Rich @ Wheelbuilder.com is a great resource for single wheel requests... Enjoy!

Sweet, that's worked out nicely!

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Do you have a timeline on when the new molded in brake track will make it's way onto the 4.5 clinchers?

One things about the Zipps is that the rear hub has a new clutch mechanism in it. It is designed to reduce freehub drag but has to add some weight. I asked the rep at Kona to quantify it, they said it was significant but couldn't quantify it. The carbon hub and the new brake track of the Enve wheels looks nice as well. I would love to ride either set but I am on Zipp 808s for now with a Catalyst cover. Regardless, I would still like the option for 16 spokes front and 20 spokes rear to lighten things up. I have a 20 spoke rear laced to a G3 Powertap that I have ridden forever and has never need truing and never felt like the wheel wasn't stiff. Also, my last 6 or so Zipp wheels have all been under weight from spec as well. Sometimes as much as 70 grams for a single wheel. For the record, I don't have a deal with either company.

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You're going to be hard pressed to find someone with significant time on either wheelset. ENVE has a great reputation. And so does Zipp. I've ridden one of the earliest prototypes of the NSW since May daily, on all road, and all conditions. Still run true and straight as an arrow. They are great.

The new Zipp hubs seem super impressive. I don't have time on them, but they are amazing in terms of concept. The axial clutch is designed totally release during coasting. It's totally new. It's a little thing, but it's attention to detail.

I've ridden Zipps almost daily since 2008. In that time, I've had two problems. I collapsed a spokehole on a wheel. And I had a disc that snuck through QC and was just outside of tolerance for runout. That's over roughly 70,000 miles on Zipps.

The NSW wheels are the best wheel I've ever ridden. Hands down. And I didn't even get to experience the new hubs yet. And talking with the other engineers at Zipp, they are amazing. The engagement is incredibly fast while also being the first hub to totally disengage the pawls during coasting for nothing but bearing drag, which is minimal.

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

I had 45 Classics and compared to any modern CC - ENVE 6.7s, Bontrager Aeolous 5s, Zipp 404s - their performance is shit in the rain. Even on Dura-Ace brakes and Swisstops they were a complete mush in the wet. Any modern wheel will be a massive improvement, especially the new ENVEs.

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ZONE3 - We Last Longer

I don't know about these two wheelsets, but I'd definitely like a heed h3 /pink

Excellent. Thanks.

Anyone have experience with Zipp repair work post warranty period? At that price they should step up and match ENVE with a 5 year warranty. What is it at present, 2 years?

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Mike

Ugh. And here I was totally fine with my 808 firecrests until I read this. Damn you.... ;)

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Thanks for the input Jordan.

If you don't mind me asking here is a (longish) question :

Considering 808 NSW are said to save 3-4 watts over 808 firecrest which already were kind of the benchmark for spoked wheel, and that's at 40km/h if I read properly though not sure the watts saving is also attached to the 40km/h speed in that sentence :

"The 808 NSW represents Zipp�s more advanced technologies for tangible gains in aerodynamic efficiency and stability. The 808 NSW provides a 3-4 watt savings compared with the bench mark for excellence, the 808 Firecrest, which means an estimated 90 seconds at 40km per hour over 112 mile (180.25km) Ironman� -distance."

Also considering the 808 firecrest rear was as close to the Super 9 clincher rear disc as you could get (808/808 was 2.5 watts slower at 45km/h than 808/Super9 at 45km/h in Tour Magazin 05/2013 issue).

Without a clear information on how many watts to spin the Super 9 saves over an 808 NSW.

Finally taking into account the Super 9 rear does not have the new rear hub of the 808 NSW yet.

Would you ride 808 NSW front/rear or Super9 rear / 808 NSW front ?

all of your data is a red herring and not pertinent to the question.

the answer is always disc (and you already know this), unless the race specifically forbids discs or your financial situation or logistics situation is that you can only have one set of wheels.

I know a few people that train and travel full time and only ride spoked wheels (Zipp or Enve, etc.) but given the chance they'd ride a disc. I can't speak for Thomas Gerlach above, but I would reckon he falls into this category, and that's why he uses a wheel cover instead of a disc.

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Thanks.

I feel like it doesn't matter

To ENVE,

Do you have some aero information ready for the 7.8 ? Since it is developped with 25mm tires in mind a comparison of GP4000S II 700x23 against GP4000S II 700x25 would be awesome !

Better braking, better rear hub, does not sound that crazy to consider a 808NSW set even when a disc is allowed. I'm not saying I would do it but is it so crazy to ask the question ?
It kind of depends on two things I guess :
- watts to spin
- at which yaw angle the 808NSW is going to stall (Super9 CC probably stall at >20� like most disc), if 808NSW stalls at 17.5� or more then it's probably very close 99% of the time to the disc so only watts to spin now matters and I'm still curious to see a clear measurement on that...

So Eric, yes I'd probably still ride a disc but maybe I'm wrong and at least I'm curious to rear how close to a disc we get with 808NSW and Enve 7.8 (or Reynolds Aero 90 for that matter since Reynolds states it is faster than their Element disc) !

On a beam bike, I'd ALWAYS run a disc. Maybe a bit less clear on a bike with a seat tube, but still, I'd probably always run a disc. The "sail" effect of a disc is pretty significant.

I would use 808 front/rear without hesitation on technical courses, though, where the compliance of a disc plays a factor. Alcatraz is the perfect example. It's a great TT bike course. But it's a terrible course for a disc.

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

Here you go... This chart is a graph from a tunnel test earlier this summer when we were finalizing the shape of the SES 7.8. It shows the comparison between 6.7, 7.8, and 8.9 with the 4.5 thrown in there as well.

The 7.8 and 4.5 are next gen SES shapes and optimized around 25mm tires. The 6.7 and 8.9 are optimized for 23mm tires.

Keep in mind that drag reduction only tells a part of the story. Our next gen SES not only reduce drag but they are notably more stable than our first gen wheels and consequently any of our competitors wheels we've ridden. On top of that they are lighter and stiffer which makes for a phenomenal ride experience. The SES 8.9 set the standard for an open spoked aero wheel in terms of drag reduction at higher yaw angles, but the 7.8 achieves even more drag reduction where it counts most and it is super stable, lively and fun to ride.

The 7.8 has raised the bar in terms of aero performance and rideability.

This particular test is but one set of data points done in a Scott Plasma, 40kph, GP 4000S II tires. Axis are watts and yaw.

Waooo if there is no typo on this graph, the 7.8 is the first wheelset I see that is faster with GP4000S II 700x25 clincher than with GP4000S II 700x23 clincher. Considering rolling resistance is also lower (though not by much when the tire is pressure to the section of the clincher) you really have something special here !!!

The data does seem a little funny, though. For one, as you mention, the 25mm is actually faster than 23mm at all yaw angles. Even wheels like the 303 FC that Zipp deliberately designed for such wide tires does not show this behaviour. It could be some effect when testing the wheel in a bike, right or wrong - and by wrong I mean e.g. not changing the rear wheel spacing to the seat tube so that the 23mm tire will have a too large gap causing extra drag.

Another thing is the 6.7 being faster than the 8.9 up until 10 degrees of yaw. And the 4.5 being faster at 5 degrees than 8.9 and very close at 10 degrees, even with a wider tire - and generally being worse at zero yaw, while blending in with the rest at 5 and 10 degree and then again being slower at 15 degrees. It seems a bit funky and I wonder what the error bars would be like on that graph.

Just parroting Jordan here - I've ridden the same Zipp 606 wheelset since 2007 and they are still straight and great. The technical term would be a "bazillion" miles, training for Ironmans every year. A quality structural carbon wheelset is really an amazing thing and totally worth the money.

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Do you think the 7.8 with a 25mm tire will fit in the fork of a 2013 BMC TM02? I'd hate to order one and have it too be big.

You'll have to check with the people over at BMC.

Interesting, but I lack the technical skills to interpret this data.

Could you by any chance outline what this means in terms of 'time savings' over the standard 40km TT at 40kmh, in still conditions (each using the tire width they're designed for)?

i.e.
4.5: 0 seconds saved
6.7: ? seconds saved
7.8: ? seconds saved
8.9: ? seconds saved

I'm looking a buying an ENVE set (but only one!) and would love this info to consider trade-offs.

It has been a long time and post Sram buyout so I am not sure if things changed but I had good luck with replacing a tubular wheel where the was a delamination of the tire bed. I had no receipt and I was not the original owner and the replaced the rim and sent me a rebuilt wheel with the old hub at no cost

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