Yes

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Fit Endurance Coaching - Head Coach|Facebook
USAT L1 Coach | BikeFit Certified Fitter | Contributing Writer - Triathlete Magazine | ROKA

I take the zeros out.

I want to know how many watts I'm averaging while I'm pedaling. At the end of the ride, when you upload the data to whatever software you are using, you can always look at the true average power with zeros. While riding...that number means very little to me though.

What are you actually doing with your average power data while riding?

Why do you imagine that an average power value that is wrong, is somehow better to look at than one that is correct?

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

What are you trying t accomplish with the PM.

For instance If its pacing and you live somewhere flat or with alot of short stops and starts I'd leave it on. The short rests will allow you to pedal harder in between. and including zeros will give a more accurate picture of what you can really do.

If you are pacing in areas with big climbs I'd leave them it. Including zeros that last for 15 minutes then avaeraging out on hour long climbs doesn't make much sense.

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Styrrell

Thanks, makes sense. Most of my riding is flatish, but there are a few good climbs/descents so I'll try to remember to switch for those rides..

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Coaching - Future Endurance

another noob question: smart recording? i guess for testing i should have it every second (PT only sends data every 2 seconds IIRC) but for 2x20s, pacing and the like, would smart recording be OK? im not too concerned about memory as i have a 2gb card in my 705 and the data transfer isnt through ant+ so upload speed isnt a huge concern.. hmm might just leave it on every second...

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Coaching - Future Endurance

No to smart recording and no to non-zero average power. Sure auto recording shutoff for traffic lights or longer stops is fine but don't remove the zero power values while you're actually in motion and definitely turn off Garmin smart recording which really messes with things like Normalized Power and IF, TSS, and CTL derived from NP.

If you simply want to see big power numbers, then don't include the in-motion zero data points in your averages but then you might just as well intentionally mis-calibrate your power meter so it reads high. All those zero value points contribute as micro-rest that allows you to sustain the power you do sustain, drop them out of the averages and your data isn't meaningful unless you never let off the pedals in which case the non-zero and zero averaged power is the same.

thanks Dave - thats what I needed to know

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Coaching - Future Endurance

This.

There is no rational reason to drop zeros from power average.

If you are doing a series of intervals or climbs and want to know your averages on the intervals or climbs just hit the interval/lap button to start a new average each time.

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

generally the only place non-zero avg would be useful is on the trainer. stop pedalling and the wheel stops moving. if the wheel is moving, include the data, zero or not.

I did that all the way up until last year with my LYC, it was just a personal preference. And like you said when you upload the data the zeros are there and you get your true average and TSS score anyway. WKO is where I go to analyize data, not on the LYC.

I leave out the zeros.

The way I ride the average without zeros is very close to NP. That often seems reasonable.

If I am doing hill repeats (2 hours on a 4 minute climb), I am not too interested in any individual 4 minutes, but rather on the long term average.

But I do agree that average power without zeros can be misleading.

In the terrain we have here, non zero average power is VERY close to normalized power, like amazingly close. So I have athletes display NZAP to check their pacing strategy.

Usually we know he can ride say 220 normalized watts for 1:10. Then on race day, we set his pacing strategy. 220 on hills, 215 on flats and rideable downhills. Or something similar, he can now looks at maybe halfway through to see if he nzap shows something close to what we know his sustainable normalized power is.

On a new hilly race this can be valuable information for the athlete to have. If he's done the race before or ridden the course, then we already know how his target power and normalized power match up so it isn't needed.

Do you pause your computer at stoplights or other delays? Isn't hitting pause at a stoplight effectively the same as not including the zeros when you coast downhill? Or perhaps you live in a place where you don't always have to stop like I do while riding in the Northern Virginia suburbs.

Anyone correct me here if I am wrong, but at least on Garmin devices I believe 1-sec recording is always used if a PM is present, even if you have smart recording selected.

It doesn't on my 705 but it does on my 500.

I include zeros for coasting, but do use the auto-pause feature for stop lights. Am I a dirty cheater or is that kosher?

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/kj

http://kjmcawesome.tumblr.com/

I consider it 'cheating'. You're resting so gaining an advantage from the break so include it. It's like running a marathon and excluding the time walking at aid stations. If the numbers look crap as a result then it'll incentivise you to find a ride with fewer stops :) (Or cycle harder in between!)


So question from me. I did an outdoors 20min power test today and looking at the output I noticed 5-6 drops in the data. I freewheeled once for about 1 second while grabbing a water bottle but the rest of the time I was pedal to the metal. There is one drop of 20 seconds and one drop of ~5 seconds. The others appear smaller. I want to look at the average excluding these drops. Next time I might consider turning off zeros in the average calculation to avoid this in future. Thoughts?

Also, anyone know how to remove drops from a .FIT file? If it's easy I might have a look at the results, but otherwise I'll just estimate it hit the average by 3-5 watts.

Damn. It took someone 13 months to call me a cheater for having "auto pause" on. And it would factor in walk breaks, just not when I'm stopped at a light. I figure this keeps me safer than running/riding through red lights so I'm already getting called out on Slowtwitch. I'll just make sure I don't do a power test inside the San Francisco city limits so when I brag about my inflated FTP, the extrapolation (wild-ass-guess?) will be legit.

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/kj

http://kjmcawesome.tumblr.com/

And don't forget, that timer and power meter have to stay on and be recording from start to finish. Make sure you stop for red lights and don't run them, stop for stop signs (unless in Idaho) and keep every thing running when you stop to take a shit. After all, the clock doesn't stop if you have to take a shit during a Triathlon.

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BC Don
Pain is temporary, not giving it your all lasts all Winter.