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Do we weaker swimmers sometimes swim too much?
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I've noticed something recently. I have got a little faster, this is a big deal as I have been Mr Plateau and Mr one-speed for a long while.
I had a new coach who was prescribing 50s etc. in order to change this but it made little difference.
I was swimming every day, so 7 days a week, occasional day off, sometimes twice in one day. But every session I felt the same.

Recently I cut my swimming right back, mostly due to other commitments. Now I am in the pool 3-5 times a week, 1 open water swim, weekends off swimming. Finally I have noticed some gains! I am hitting those sessions fresher, able to hold form better, able to get my forearm in particular into the right position and apply more backwards force. I am swimming quicker.

I had previously thought that as my weakest discipline and plenty of time on my hands I should be swimming all the time, I knew I was tired in sessions but I thought at some point my body would catch up and I'd suddenly start feeling stronger, it never happened.

I know there will be many that say that I should be swimming easy sessions, but for a weaker swimmer this isn't always possible, swimming is always taxing for me, it just changes speed based on how tired I am!

So, rather like the HIIT approach to cycling, cutting the miles/sessions and hitting a few select sessions hard, maybe the same approach is better for us weaker swimmers until we have built up the ability etc. to cope with the mileage.

Just my 2 pennies worth.
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Re: Do we weaker swimmers sometimes swim too much? [Marcell_S] [ In reply to ]
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I would say train incorrectly.
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Re: Do we weaker swimmers sometimes swim too much? [Marcell_S] [ In reply to ]
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Marcell_S wrote:
I've noticed something recently. I have got a little faster, this is a big deal as I have been Mr Plateau and Mr one-speed for a long while.
I had a new coach who was prescribing 50s etc. in order to change this but it made little difference.
I was swimming every day, so 7 days a week, occasional day off, sometimes twice in one day. But every session I felt the same.

Recently I cut my swimming right back, mostly due to other commitments. Now I am in the pool 3-5 times a week, 1 open water swim, weekends off swimming. Finally I have noticed some gains! I am hitting those sessions fresher, able to hold form better, able to get my forearm in particular into the right position and apply more backwards force. I am swimming quicker.

I had previously thought that as my weakest discipline and plenty of time on my hands I should be swimming all the time, I knew I was tired in sessions but I thought at some point my body would catch up and I'd suddenly start feeling stronger, it never happened.

I know there will be many that say that I should be swimming easy sessions, but for a weaker swimmer this isn't always possible, swimming is always taxing for me, it just changes speed based on how tired I am!

So, rather like the HIIT approach to cycling, cutting the miles/sessions and hitting a few select sessions hard, maybe the same approach is better for us weaker swimmers until we have built up the ability etc. to cope with the mileage.

Just my 2 pennies worth.


Your coach was prescribing 7 days a week with some 2 a dayers with an occasional day off? Of course you were tired. Good grief I'm a swim only guy and I'm 5-6 days a week at max. Typically a 6 day week will always be followed by a 5 day week. 3 hours of dry land every week too, but it's all I can take and recover. Zero bike/run training.

Was this coach aware you were also bike/run training? How long were these workouts he was giving you/total weekly yardage? Or were they shorter/technical in nature? The elite club kids do 10 swims a week with 3 dry land sessions and that is only during the summer. These kids do nothing but swim, no other sports. These are kids who are heading to major D1 programs like the University of Florida for instance.

Don't get me wrong I applaud you for your efforts you are willing to do the things 99 out of 100 triathletes won't. I think you found your answer, back off a bit that is an awful lot of swim work for a person with 2 other sports to maintain. When you say 'weaker' swimmer though I don't equate what you do with weaker swimmers. If the average triathlete I hear opining at the pool as to why they can't faster they can't say they are even putting in enough time and work to maintain fitness that was earned. I will never understand the swimmer who frets over why they don't get faster with 2 swims and 5k a week. Keep working at it sounds like you are seeing progress good luck! If your coach is astute he will have identified what YOU need to work on and prescribe accordingly.
Last edited by: tigerpaws: Aug 3, 14 6:17
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Re: Do we weaker swimmers sometimes swim too much? [Marcell_S] [ In reply to ]
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I'm not a swimmer either and when I made my own program I tried at least 4-5 times a week then new coach has given me 3 days of 3000 and I have gotten faster. I think it's because the prescribed workouts focus on my weaknesses as opposed to just swimming. Can't say I'm disappointed in only swimming 3-4 times a week!

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Re: Do we weaker swimmers sometimes swim too much? [tigerpaws] [ In reply to ]
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No, he wasn't precribing me 7 swims a week, that was off my own back. I had plenty of time and thought being in the pool all the time would help.

I've only just started working with him, he had originally sent me some sessions to do, like the 50s, before we properly started working together.

This is the first time I have worked with anyone on my swimming as its now severely holding me back in triathlon! Before it was only holding me back slightly!
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Re: Do we weaker swimmers sometimes swim too much? [Marcell_S] [ In reply to ]
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yeah, my breakthroughs in the pool have only sometimes been associated with mileage. sometimes something just 'clicks' and then i make a major leap just based on technique. on the other hand, i've found that good way to break through a plateau can be to throw on either a bunch of dryland or do a big 'block' of super-high mileage.

anyway, as the others have said, 7 days/week and the odd 2/day is a lot of swimming for a triathlete. that's more like a varsity swimmer's routine. so it's true that you might be feeling better in the pool because you're resting and consolidating your gains.

it's also true that the many triathletes spend most of their pool time training in the 'mushy middle' - doing medium-long repeats at moderate pace and with mediocre form. practicing that - even 8x/week - won't make you too much faster!

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Re: Do we weaker swimmers sometimes swim too much? [Marcell_S] [ In reply to ]
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Marcell_S wrote:
No, he wasn't precribing me 7 swims a week, that was off my own back. I had plenty of time and thought being in the pool all the time would help.

I've only just started working with him, he had originally sent me some sessions to do, like the 50s, before we properly started working together.

This is the first time I have worked with anyone on my swimming as its now severely holding me back in triathlon! Before it was only holding me back slightly!


Err. Well. Hmmm. Is this guy a swim coach with a solid pedigree of success? I guess if you feel getting swim coaching is detrimental to your triathlon pursuits and holding you back it might be a waste of time then. Not sure I have ever heard of someone getting worse with good swim coaching so maybe take a look after giving it a bit more time if you have only just started to work with him. Swim gains don't come overnight.

How long have you been swimming as in when did your first swim training start? Not when you first got in a pool for fun, but with a focus on swimming laps and a clock?
Last edited by: tigerpaws: Aug 3, 14 6:37
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Re: Do we weaker swimmers sometimes swim too much? [tigerpaws] [ In reply to ]
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I'm lost? I have only just started working with him, he wasn't the one prescribing me 7 sessions a week, I was doing that.
I started swimming about 5 years ago, but am stuck around the 23 mins for 1500.
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Re: Do we weaker swimmers sometimes swim too much? [Marcell_S] [ In reply to ]
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Marcell_S wrote:
I'm lost? I have only just started working with him, he wasn't the one prescribing me 7 sessions a week, I was doing that.
I started swimming about 5 years ago, but am stuck around the 23 mins for 1500.

Oh ok I misunderstood. "This is the first time I have worked with anyone on my swimming as its now severely holding me back in triathlon! Before it was only holding me back slightly!"

To me that said that since you are working with someone now...'as it's now severely holding me back'....as in working with someone was holding you back, but before you began working with someone you felt you were only being held back 'slightly'.

I have only had one cup of coffee so my reading comprehension must be in 2nd gear. Sorry.



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Re: Do we weaker swimmers sometimes swim too much? [tigerpaws] [ In reply to ]
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No problem!
I was implying my swimming was holding me back!
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Re: Do we weaker swimmers sometimes swim too much? [Marcell_S] [ In reply to ]
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Marcell_S wrote:
No problem!
I was implying my swimming was holding me back!


Roll with the new coach and if I can offer up one piece of advice. Once a swimmer selects a coach and does their homework there is another piece to that puzzle in my experience. If you want to get the most out of your coaching put your trust in them to get you where you want to go. Don't be afraid to set the expectations with them in exacting detail that way no one gets frustrated. It might be difficult, but try to forget what you *think* you know and trust that they actually know. I went through that with my coach about 4 years ago and I basically reformatted my hard drive for a fresh install of a new operating system. Best thing I ever did! Good luck and have fun! Sounds like you are not afraid to put the work in I have no doubts you will raise your bar and expectations.
Last edited by: tigerpaws: Aug 3, 14 6:55
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Re: Do we weaker swimmers sometimes swim too much? [tigerpaws] [ In reply to ]
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Thank you Tigerpaws.
I have complete faith in this guy, he works with some of the best athletes in the country and has said he will do everything to get me where I want to be (a sub 20 min 1500, thats all I want for christmas!)
Plus, because I am coaching his daughter in running (an elite female who can out swim and bike the whole field but hasn't nailed the run yet) it's all for free!
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Re: Do we weaker swimmers sometimes swim too much? [Marcell_S] [ In reply to ]
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Marcell_S wrote:
Thank you Tigerpaws.
I have complete faith in this guy, he works with some of the best athletes in the country and has said he will do everything to get me where I want to be (a sub 20 min 1500, thats all I want for christmas!)
Plus, because I am coaching his daughter in running (an elite female who can out swim and bike the whole field but hasn't nailed the run yet) it's all for free!

Awesome! And if you are at 23 for a 1500 you certainly are swimming well enough...it's much faster than almost every triathlete I know can muster. Of course the faster you go the tougher it is to go faster, but with a guy like your coach at the helm I'm sure you can get there. Have fun!
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Re: Do we weaker swimmers sometimes swim too much? [Marcell_S] [ In reply to ]
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Marcell_S wrote:
Thank you Tigerpaws.
I have complete faith in this guy, he works with some of the best athletes in the country and has said he will do everything to get me where I want to be (a sub 20 min 1500, thats all I want for christmas!)
Plus, because I am coaching his daughter in running (an elite female who can out swim and bike the whole field but hasn't nailed the run yet) it's all for free!


20min 1500m???? What's this "we weaker swimmers" business?

As a truly weak swimmer, I almost felt your pain until I found out you swim a 23min 1500m.

Carry on with your pity party.
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Re: Do we weaker swimmers sometimes swim too much? [mercuryvapor] [ In reply to ]
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weaker is a relative term. The guys I'm competing against are swimming 19s.
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Re: Do we weaker swimmers sometimes swim too much? [Marcell_S] [ In reply to ]
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No.

Anything else? ;-)
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Re: Do we weaker swimmers sometimes swim too much? [Francois] [ In reply to ]
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Exactly, that was the kind of comment I was after.
Ask anybody about getting faster at swimming and most will say swim more, and a few say swim harder.
Well that doesn't work if you are like me and don't have the years and years of conditioning to do it.
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Re: Do we weaker swimmers sometimes swim too much? [Marcell_S] [ In reply to ]
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Swimming more will make you faster. Period. However, that doesn't mean you should ignore exercise physiology principles.
If you've never swum over 10km a week, don't try a week of 50km. That won't work. You still need to respect some progression.
If you're whole point is to argue it's actually possible to swim too much (literally) then duh...1000km is too much for anybody. That's why
it's qualified as too much. But the reality is that the immense majority of triathletes don't swim anywhere near enough. That probably
applies to you as well. You just need to build progressively.
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Re: Do we weaker swimmers sometimes swim too much? [Francois] [ In reply to ]
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Yes, in about 5 years I'll be able to do that mileage. But now, no.
And to throw it out as swim more to swim faster as a one size fits all is nonsense.
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Re: Do we weaker swimmers sometimes swim too much? [Marcell_S] [ In reply to ]
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Then don't start a thread where you just want to hear someone who will agree with your confirmation bias.
And maybe make an effort to read what people write rather than just picking out the swim more to swim faster
without the rest of the comments. Enjoy your thread, I'm sure you'll have plenty of followers who agree with you ;-)
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Re: Do we weaker swimmers sometimes swim too much? [Francois] [ In reply to ]
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Fair enough. Maybe you should have lead with what you wrote below rather than just, no, swim more to swim faster.
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Re: Do we weaker swimmers sometimes swim too much? [Marcell_S] [ In reply to ]
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Marcell_S wrote:
weaker is a relative term. The guys I'm competing against are swimming 19s.

Those are times Juniors and U23s pull off (and the odd ex-swimmer). Did you suddenly start racing draft-legal?

If you didn't come from a swimming background, maybe it's wise not to over-reach and aim to compete with fishies.

ZONE3 - We Last Longer
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Re: Do we weaker swimmers sometimes swim too much? [Marcell_S] [ In reply to ]
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You mean like the 4th post above this one? ;-)
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Re: Do we weaker swimmers sometimes swim too much? [tessartype] [ In reply to ]
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Not over here, generally the guys I am competing against are in the 19s, low 20s at the very most as I'm trying to win and generally coming top 5 having matched or beaten them on the bike run but not been able to make back the few minutes they had on me out of the swim.
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Re: Do we weaker swimmers sometimes swim too much? [Marcell_S] [ In reply to ]
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In which case, I hear your pain but can't offer any advice. I'm also staring at an unbridgable gap in the swim between myself and former National Team triathletes. I sliced off 5 minutes in the past year, but that still leaves me minutes behind their 18-19 minute swims.

I'd find another target if I were you. Those 4 minutes will be very, very hard to close down if at all possible, and it's best to have a less frustrating goal.

ZONE3 - We Last Longer
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