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Double Amputee on South Africa's 4x400 T&F Team. Fair?
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jaelinfunk
Jul 5, 12 12:02
Post #1 of 89
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Double Amputee on South Africa's 4x400 T&F Team. Fair?
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http://sports.yahoo.com/...-132145418--oly.html
does this seem fair to you.. carbon fibre spring loaded limbs? against us mear mortals, he doesn't have a chance at winning but i guarentee if you gave a Usain Bolt the same tools no one would ever touch the world record again...
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jackmott
Jul 5, 12 12:04
Post #2 of 89
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Re: Double Amputee on South Africa's 4x400 T&F Team. Fair? [jaelinfunk]
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The same tools would not help Usain bolt, too short of a distance. If you gave them to one of the top 400m guys though, yes they would probably smash the record.
I say it is not fair, but don't mind seeing it anyway.
Kind of how I feel about Lance at Ironman France. cognitive dissonance!
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ChrisM
Jul 5, 12 12:10
Post #3 of 89
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Re: Double Amputee on South Africa's 4x400 T&F Team. Fair? [jaelinfunk]
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Interesting recent article in Outside magazine re Pistorius
http://www.outsideonline.com/...tprint.html?page=all
ajthomas
Jul 5, 12 12:24
Post #4 of 89
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Re: Double Amputee on South Africa's 4x400 T&F Team. Fair? [jaelinfunk]
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jaelinfunk wrote:
http://sports.yahoo.com/...-132145418--oly.html
does this seem fair to you.. carbon fibre spring loaded limbs? against us mear mortals, he doesn't have a chance at winning but i guarentee if you gave a Usain Bolt the same tools no one would ever touch the world record again...
When trying to formulate an answer: It might matter to some that the spring level, size and engineering is limited to standards that makes it equivalent to an able bodied person. Purely from a performance perspective it would not benefit someone to cut off their legs and strap on the limbs.
I hate saying it, but even so, I think we have to show up at the starting line with exactly what we have no matter what the circumstance.
AlanShearer
Jul 5, 12 12:27
Post #5 of 89
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Re: Double Amputee on South Africa's 4x400 T&F Team. Fair? [ajthomas]
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I hate saying it, but even so, I think we have to show up at the starting line with exactly what we have no matter what the circumstance.
I assume this means no Newtons.
steveandbarb1
Jul 5, 12 12:30
Post #6 of 89
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Re: Double Amputee on South Africa's 4x400 T&F Team. Fair? [AlanShearer]
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If he was challenging world times, perhaps things would have been analyzed/decided differently. However it is an overall good story for the Olympics and what crap we have going on around the globe, it is a great piece on strength and mental courage.
saltman
Jul 5, 12 12:31
Post #7 of 89
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Re: Double Amputee on South Africa's 4x400 T&F Team. Fair? [jaelinfunk]
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ST never ceases to amaze.
pick6
Jul 5, 12 12:31
Post #8 of 89
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Re: Double Amputee on South Africa's 4x400 T&F Team. Fair? [jaelinfunk]
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jaelinfunk wrote:
http://sports.yahoo.com/...-132145418--oly.html
does this seem fair to you.. carbon fibre spring loaded limbs? against us mear mortals, he doesn't have a chance at winning but i guarentee if you gave a Usain Bolt the same tools no one would ever touch the world record again...
very simply. yes, and for 1 reason: because the rules are written that way. Its not like the rules were suddenly changed for one runner midseason. He's elligible to run under the rules as written, and I think its fine.
schroeder
Jul 5, 12 12:37
Post #9 of 89
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Re: Double Amputee on South Africa's 4x400 T&F Team. Fair? [jaelinfunk]
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I vote no before China starts cutting the legs off 9-year-olds.
JRenfro
Jul 5, 12 12:38
Post #10 of 89
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Re: Double Amputee on South Africa's 4x400 T&F Team. Fair? [pick6]
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Rules are arbitrary.
Philb
Jul 5, 12 12:38
Post #11 of 89
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Re: Double Amputee on South Africa's 4x400 T&F Team. Fair? [pick6]
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I think i read an article saying that he runs his races differently from other runners in that he starts slower, but then gets quicker and quicker until the end. Does this give him an advantage, I'm not in a postion to judge. I do wonder which leg he will run in the relay and whether the blades will be seen as a danger to the other runners if he runs any leg except the first.
Goosedog
Jul 5, 12 12:39
Post #12 of 89
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Re: Double Amputee on South Africa's 4x400 T&F Team. Fair? [schroeder]
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schroeder wrote:
I vote no before China starts cutting the legs off 9-year-olds.
Excellent.
npage148
Jul 5, 12 12:43
Post #13 of 89
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Re: Double Amputee on South Africa's 4x400 T&F Team. Fair? [jaelinfunk]
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Well, he does run for Nike and we see how they pull string with USATF to get their athletes preference in high level events so why would it be different in SA (kinda pink)
jackmott
Jul 5, 12 12:47
Post #14 of 89
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Re: Double Amputee on South Africa's 4x400 T&F Team. Fair? [saltman]
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saltman wrote:
ST never ceases to amaze.
the op does not fully understand the issues at hand, but he is right the Oscar almost certainly is running faster with his prosthetics than he would with normal legs, given the aerobic engine he has.
this is due to a few factors, the primary two being the reduced weight of his lower limbs, and the physiologically free return energy he gets from them.
additionally he is free to play with different lower limb lengths to optimize performance.
of course all of this is offset by a slower start, trickier turns, and extreme complications in getting in enough training volume.
but, still, all the data points to it being an advantage, for him, overall, at this distance.
which is fascinating I think. the rules currently allow him to race, but if someone with a big enough engine one day shows up that may be forced to change in the future.
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SWoo
Jul 5, 12 12:51
Post #15 of 89
(2624 views)
Re: Double Amputee on South Africa's 4x400 T&F Team. Fair? [jaelinfunk]
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No.
http://www.sportsscientists.com/...able-physiology.html
Gandalf
Jul 5, 12 13:03
Post #16 of 89
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Re: Double Amputee on South Africa's 4x400 T&F Team. Fair? [ajthomas]
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ajthomas wrote:
When trying to formulate an answer: It might matter to some that the spring level, size and engineering is limited to standards that makes it equivalent to an able bodied person. Purely from a performance perspective it would not benefit someone to cut off their legs and strap on the limbs.
Which in this case it isn't. No one can touch him over the second 200m, but he always has a gap to make up after the first. So he's obviously not racing the same race. Id' imagine that over 600m he's be untouchable.
ajthomas wrote:
I hate saying it, but even so, I think we have to show up at the starting line with exactly what we have no matter what the circumstance.
yup
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kaburns1214
Jul 5, 12 13:14
Post #17 of 89
(2535 views)
Re: Double Amputee on South Africa's 4x400 T&F Team. Fair? [jackmott]
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This was litigated (or rather arbitrated in 2008). Here's excerpt on the case from wikipedia:
In 2007, Pistorius took part in his first international competitions for able-bodied athletes. However, his artificial lower legs, while enabling him to compete, have generated claims that he has an unfair advantage over able-bodied runners. The same year, the
International Association of Athletics Federations
(IAAF) amended its competition rules to ban the use of "any technical device that incorporates springs, wheels or any other element that provides a user with an advantage over another athlete not using such a device". The federation claimed that the amendment was not specifically aimed at Pistorius. After monitoring his track performances and carrying out tests, scientists took the view that Pistorius enjoyed considerable advantages over athletes without prosthetic limbs. On the strength of these findings, on 14 January 2008 the IAAF ruled him ineligible for competitions conducted under its rules, including the
2008 Summer Olympics
. This decision was reversed by the
Court of Arbitration for Sport
on 16 May 2008, the Court ruling overall there was no evidence that Pistorius had any net advantage over able-bodied athletes.
Blog updated (07/20/2012):
Armstrong Case - USADA's Motion to Dismiss
furiousferret
Jul 5, 12 13:18
Post #18 of 89
(2519 views)
Re: Double Amputee on South Africa's 4x400 T&F Team. Fair? [SWoo]
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I want to see it, but its not fair.
If they allow this why shouldn't they allow someone with no hand to pitch in baseball with a Jai Alai Cesta. I'd love to see a 150 mph fastball.
veganerd
Jul 5, 12 13:36
Post #19 of 89
(2448 views)
Re: Double Amputee on South Africa's 4x400 T&F Team. Fair? [jackmott]
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but how much less mucsle mass does he have from not being able to lift weights the same way? he may have been even faster with his own limbs if he was able to increase his muscle mass.
enemy of epilepsy
doubleplay
Jul 5, 12 13:47
Post #20 of 89
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Re: Double Amputee on South Africa's 4x400 T&F Team. Fair? [jaelinfunk]
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NO. There's paralympics where he can go and race.
--------------------------------------------------------
I see obsessed people.
veganerd
Jul 5, 12 13:50
Post #21 of 89
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Re: Double Amputee on South Africa's 4x400 T&F Team. Fair? [doubleplay]
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doubleplay wrote:
NO. There's paralympics where he can go and race.
not even close to the same career opportunities.
enemy of epilepsy
phog
Jul 5, 12 14:02
Post #22 of 89
(2353 views)
Re: Double Amputee on South Africa's 4x400 T&F Team. Fair? [jaelinfunk]
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jP6vmqi7c7I
This is Pistorious racing against the able bodied at a World Class level. If you watch closely he has no advantage and makes up no ground on the last 200. His best appears to be the 2nd hundred on the back straight. But lets not have any facts get in the way.
What he is, is an inspiration to those who strive to be normal in a world that won't allow them to be. And when they level the playing field a little, mean spirited, small minded people like to stake out their territory by pissing all over them. None of these self righteous souls would dream of giving up their own advantages, natural or mechanical to make if fairer.
steamboatgeoff
Jul 5, 12 14:02
Post #23 of 89
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Re: Double Amputee on South Africa's 4x400 T&F Team. Fair? [veganerd]
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Career opportunities aside, I think it is poor form to participate in both the Paraolympics AND the Olympics. An athlete is either a Paraolympian or an Olympian. Pick a pool to play in and stay there.
veganerd
Jul 5, 12 14:06
Post #24 of 89
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Re: Double Amputee on South Africa's 4x400 T&F Team. Fair? [steamboatgeoff]
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steamboatgeoff wrote:
Career opportunities aside, I think it is poor form to participate in both the Paraolympics AND the Olympics. An athlete is either a Paraolympian or an Olympian. Pick a pool to play in and stay there.
perhaps jackie robinson should have stayed in the negro league because he started in that pool first?
enemy of epilepsy
furiousferret
Jul 5, 12 14:11
Post #25 of 89
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Re: Double Amputee on South Africa's 4x400 T&F Team. Fair? [phog]
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phog wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jP6vmqi7c7I
This is Pistorious racing against the able bodied at a World Class level. If you watch closely he has no advantage and makes up no ground on the last 200. His best appears to be the 2nd hundred on the back straight. But lets not have any facts get in the way.
What he is, is an inspiration to those who strive to be normal in a world that won't allow them to be. And when they level the playing field a little, mean spirited, small minded people like to stake out their territory by pissing all over them. None of these self righteous souls would dream of giving up their own advantages, natural or mechanical to make if fairer.
Its almost impossible to tell if he has an advantage or not by just watching a video. Very minor dynamics make a drastic difference in races.
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