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FTP jargon
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Hi there can anyone help me decipher some of the tech talk I see on here. I realize what FTP is then I see people saying they ride at sweet spot which is 90% of FTP is this correct? I then see people saying they do 2 x 20 at sweet spot. I have only ridden with the intention of going as hard as possible every session for an hour straight. My question is if you are doing an hour ride for example why would you not just ride the full hour at 90% what is the benefit of doing 2 x 20 min at this effort with what I'm assuming is some sort of rest between the 2 20 min intervals?

My training which I have been doing for a year or so has led to an FTP of 282 watts on the computer bike I use at gym not sure if they are accurate but I always use the same bike so it's consistent for me and this is by riding as hard as possible for an hour at each session.

Should I be doing 90% effort some days to get more benefit as people on here say its the sweet spot? I have started doing some intervals sessions where every 7 mins I increase to around 305watts for 3 mins which I assume would be a vo2 interval? I do this for an hour.

Also when people say the do a 2 x 20 at threshold is this riding at their FTP? If so what effort are you supposed to do in between the 2 x 20 at FTP for the rest of session?

I have used the search function and learnt a bit but I just need some clarification as there is no muppets guide to this stuff.

While I'm at it i keep seeing TSS popping up what does this tand for and how is it relevant to my training?

Appreciate any help
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Re: FTP jargon [Bone crusher] [ In reply to ]
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Bone crusher wrote:
Hi there can anyone help me decipher some of the tech talk I see on here. I realize what FTP is then I see people saying they ride at sweet spot which is 90% of FTP is this correct? I then see people saying they do 2 x 20 at sweet spot. I have only ridden with the intention of going as hard as possible every session for an hour straight. My question is if you are doing an hour ride for example why would you not just ride the full hour at 90% what is the benefit of doing 2 x 20 min at this effort with what I'm assuming is some sort of rest between the 2 20 min intervals?


My training which I have been doing for a year or so has led to an FTP of 282 watts on the computer bike I use at gym not sure if they are accurate but I always use the same bike so it's consistent for me and this is by riding as hard as possible for an hour at each session.

Should I be doing 90% effort some days to get more benefit as people on here say its the sweet spot? I have started doing some intervals sessions where every 7 mins I increase to around 305watts for 3 mins which I assume would be a vo2 interval? I do this for an hour.

Also when people say the do a 2 x 20 at threshold is this riding at their FTP? If so what effort are you supposed to do in between the 2 x 20 at FTP for the rest of session?

I have used the search function and learnt a bit but I just need some clarification as there is no muppets guide to this stuff.

While I'm at it i keep seeing TSS popping up what does this tand for and how is it relevant to my training?

Appreciate any help


If you ask really nicely you might find Andy Coggan will answer these questions for you himself.

Have a look at these,


http://www.pbscience.com/training-articles/factsheets/576-training-in-zone-3.html


http://www.fascatcoaching.com/sweetspot.html

Also read this.

http://home.trainingpeaks.com/...ower-training-levels

http://home.trainingpeaks.com/...ctor-training-stress

http://home.trainingpeaks.com/...-performance-manager

I'm not advertising anything here but as Andy Coggan is the man who coined all the phrases you are probably best reading any articles he has written and get things from the horses mouth as it were.
Last edited by: Spoke: Apr 24, 14 0:18
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Re: FTP jargon [Spoke] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks mate I will have a read through that
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Re: FTP jargon [Bone crusher] [ In reply to ]
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A true FTP measurement ride is (ideally) an all-out, 60-minute, collapse-at-the-line effort (which you probably already know). A full hour at 90% is achievable, but is not routinely manageable (say, 2-3x per week) for day-in/day-out amateurs. The 2x20 set is regarded as a reasonably effective workout that offers 40 minutes of relatively high-quality effort with a short recovery (typically 2' spin) to make the work load manageable.

If you're the hardcore type, then you may consider this a soft alternative to harder and/or longer sets. However, since endurance sport success is largely based on consistent, long-term work, think of a 2x20 at 90% as a way to apply sufficient loading to your legs/lungs while simultaneously enabling you to do so relatively often.

"The right to party is a battle we have fought, but we'll surrender and go Amish... NOT!" -Wayne Campbell
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Re: FTP jargon [Bone crusher] [ In reply to ]
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Bone crusher wrote:
Also when people say the do a 2 x 20 at threshold is this riding at their FTP? If so what effort are you supposed to do in between the 2 x 20 at FTP for the rest of session

While I'm at it i keep seeing TSS popping up what does this tand for and how is it relevant to my training?

Appreciate any help

Such interval descriptions can be ambiguous. You have to ask the person saying it for clarification.

A good interval workout desciption should include:
- duration of efforts
- intensity range of efforts
- frequency of efforts / rest interval duration
- number of efforts per set
- number of sets of efforts
- intensity of "recovery" between efforts and sets
- context of session, e.g. is it part of another ride
- any warm up / warm down
- specific execution notes, e.g. on a hill, or cadence info, or what bike, on an ergo or oudoors etc

2x20 could mean anything but commonly refers to efforts that are somewhere near threshold power level e.g. 90-105% of FTP with enough recovery / easy riding in between to be ready to get going again. 0 to 10 minutes.

As is always going to be the case, you tend to trade off total duration and intensity of effort over the course of training. Less intense might mean you can do more of them.

TSS is a useful way to quantify training stress by providing a means with power data to normalise the stress experienced from rides of different types and account for riders' variable fitness levels. That information can then be used in helping track and assess overall training loads and then see how they relate to your performance.
Last edited by: Watt Matters: Apr 24, 14 15:01
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Re: FTP jargon [Bone crusher] [ In reply to ]
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Bone crusher wrote:
Hi there can anyone help me decipher some of the tech talk I see on here. I realize what FTP is then I see people saying they ride at sweet spot which is 90% of FTP is this correct? I then see people saying they do 2 x 20 at sweet spot. I have only ridden with the intention of going as hard as possible every session for an hour straight. My question is if you are doing an hour ride for example why would you not just ride the full hour at 90% what is the benefit of doing 2 x 20 min at this effort with what I'm assuming is some sort of rest between the 2 20 min intervals?

My training which I have been doing for a year or so has led to an FTP of 282 watts on the computer bike I use at gym not sure if they are accurate but I always use the same bike so it's consistent for me and this is by riding as hard as possible for an hour at each session.

Should I be doing 90% effort some days to get more benefit as people on here say its the sweet spot? I have started doing some intervals sessions where every 7 mins I increase to around 305watts for 3 mins which I assume would be a vo2 interval? I do this for an hour.

Also when people say the do a 2 x 20 at threshold is this riding at their FTP? If so what effort are you supposed to do in between the 2 x 20 at FTP for the rest of session?

I have used the search function and learnt a bit but I just need some clarification as there is no muppets guide to this stuff.

While I'm at it i keep seeing TSS popping up what does this tand for and how is it relevant to my training?

Appreciate any help

Opinion: 2X20' at sweet spot is a waste of time unless you are looking for an easier day. 3X20' at sweet spot is a better workout, I would put 5' between those. I know some people that are doing 5X20'.

As far as I understand the sweet spot training is slightly less taxing on your body so that you can do it every day and not just in 2 or 3 rides a week. That constant training stress is what will make a better cyclist.

If you want to do VO2 stuff you will need to need to be over 110% of your threshold for 3 to 5 minutes with nearly equal time for rests. Your 3 minutes hard with 4 min recovery is on the short end but in line with the timing required. I would suggest you go just a little harder. 20 minutes of VO2 work is a lot so if you got through 7 times you would have nearly the right volume for one workout. Whether you need to do VO2 work is a matter of opinion. A guideline I was given is that if you 5 min power is not 115% better than your FTP then you should work on VO2 power some.

2X20 at threshold is riding between 95% and 105% of their FTP. Easy effort for 4 to 5 minutes between them. I normally do 45 to 60 min of warm up from easy to tempo. Cool down is whatever you want it to me. I'll go 80% if I'm riding a long time afterwards.

TSS is from Training Peaks and it stands for Training Stress Score. It's basically a metric they invented to track the amount of training stress you are putting on yourself. Google that and read more.

jaretj
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Re: FTP jargon [jaretj] [ In reply to ]
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jaretj wrote:
TSS is from Training Peaks and it stands for Training Stress Score. It's basically a metric they invented to track the amount of training stress you are putting on yourself.

TSS is my invention, not TrainingPeaks'.
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Re: FTP jargon [Andrew Coggan] [ In reply to ]
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Please excuse the mistake as I am a big fan of TSS

I was introduced to TSS from WKO
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Re: FTP jargon [jaretj] [ In reply to ]
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jaretj wrote:
Opinion: 2X20' at sweet spot is a waste of time unless you are looking for an easier day. 3X20' at sweet spot is a better workout, I would put 5' between those.
Yes, but for those with time constraints, 2X20' intervals at sweet spot on the trainer on a work night is better than 1xNothing!

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Re: FTP jargon [ms6073] [ In reply to ]
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ms6073 wrote:
jaretj wrote:
Opinion: 2X20' at sweet spot is a waste of time unless you are looking for an easier day. 3X20' at sweet spot is a better workout, I would put 5' between those.
Yes, but for those with time constraints, 2X20' intervals at sweet spot on the trainer on a work night is better than 1xNothing!

If there is a time constraint then why not do 2X20 at threshold and get more bang for the buck?

I wish you would have quoted the next sentence as well:

"As far as I understand the sweet spot training is slightly less taxing on your body so that you can do it every day and not just in 2 or 3 rides a week. That constant training stress is what will make a better cyclist. "
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Re: FTP jargon [jaretj] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for the great replys guys that has cleared a lot of things up for me
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Re: FTP jargon [Bone crusher] [ In reply to ]
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That's the fucking attitude!

Lots more recovery needed to go 90% for an hour. Takes away from putting the quality in the other disciplines. But seriously, "Why not go 90% for the whole hour" is the way to think.
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Re: FTP jargon [jaretj] [ In reply to ]
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jaretj wrote:
I wish you would have quoted the next sentence as well:

"As far as I understand the sweet spot training is slightly less taxing on your body so that you can do it every day and not just in 2 or 3 rides a week. That constant training stress is what will make a better cyclist. "
Yeah, sorry as that was a good point and really more what I was aiming for.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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