials [TriBriGuy] [ In reply to ]

Jun 26, 04 5:21

Post #5 of 25 (6797 views)

Sometimes negative reviews put us in a difficult position. I have had bike companies threaten my business because of a review I published. It doesn't bother me when it only affects me, but when it puts my employees at economic risk, I can't allow that.

One bike manufacturer sent us a test bike for review after "borrowing" one of our reviews for their own website without asking our permission. When we rode the bike for three months for the review the left seatstay broke. I returned the bike to them and said nothing. It was the only time it ever happened. The bike was three months old. We never had problems with that brand before.

They sent me an invoice for $250 to repair the brken chainstay on the review bike. What kind of a review am I supposed to write then? "The bike broke after 3 months normal use without warning and the company would not honor any warranty claims, in fact billed us $250 for the repair..."

I wonder if they considered that when they sent out the invoice. Not very smart. I never paid it. I figured the bike was under warranty. I wager they send us to collections for it.

Typical of how short sighted some bike companies are.

Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

Re: False Testamonials [Tom Demerly] [ In reply to ]

Jun 26, 04 5:37

Post #6 of 25 (6780 views)

Understood, Tom. I suppose that is why I'd have a hard time in your position. To have to try to keep both sides, manufacturer and customer happy. . . Unfortunately, manufacturers have a hard time taking the high road since it does get down to $. They are trying to sell their product. The old notion of "the customer is always right" is quaint and naive in the grand scheme of things.

Re: False Testamonials [paulthomas] [ In reply to ]

Jun 26, 04 10:06

Post #7 of 25 (6703 views)

Testimonials are a bad advertising practice anyway, since they are almost always biased or influenced in some way.

In my trade (investment management) customer testimonials (real or imaginary) are actually forbidden under Federal law.

Re: False Testamonials [paulthomas] [ In reply to ]

Jun 26, 04 10:18

Post #8 of 25 (6684 views)

Some testamonails are valid and needed.

Like Cervelo for example. There are no more aerodynamic or smoother riding bikes on the road. The biomechanics of the Cervelo Design insure maxuim comfort and power delivery.

Get your Cervelo today!

customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.

Re: False Testamonials [Tom Demerly] [ In reply to ]

Jun 26, 04 12:43

Post #9 of 25 (6623 views)

I like the fact that Kuota guy just changed his screen name to PDFAKA. Now I believe him to be impartial! Right! I guess he didnt realize all his old posts would be retagged with his new handle. I like his story about how since he showed the company behind Kuota the value of this site they let him use their email? Yeah, thats a good idea. I would love to have some guy not affiliated with my company running around the internet using my email address. I can picture the monday morning meeting with our president. "hey paul some guy is posting kiddie porn under the handle info@spinergy.com" Oh yeah that guy, he loves our wheels so I gave him that address to use, that way when he tells the world how great they are everyone will know to contact us! Good story Kuota Guy,..... I mean PDFAKA. Backwards that could be short for Also Known As F@#$ing Dumbass Poster

Re: False Testamonials [Mr. Tibbs] [ In reply to ]

Jun 26, 04 12:44

Post #10 of 25 (6623 views)

My ex-girlfriend's dad used to do that on internet restaurant review sites for his restaurants. They were too well written and mentioned to many specific products to be actual reviews of the restaurant. That's why you gotta take everything you read on the internet with a grain of salt...or two if you have a race the next day.

------------------------------------------------------------
"One thing I have found there are just two ways to go
It all comes down to livin' fast or dyin' slow"- Robert Earlk Keen Jr.

Re: False Testamonials [Mr. Tibbs] [ In reply to ]

Jun 26, 04 14:00

Post #11 of 25 (6564 views)

Quote:

HERETIC!!!!!.....no titanflex pics for you!

bikenazi

_________________________________________________
That is just one more group of people that should be thrown screaming from a helicopter- George Carlin

Re: False Testamonials [paulthomas] [ In reply to ]

Jun 26, 04 15:36

Post #12 of 25 (6515 views)

False testimonials are a pain. Phoney endorsements piss me off too.

You read about athletes endorsing Amino Vital and Optygen and this and that, but who's to say if they actually use the stuff? It's only about the money. Lorrie Bowden rode a Specialized for a few years, so the company could look good, but didn't win until she went back to the Cheetah. Cat Bikes doesn't need more biz, because their bikes are on a waiting list already, but obviously they're faster than Specialized.

Larsen rocked everybody on a Lotus, then got a contract with Cerv�lo. So how do we know if he was faster on the P3 or would have done better with the Lotus? I'm inclined to think the Lotus was a better machine.

Athletes should be required to use the nutritional products they endorse EXCLUSIVELY. Don't tell me Accelerade is your secret, Dave, you DNF'd the year you used it. Maybe you couldn't stand the taste either, you whore. You said it tastes GREAT! Bimbo, the stuff tastes like Yak piss.

OK, I feel better now...

Cousin Elwood - Team Over-the-hill Racing
Brought to you by the good folks at Metamucil and Geritol...

Re: False Testamonials [paulthomas] [ In reply to ]

Jun 26, 04 19:11

Post #13 of 25 (6428 views)

So I wonder if the post about Nashbar's compact cranks could of been someone from Nashbar!

Dave

Re: False Testamonials [Cousin Elwood] [ In reply to ]

Jun 27, 04 9:14

Post #14 of 25 (6332 views)

In Reply To:

Larsen rocked everybody on a Lotus, then got a contract with Cerv�lo. So how do we know if he was faster on the P3 or would have done better with the Lotus? I'm inclined to think the Lotus was a better machine.

That's actually not exactly true. Larsen first rode a Mongoose tri bike, then for his first Ironman (Ironman USA) he used a Cervelo P3 without contract and won. Then his bike sponsor, Mongoose, told him he'd better not do that again, that he could not endorse another bike company even if it was without a contract. But of course he knew there was value in him riding a bike, so clever as he is he got himself not a bike endorsement but a shop endorsement. He got Nytro to sponsor him, and you will see from the Hawaii there is no Lotus logo on it, just Nytro logos. Mongoose could not object to that, and Nytro didn't care since as the distributor for Lotus, a Nytro logo on the bike was as good as a Lotus logo as they would get all the sales from that bike anyway.

After Hawaii Steve's contract with Mongoose was over and he was free to sign with anybody he wanted to. That's when he went back to his P3. As for which bike is faster, that is a obviously a different story and looking at Steve's results doesn't tell us too much. He decimated the field at Ironman USA on the P3, and did the same thing three months later in Hawaii on the Lotus. Or we could conclude that he ran off the P3 much better than off the Lotus (2h56 vs. 4h). Must be the smooth Aluminum tubing :-). Or we can conclude that one ran off of a yellow P3 than off a silver or red/white one (which are some of the later P3s he rode.

Gerard Vroomen
3T.bike
OPEN cycle

Re: False Testamonials [gerard] [ In reply to ]

Jun 27, 04 9:34

Post #15 of 25 (6304 views)

In rigorous testing at their facilities in Dearbron, Michigan, the Independant Bicycle Test Council (IBTC)has determined and verified that the red/white version of the P3 is fastest in the following conditions:

1. headwinds.
2. tailwinds.
3. hills.
4. flat conditions.
5. all other conditions.

Red and white tested substantially faster than previous model year colors. Additionally, after rigorous and meticulous testing in real world envrionments it was determined that the new color for the P3, whatever it will eventually be, is even faster by an equally substantial margin in even more conditions.

Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

Re: False Testamonials [Dr. Doom] [ In reply to ]

Jun 27, 04 9:41

Post #16 of 25 (6296 views)

Hey there little buckaroo it seems like you ae the one who put a new house for the safety and comfort of your family, a new wonderful child and the healing of the sick ahead of my bike porn! How am I supposed to shamelessly polish over something if you ain't sending me pictures.

Dude your prioraties are as bad as my spelling.

customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.

Re: False Testamonials [Tom Demerly] [ In reply to ]

Jun 27, 04 9:41

Post #17 of 25 (6295 views)

You know, I actually had a guy call me a few years ago, just after we sstopped making yellow P3s, looking for one. He had read in a Physics textbook that all colors of light actually travel at slightly different speed, and that yellow light was quite fast. So he figured a yellow P3 would be faster than a blue one. The guy would not give up, I was sure it was a troll but he really wasn't. I spent 30 minutes with him on the phone explaining that it didn't work that way, but he kept saying I was just saying that because we didn't have yellow P3s left in stock. It was quite bizarre.

Gerard Vroomen
3T.bike
OPEN cycle

Re: False Testamonials [gerard] [ In reply to ]

Jun 27, 04 9:48

Post #18 of 25 (6286 views)

"I spent 30 minutes with him on the phone explaining that it didn't work that way"

-Sounds like my man needed a $800 custom paint upgrade to the new, "Mitigated drag coefficient reflective ambient yellow coating".

An educated consumer is our best customer. And the customer is ALWAYS right.

Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

Re: False Testamonials [Tom Demerly] [ In reply to ]

Jun 27, 04 9:48

Post #19 of 25 (6286 views)

LOOOOOOOOL

=====================================
S�rgio Marques
When it hurts is when it feels good ;-)
Sergio-Marques.com

Re: False Testamonials [Tom Demerly] [ In reply to ]

Jun 27, 04 10:20

Post #20 of 25 (6268 views)

<<-Sounds like my man needed a $800 custom paint upgrade to the new, "Mitigated drag coefficient reflective ambient yellow coating".

An educated consumer is our best customer. And the customer is ALWAYS right. >>

Tom,

I'm logging off to go strip my bike down and box it up. I'll e-mail you with the UPS tracking number tomorrow. Would you prefer credit card or money order?

Brett

Re: False Testamonials [gerard] [ In reply to ]

Jun 27, 04 12:16

Post #21 of 25 (6234 views)

Thanks for the insight. I just wish I had known he was going to lose the Lotus. I could have made him an offer! I saw him ride that one (briefly) at San Jose the following year. sweeeeet...

Cousin Elwood - Team Over-the-hill Racing
Brought to you by the good folks at Metamucil and Geritol...

Re: False Testamonials [gerard] [ In reply to ]

Jun 27, 04 16:01

Post #22 of 25 (6167 views)

No offense, but I'd never ride a yellow bike. Yellow means you are scared.

Re: False Testamonials [gerard] [ In reply to ]

Jun 27, 04 19:14

Post #23 of 25 (6113 views)

It continues to amaze me how people are able to pervert science. Obviously black is the fastest color. Black heats up more due to absorbing more wavelengths of light. The hot frame then heats the air surrounding it, which in turn lessens the density of the air according to Boyle's Law (PV=nRT), which allows the bike to go faster.

Re: False Testamonials [smtyrrell99] [ In reply to ]

Jun 27, 04 20:12

Post #24 of 25 (6093 views)

Well, actually, black objects radiate heat better than other colors (the phenomenon is called black body radiation). White reflects more (albedo effect). But the bottom line is that black objects tend to be slightly cooler than white objects. Now, what the air temp around a black bike is versus a white bike....? As for PV=nRT, that is called the Ideal Gas Law, ideal meaning that the law works for gases at such a low pressure and density that they don't interact. For higher densities, there is a correction formula which contains two additional parameters. In any event, your PV=nRT will only work in a "closed" system, and no, a "closed" bike course will not qualify as a closed system. But, on the whole n/V (density) = P/RT works approximately well at standard conditions (273 K, 1 atm) so that increasing the temperature will decrease the density. Perverting science? You ain't seen nothing yet. ;-)

Behold the turtle! He makes progess only when he sticks his neck out. (James Bryant Conant)
GET OFF THE F*%KING WALL!!!!!!! (Doug Stern)
Brevity is the soul of wit. (William Shakespeare)

Re: False Testamonials [parkito] [ In reply to ]

Jun 27, 04 21:40

Post #25 of 25 (6068 views)

Go touch two cars, one white and ond black, that have been out in the sun for two or more hours. I GUARANTEE that the black one is hotter. I grew up in EL PASO. Have Francois take the test. better yet, got to a car lot and touch two of the same model, that have been out in the hot sun. A so-called 'black object' does radiate heat batter, but metal painted black gets WAY HOTTER in the sun.

_________________
Dick

Take everything I say with a grain of salt. I know nothing.

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