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Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists
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Today on a ride in Tucson Arizona my Jamis-Hagens Berman pro cycling team was intentionally assaulted by a man in a car. He came by our our group screaming obscenities like "Fucking cyclists get of the road" etc. He then came to the front of the group, got extremely close and THEN rammed the front left rider causing him and Tyler Wren to crash (the rider who made contact with the car is Todd Herriott of Sports Performance in Seattle). The driver then sped off from the scene, not even putting on his brake lights for a second. Luckily neither Todd or Tyler were seriously injured but they did get banged up,got some road rash, and Todd destroyed the saddle on his brand new Jamis Xenith SL.

Our director, Sebastian Alexandre, was up the road and after a quick phone call was able to intercept the car and our photographer, John Segesta, was able to get a photo of the car's plates. I called 911 and the Tucson Police arrived about 15-20 minutes later. The police took statements from every rider, got descriptions of the man, and sent detectives to his house. At the mans house detectives found the car had been washed just after the accident but still had a prominent scratch on the passenger side door. The man admitted to yelling at our group but not to hitting Todd, even accidentally.

In short, the guy is spending today in jail and is being charged by the Tucson City Prosecutor with class 3 felony Aggravated Assault (the same as if he had used a bat or gun). Apparently Tucson did not like the idea of their reputation for being a great cycling town tarnished when they saw the report of this incident on Cyclingnews.com. The gentleman in the car is looking at up to 15 years in prison and a serious criminal record.

Hopefully he will not be able to plead down his charges and this will be a serious wake up call to drivers that pull this shit. He must have been insane thinking that he could hit someone in front of 15+ witnesses and get away with it.
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Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [chase196126] [ In reply to ]
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I'm glad they got the f*cker. We need less sh*t heads driving and threatening cyclists.

I will say Tucson, while it has become more crowded and the roads suck, I still feel it's a very safe place to ride.

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Last edited by: desert dude: Feb 22, 13 15:51
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Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [chase196126] [ In reply to ]
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fucking awesome
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Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [chase196126] [ In reply to ]
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That's crazy, glad everyone is fine. I have to correct your last sentence though. "He must have been insane thinking he could hit someone and get away with it." The fact that there were 15+ witnesses just makes him stupid.
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Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [chase196126] [ In reply to ]
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Sometimes this is so appropriate ... for cowards in their cars ...




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Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [Demagogue] [ In reply to ]
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I'm glad they caught him.

Formely stef32
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Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [chase196126] [ In reply to ]
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Glad to hear that the law is doing the right thing here.
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Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [chase196126] [ In reply to ]
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Glad they got the D-bag!
Serves him right.
Hope he experiences the "bend over now" in the shower.
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Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [chase196126] [ In reply to ]
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Awesome! Odds are that he'll get a deal, or charges will be reduced. He's realistically looking at a few months in jail and early release on top. Still, jail time ought to make him rethink his priorities.

Dirtbags are everywhere. I ran into a couple. I mean real dirtbags. I'm not counting Hondas filled with teens yelling at me, or inattentive drivers talking to their kids in the back seat and drifting onto shoulder. One redneck in a giant Dodge truck tried to run me off the road on purpose. And one professional wrestler looking dude in a land yacht Chrysler convertible (WTF who buys that in the first place???!) had a ... let's say a verbal altercation with me. I was alone both times.
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Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [Dilbert] [ In reply to ]
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Hopefully he will not be able to plea down too much. He was yelling obscenities before, so it was obviously not an accident, and he left the scene of an accident as well as failing to render aid on top of his aggravated assault (AA).

From what I can see online a class 3 AA carries a minimum of 5 years in prison, with 7.5 expected, 15 max. His use of the motor vehicle counts as using a deadly weapon or instrument, so even if he gets plead down he may still get class 6 AA which carries 18 months minimum. The fact that the city prosecutor is going after him is a big deal apparently. One of the cops on the scene said that even when cops get hurt the city prosecutor rarely gets involved. He also said someone at the prosecutors office got wind of the cyclingnews article and because of this took up the case. Maybe they will use this guy as an example to show how seriously they take cyclist safety, hopefully drawing more cycling tourism to Tucson.

However this works out in the end the guy is at least spending today in jail, which is a lot more than many other incidents. I would love to see the book thrown at him, though. 10 years in FMITA prison to teach him a real lesson.
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Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [chase196126] [ In reply to ]
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You just made my weekend with that story. Glad everyone but the asshat driver will sleep safe and sound this evening. They need to throw the book at him. The swearing is one thing, but once he uses his car as a weapon, it is a whole new ball game.
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Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [chase196126] [ In reply to ]
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that's good to hear.

Good luck to your teammates in their recovery, and good luck to you in this upcoming season
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Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [chase196126] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for the update. I saw this on cyclingnews as well - didn't think I'd be reading about it here. Yes, Tucson is a mecca for cycling training for teams from all over. Not sure what the right sentence will be, but it appears the wheels are turning at least.

____________________________________
Fatigue is biochemical, not biomechanical.
- Andrew Coggan, PhD
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Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [chase196126] [ In reply to ]
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It's so refreshing to read about law enforcement doing what they're supposed to when it comes to this stuff. It seems like every time a cyclist is injured or killed by a driver here in Austin, they don't even get ticketed.
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Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [chase196126] [ In reply to ]
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Even if he gets off with minimal jail time, his prosecution will send a message to other motorists in the area. Glad your buddies weren't seriously injured.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I don't know if God exists, but it would be better for His reputation if He didn't." Jules Renard (1864 - 1910)
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Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [chase196126] [ In reply to ]
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Excellent!
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Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [chase196126] [ In reply to ]
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if he hates cyclists now, imagine how much he will hate them if he gets 15 years for this!
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Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [chase196126] [ In reply to ]
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chase196126 wrote:

However this works out in the end the guy is at least spending today in jail, which is a lot more than many other incidents. I would love to see the book thrown at him, though. 10 years in FMITA prison to teach him a real lesson.

Since no one got hurt 10 years seems pretty excessive. Anger management classes and a few months jail time is appropriate.
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Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [chase196126] [ In reply to ]
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Awesome, Great Job!! Put this worthless F??K away!!!!!!!
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Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [chase196126] [ In reply to ]
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I'm glad your team is okay, and the city prosecutor is taking this seriously. It totally baffles my mind when other cases similar to this get off with little to no criminal charges.

Would it make any difference if the driver was charged with say 15 counts of aggravated assault (one count for every cyclist in the group...or at least every cyclist that sustained an injury)? Does that increase the sentancing...or at least make it harder to plea bargin down?
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Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [tri808] [ In reply to ]
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Maybe I need to start training with a video camera as I probably will never rate a photographer out with me.
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Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [cyclops] [ In reply to ]
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cyclops wrote:
chase196126 wrote:


However this works out in the end the guy is at least spending today in jail, which is a lot more than many other incidents. I would love to see the book thrown at him, though. 10 years in FMITA prison to teach him a real lesson.


Since no one got hurt 10 years seems pretty excessive. Anger management classes and a few months jail time is appropriate.

Is this meant to be in pink font?
So, if someone shoots at you with a gun, but misses you - no harm...go to anger mgmt class?
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Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [chase196126] [ In reply to ]
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That's so freakin' awesome... Not the assault of course, but the fact that the PHX authorities appear to be taking it seriously.

Love it!


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Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [ironyman] [ In reply to ]
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ironyman wrote:
Even if he gets off with minimal jail time, his prosecution will send a message to other motorists in the area. Glad your buddies weren't seriously injured.

Even if he gets off with minimal jail time, hopefully some civil lawsuit action will be coming his way from any riders that were affected. Fuck idiots like that, they deserve to get ruined.
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Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [WelshinPhilly] [ In reply to ]
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It wasn't the driver, it was the car. We should look into banning the type of car he drove or at least limiting the amount of fuel he can put in it. That will solve the problem.

On a more serious not. Glad no body got hurt and I'm hopeful that justice is served.

_________________________________
The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design.
Last edited by: guppie58: Feb 22, 13 19:54
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Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [Mac] [ In reply to ]
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Mac wrote:
cyclops wrote:
chase196126 wrote:


However this works out in the end the guy is at least spending today in jail, which is a lot more than many other incidents. I would love to see the book thrown at him, though. 10 years in FMITA prison to teach him a real lesson.


Since no one got hurt 10 years seems pretty excessive. Anger management classes and a few months jail time is appropriate.


Is this meant to be in pink font?
So, if someone shoots at you with a gun, but misses you - no harm...go to anger mgmt class?


Shooting someone with a gun is much more likely to result in death than slamming your breaks on someone.

Now since the dent was on the side door?? That indicates the driver side swiped into the cyclist? That is much more dangerous than slamming your breaks on someone. An able bodied competitive cyclist should be able to withstand a slam on the breaks, but a side slam? That's pretty sketchy.

No doubt, this was a dirt bag act. I don't support it. What I don't support is excessive punishment compelled by emotion.
Last edited by: cyclops: Feb 22, 13 20:11
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Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [Mac] [ In reply to ]
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No doubt, that action could have easily resulted in death, the fact that no one died is fortunate but the potential of the weapon used is extremely serious, give him 10.
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Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [cyclops] [ In reply to ]
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Just to clarify what happened. I was the 2nd row back and saw everything up close and personal:

The guy in the car came past our group screaming about how we should get off the road. He then deliberately rammed the front two riders with the side of his car. He didn't slam on his brakes, he didn't come too close trying to buzz us, he turned into our lead riders to run them off the road. It was a miracle that no one was sucked under his car.

An intentional assault with a motor vehicle is no less dangerous to a cyclists life than an assault with a gun. 10 years would be entirely appropriate in this instance. A cyclist is totally at the mercy of a driver. If you try to dodge an attack by a person in a car, chances are you will crash and sustain severe injuries regardless of whether or not you make contact with the car.
Last edited by: chase196126: Feb 22, 13 21:08
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Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [chase196126] [ In reply to ]
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I saw it on CyclingNews and cringed because your roommate, Dr. Phil, is a friend. Of course I still haven't forgotten about you beating me at the VoS TT when we were 2s but I'm really glad you guys are ok.
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Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [cyclops] [ In reply to ]
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cyclops wrote:
Mac wrote:
cyclops wrote:
chase196126 wrote:


However this works out in the end the guy is at least spending today in jail, which is a lot more than many other incidents. I would love to see the book thrown at him, though. 10 years in FMITA prison to teach him a real lesson.


Since no one got hurt 10 years seems pretty excessive. Anger management classes and a few months jail time is appropriate.


Is this meant to be in pink font?
So, if someone shoots at you with a gun, but misses you - no harm...go to anger mgmt class?


Shooting someone with a gun is much more likely to result in death than slamming your breaks on someone.

Now since the dent was on the side door?? That indicates the driver side swiped into the cyclist? That is much more dangerous than slamming your breaks on someone. An able bodied competitive cyclist should be able to withstand a slam on the breaks, but a side slam? That's pretty sketchy.

No doubt, this was a dirt bag act. I don't support it. What I don't support is excessive punishment compelled by emotion.

hi lighted for you cyclops, since even in America - more people are murdered err, sorry killed with cars than guns....
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Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [racin_rusty] [ In reply to ]
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yeah - i get the assault charge and hope it sticks.

but really, if you intentionally (with clear premeditation) hit someone riding an 18-pound bike with a 2000-pound car . . . at what point do you call that attempted murder?

-mike

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http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/
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Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [chase196126] [ In reply to ]
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great work lets hope they give it to him.

see my blog http://www.ironmandanonline.com
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Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [IMD933] [ In reply to ]
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People in their cars are scary. I'm amazed everyday at the stupid sh*t people do even whenI'm in my care driving to work.

I'm glad caught him and that he is being prosecuted. Hopefully he gets "the works".


Pete Githens
Reading, PA
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Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [guppie58] [ In reply to ]
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guppie58 wrote:
It wasn't the driver, it was the car. We should look into banning the type of car he drove or at least limiting the amount of fuel he can put in it. That will solve the problem.

You and I both like ALL civil rights contained in the Bill of Rights, not just 1, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10. Does this mean we're friends now?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Speed Concept 9 (race)
Madone 5 (training)
Trek 1000 (rain/snow/sleet/monsoon)
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Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [mikegarmin4] [ In reply to ]
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As much as the cops were hassling The Shootout when I lived in Tucson, its good to hear/read this OP.

Here's hoping that we're not 'second class citizens' on the road for much longer.

M
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Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [cyclops] [ In reply to ]
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cyclops wrote:
chase196126 wrote:


However this works out in the end the guy is at least spending today in jail, which is a lot more than many other incidents. I would love to see the book thrown at him, though. 10 years in FMITA prison to teach him a real lesson.


Since no one got hurt 10 years seems pretty excessive. Anger management classes and a few months jail time is appropriate.

If you do that to a police officer on bike patrol you will get an attempted murder charge. Attacks on citizens should be treated with the same level of vigor.

Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb
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Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [chase196126] [ In reply to ]
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He must have been insane thinking that he could hit someone in front of 15+ witnesses and get away with it.


Glad they got this guy. Good to hear that the police were fully cooperative.

I find drivers routinely loose their minds when cyclists are involved.

Really? You are trying to make that pass in the other lane around a blind curve or hill, with on-coming traffic? Yes, I am going left and changing lanes. That's what the extended straight arm, that I have had out there in front of you for the last 10 seconds means. No, there is not enough room for you to squeeze through the gap, of a tight (legal) double pace line on a two lane road with on-coming traffic right there. Yes, I really am going the speed limit of 40 or 50 kmh an hour on this slight downhill. Why do you need to pass me? No, you'll get no further ahead, because there is a red-light right up ahead. Yes, despite what you are saying, bikes are allowed on the road. No, you are not anonymous in your obviously identifiable car, with a unique number on it . . . . . and so on.




Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
Last edited by: Fleck: Feb 23, 13 8:51
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Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [Duffy] [ In reply to ]
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If you do that to a police officer on bike patrol you will get an attempted murder charge. Attacks on citizens should be treated with the same level of vigor.

Agreed, but the courts and judges seem to go light on drivers who have committed serious crimes while driving - right on up to vehicular homicide. I am not sure why it is. Often, there is no criminal past record on the part of the driver, and they may even have a clean driving record( not making excuses - just trying to figure what's going through a judges head).

Any sort of sentence of this kind means driving, if they ever get their license back, will be an extraordinarily expensive affair for the rest of that persons life. Try getting a decent rate for insurance with that sort of thing on your record!







Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
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Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [chase196126] [ In reply to ]
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A cyclist is totally at the mercy of a driver. If you try to dodge an attack by a person in a car, chances are you will crash and sustain severe injuries regardless of whether or not you make contact with the car.

This is the one thing that really get's at me. Yes drivers are asses. Yes, some/many of them have no idea what they are doing. Yes even some cyclists are asses. However, do the car drivers not understand the basic physics of the situation that almost any, collision or contact between a car and a cyclist is always going to turn out far, far worse for the cyclist than the car driver. In fact, it can be catastophic and fatal for the cyclist while the car driver and even their vehicle are complete unscathed. So why the cavalier attitude then and the almost complete lack of respect from many drivers?



Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
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Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [chase196126] [ In reply to ]
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I am glad no one got hurt.

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A fine is enough. No need to ruin the guys life more than that..

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On the other hand few people commit such acts without provaction.

I was not there. I do not have knowledge of how the bicyclists were riding or what the traffic conditions were.

But I do know how some bicyclists, even professionals, ride. It is not always legal or safe. (Yes, I too have been guilty of less than perfect bicycle riding.)

It is hard to know what happened. It is impossible for the motorist to defend himself.
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Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [An Old Guy] [ In reply to ]
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Are you a complete fucking idiot? So if I'm acting like an asshole its perfectly understandable that someone tries to shoot or stab me? Cause that is exactly what happened here except the weapon was a car. How someone can be stupid enough to make the statements you just did is beyond me.

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Last edited by: TravisT: Feb 23, 13 9:28
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Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [An Old Guy] [ In reply to ]
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An Old Guy wrote:
But I do know how some bicyclists, even professionals, ride. It is not always legal or safe.


Bullshit. If this justifies drivers meting out what they see as appropriate "punishment" to other road users they see doing illegal or unsafe things, why don't we have dozens of incidents daily of drivers sideswiping and running into other vehicles and pedestrians (other than accidents)?

Like Fleck said, drivers get a sense of invincibility in their cars and don't consider the simple physics involved in doing something like this to cyclists, who these drivers consider easy targets.
Last edited by: WelshinPhilly: Feb 23, 13 10:45
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Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [WelshinPhilly] [ In reply to ]
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1. Glad there were not more serious injuries caused by this driver.
2. Glad this assh-le was caught.
3. I'll withhold my opinion on how well the Tuson legal system handels this until we see this assh-le drivers conviction / sentence /fine.
4. Not sure that An Old Guy belongs on this forum with the statements he just posted on this thread.
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Last edited by: spearit: Feb 23, 13 9:39
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Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [An Old Guy] [ In reply to ]
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Interesting perspective. It reminds me of the latest tv episode of John Stossel which highlighted the recent rise in nazi-like raids in the homes of suspected drug dealers by local law enforcement. In 100% of the raids studied, the suspect's dog was shot by police. People surveyed on the raids almost invariably didn't care about the sudpect being shot, but they all expressed shock at the dog being shot. I would assume you join with these people.

The 8th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution was adopted to preclude psychopath government officials from, say, running over a cyclist as punishment for rolling through a stop sign. I hope you're a private sector guy.

An Old Guy wrote:
I am glad no one got hurt.

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A fine is enough. No need to ruin the guys life more than that..

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On the other hand few people commit such acts without provaction.

I was not there. I do not have knowledge of how the bicyclists were riding or what the traffic conditions were.

But I do know how some bicyclists, even professionals, ride. It is not always legal or safe. (Yes, I too have been guilty of less than perfect bicycle riding.)

It is hard to know what happened. It is impossible for the motorist to defend himself.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Speed Concept 9 (race)
Madone 5 (training)
Trek 1000 (rain/snow/sleet/monsoon)
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Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [tri808] [ In reply to ]
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tri808 wrote:
I'm glad your team is okay, and the city prosecutor is taking this seriously. It totally baffles my mind when other cases similar to this get off with little to no criminal charges.


Would it make any difference if the driver was charged with say 15 counts of aggravated assault (one count for every cyclist in the group...or at least every cyclist that sustained an injury)? Does that increase the sentancing...or at least make it harder to plea bargin down?


You do realize that the bar is set by your local jury pools, right? If the guy can walk into court, ask for a trial and the jurors don't care about what he did (e.g., they hate cyclist), then the prosecutor has no leverage and pleads the case out. It is a negotiation between the defendant and the prosecutor based on what the jury is likely to do with the case...This is why I think it is funny when people get mad that cases aren't "taken seriously" - it is more likely that the local jury pools does not take the crime seriously and that is where the issue starts.
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Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [Mac] [ In reply to ]
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Mac wrote:
cyclops wrote:
chase196126 wrote:


However this works out in the end the guy is at least spending today in jail, which is a lot more than many other incidents. I would love to see the book thrown at him, though. 10 years in FMITA prison to teach him a real lesson.


Since no one got hurt 10 years seems pretty excessive. Anger management classes and a few months jail time is appropriate.


Is this meant to be in pink font?
So, if someone shoots at you with a gun, but misses you - no harm...go to anger mgmt class?

I was thinking the same thing.

Ten years *might* be a bit much. Maybe. But a few months in jail is definitely too little for deliberately hitting or trying to hit someone with a car. I'd say somewhere in the realm of a few years seems appropriate. Maybe more.


http://www.jt10000.com/
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Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [An Old Guy] [ In reply to ]
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On the other hand few people commit such acts without provaction.

Yes and no,

I agree with you that provocation can lead to some form of outrageous action on the part of another party. However, I have been on the receiving end of countless acts of stupidity, and in some cases illegal actions on the part of drivers, while all the while just minding my own business and riding respectfully and fully within the rules of the road - sharing the road as I should be. I notice these instances are on the rise( been riding for 30 years!)

Now, who's to know that, 5 minutes before a driver told me to get-the-F-off the road and cut me off as he makes a right hand turn, directly in front of me, did not have some ass-hat, other cyclist taking up the whole lane, and then spitting on the car drivers windscreen and giving him the finger, for just a minor and perhaps friendly tap on the horn. Call it delayed action from provocation. I'm not excusing the driver - that's just the reality these days.




Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
Last edited by: Fleck: Feb 23, 13 11:29
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Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
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DarkSpeedWorks wrote:
Sometimes this is so appropriate ... for cowards in their cars ...

where do i get an aero version?


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Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [zimmer5] [ In reply to ]
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hey! i didn't know biden was on slowtwitch!


zimmer5 wrote:
DarkSpeedWorks wrote:
Sometimes this is so appropriate ... for cowards in their cars ...

where do i get an aero version?



ΜΟΛΩÎ-ΛΑΒΕ
we're doomed
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Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [An Old Guy] [ In reply to ]
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An Old Guy wrote:
I am glad no one got hurt.

---

A fine is enough. No need to ruin the guys life more than that..

---

On the other hand few people commit such acts without provaction.

I was not there. I do not have knowledge of how the bicyclists were riding or what the traffic conditions were.

But I do know how some bicyclists, even professionals, ride. It is not always legal or safe. (Yes, I too have been guilty of less than perfect bicycle riding.)

It is hard to know what happened. It is impossible for the motorist to defend himself.

How is it hard to know what happened - approximately 15 witnesses were there to see what happened, and a trained prosecutor thought there was enough reliable evidence to pursue this. Given your ridiculous burden of proof would anyone ever get a penalty for doing anything?

And really, why would you choose to doubt the words of the people that saw this happen? We are a tribe that should be supporting each other. Obviously, we should not blindly back each other, but come on - I expect the ST gang to have my back in situations like this unless there is clear evidence that the cyclists were in the wrong.
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Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [chase196126] [ In reply to ]
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Read about this on Ben's twitter. Thank god no one was hurt and yea for long range photo lenses!

clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com
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Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [cyclops] [ In reply to ]
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cyclops wrote:
An able bodied competitive cyclist should be able to withstand a slam on the breaks

Man, I was 'slammed' about ten years ago but was able to stop a few inches from the back of a pickup. I was really glad I had Dura-Ace breaks because I could have crashed and caused my wheel to brake. I was lucky to get unclipped because there was nothing to brake my fall.

Even after all these years I still brake into a sweat just thinking about it.
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Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [An Old Guy] [ In reply to ]
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An Old Guy wrote:
I am glad no one got hurt.

---

A fine is enough. No need to ruin the guys life more than that..

---

On the other hand few people commit such acts without provaction.

I was not there. I do not have knowledge of how the bicyclists were riding or what the traffic conditions were.

But I do know how some bicyclists, even professionals, ride. It is not always legal or safe. (Yes, I too have been guilty of less than perfect bicycle riding.)

It is hard to know what happened. It is impossible for the motorist to defend himself.


I don't agree that the driver's actions should be lightly excused. But you raise an excellent point. From the OP: "He came by our our group screaming obscenities like "Fucking cyclists get of the road" etc."

Sideswiping a cyclist is inexcusable, and I hope the driver is appropriately punished. But, what were the circumstance that set him off? The pack of cyclists rolling through a stop sign, maybe right in front of him? Riding 4 abreast when the law requires keeping right?

There are reasons drivers hate cyclists. Often they are born out of ignorance that cyclists have a right to be on the road as much as they do. But, cyclists who flaunt traffic laws and lack common courtesy share some of the blame.



"100% of the people who confuse correlation and causation end up dying."
Last edited by: MOP_Mike: Feb 23, 13 13:24
Quote Reply
Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
DarkSpeedWorks wrote:
Sometimes this is so appropriate ... for cowards in their cars ...


No it is not , but glad the cyclist and support vehicles were able to keep their heads together and act appropriately. Hope the guy in the car gets what he deserves.

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Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [MOP_Mike] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
But, what were the circumstance that set him off? The pack of cyclists.....

Huh?! So using your logic, if I see a motorist flaunt the law, which all do at some point, it's understandable that I may get angry and use deadly force against them?! They would share in the blame for the encounter?

Last edited by: squid: Feb 23, 13 13:41
Quote Reply
Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [squid] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
squid wrote:
But, what were the circumstance that set him off? The pack of cyclists.....

Huh?! So using your logic, if I see a motorist flaunt the law, which all do at some point, it's understandable that I may get angry and use deadly force against them?! They would share in the blame for the encounter?


You misunderstood what I wrote. The word "blame" refers to "reasons drivers hate cyclists" in the same paragraph, not blame for the (alleged) assault. The driver's actions were inexcusable and I hope he is appropriately punished.

However, understanding why drivers become infuriated by cyclists can help reduce the frequency of this type of occurrence.



"100% of the people who confuse correlation and causation end up dying."
Last edited by: MOP_Mike: Feb 23, 13 13:52
Quote Reply
Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [racin_rusty] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
racin_rusty wrote:
cyclops wrote:
Mac wrote:
cyclops wrote:
chase196126 wrote:


However this works out in the end the guy is at least spending today in jail, which is a lot more than many other incidents. I would love to see the book thrown at him, though. 10 years in FMITA prison to teach him a real lesson.


Since no one got hurt 10 years seems pretty excessive. Anger management classes and a few months jail time is appropriate.


Is this meant to be in pink font?
So, if someone shoots at you with a gun, but misses you - no harm...go to anger mgmt class?


Shooting someone with a gun is much more likely to result in death than slamming your breaks on someone.

Now since the dent was on the side door?? That indicates the driver side swiped into the cyclist? That is much more dangerous than slamming your breaks on someone. An able bodied competitive cyclist should be able to withstand a slam on the breaks, but a side slam? That's pretty sketchy.

No doubt, this was a dirt bag act. I don't support it. What I don't support is excessive punishment compelled by emotion.


hi lighted for you cyclops, since even in America - more people are murdered err, sorry killed with cars than guns....

you must forgive this guy's lack of insight as he only has one eye, and that one eye got speared by Ulysses.
Quote Reply
Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [MOP_Mike] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
No it won't. Sending this guy to jail for an extended period of time and setting an example that will wake drivers up to what will happen to them if they use their car as a weapon is what will reduce these situations.

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Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [TravisT] [ In reply to ]
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TravisT wrote:
No it won't. Sending this guy to jail for an extended period of time and setting an example that will wake drivers up to what will happen to them if they use their car as a weapon is what will reduce these situations.

How many times must I repeat that I hope the driver is punished appropriately?


"100% of the people who confuse correlation and causation end up dying."
Quote Reply
Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [MOP_Mike] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Enough times until you learn that its irrelevant what set him off and you never think or talk that way again.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Madone 5 (training)
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Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [MOP_Mike] [ In reply to ]
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To clarify the scenario, I don't think anything our team was doing set this guy off, other than simply being on the road. We were riding two abreast on the right side of the white line, there was enough room on the shoulder to ride side by side without going into the lane of traffic. Our director was not behind us with his hazard lights on slowing down traffic like many teams.

You can see the shoulder in this photo: http://www.cyclingnews.com/...f-hit-and-run/253213

I did not hear the guy yell this myself, but several guys who were at the back of the group said he yelled that we should be on the bike path. Make no mistake, this guy was out to hurt us and he gave it his best try by ramming my teammates with his car.
Quote Reply
Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [MOP_Mike] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
MOP_Mike wrote:
However, understanding why drivers become infuriated by cyclists can help reduce the frequency of this type of occurrence.
Isn't this analogous to forcing women to cover up and not show any skin to prevent men from being 'turned on' and sexually assaulting the tramps and sluts walking around with their legs exposed?
Quote Reply
Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [cldtx] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
cldtx wrote:
tri808 wrote:
I'm glad your team is okay, and the city prosecutor is taking this seriously. It totally baffles my mind when other cases similar to this get off with little to no criminal charges.


Would it make any difference if the driver was charged with say 15 counts of aggravated assault (one count for every cyclist in the group...or at least every cyclist that sustained an injury)? Does that increase the sentancing...or at least make it harder to plea bargin down?


You do realize that the bar is set by your local jury pools, right? If the guy can walk into court, ask for a trial and the jurors don't care about what he did (e.g., they hate cyclist), then the prosecutor has no leverage and pleads the case out. It is a negotiation between the defendant and the prosecutor based on what the jury is likely to do with the case...This is why I think it is funny when people get mad that cases aren't "taken seriously" - it is more likely that the local jury pools does not take the crime seriously and that is where the issue starts.

Yes...I do realize that the leverage a prosecutor (or defense attorney) has is highly dependant on how they feel the jury views the case. My point was simply that if the jury feels that the defendant is guilty of aggravated assault, would it matter if the prosecutor pushed for 1 count, or 15 counts. If a conviction is likely, a defense lawyer might be able to plea one count of AA down to X months in prison...but I'm wondering what he could plea 15 counts of AA down to.

If you take a baseball bat and assault 15 people...I don't think you should get the same penalty as someone who takes the same bat and assaults just one person.
Quote Reply
Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [cyclops] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
cyclops wrote:
Shooting someone with a gun is much more likely to result in death than slamming your breaks on someone.

I'm not sure if shooting at someone is much more likely to result in death than trying to hit a cyclist with a car. Depends on a lot of things and is speculation on your part - or perhaps you have some evidence about this?

This guy did not kill, so I guess that's evidence. But people shoot other people outside w/o killing them too.


http://www.jt10000.com/
Last edited by: jt10000: Feb 23, 13 16:41
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Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [echappist] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
echappist wrote:
racin_rusty wrote:
cyclops wrote:
Mac wrote:
cyclops wrote:
chase196126 wrote:


However this works out in the end the guy is at least spending today in jail, which is a lot more than many other incidents. I would love to see the book thrown at him, though. 10 years in FMITA prison to teach him a real lesson.


Since no one got hurt 10 years seems pretty excessive. Anger management classes and a few months jail time is appropriate.


Is this meant to be in pink font?
So, if someone shoots at you with a gun, but misses you - no harm...go to anger mgmt class?


Shooting someone with a gun is much more likely to result in death than slamming your breaks on someone.

Now since the dent was on the side door?? That indicates the driver side swiped into the cyclist? That is much more dangerous than slamming your breaks on someone. An able bodied competitive cyclist should be able to withstand a slam on the breaks, but a side slam? That's pretty sketchy.

No doubt, this was a dirt bag act. I don't support it. What I don't support is excessive punishment compelled by emotion.


hi lighted for you cyclops, since even in America - more people are murdered err, sorry killed with cars than guns....


you must forgive this guy's lack of insight as he only has one eye, and that one eye got speared by Ulysses.


I rescind my previous opinion erring on the side of forgiveness for said assailant. After reading more posts it appears this guy was deranged and used his vehicle rather violently. I am just used to standard fits of road rage like having an empty beer can thrown at me so I was equating the act in light of my own experiences.
Last edited by: cyclops: Feb 23, 13 16:39
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Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [tri808] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Personally think they should just pull his license permanently. Driving should be a privilege and not a right and this guy has demonstrated he doesn't deserve the privilege of driving a car and should lose his ability to do so. Unfortunately most people view driving as a right so this will never happen
Quote Reply
Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [MOP_Mike] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
MOP_Mike wrote:
However, understanding why drivers become infuriated by cyclists can help reduce the frequency of this type of occurrence.
I agree. However I don't believe it's cyclist specific. Your either the type of driver that gets infuriated or not. I would say it's probably just easy to vent to a cyclist because they can pull alongside and let rip, once the angers flowing I guess it gets the better of some people. I also believe we have a responsibility as cyclist to be mindful of drivers and be the least amount of hindrance as possible. Some riders do seem to ride ignorantly and cause unnecessary obstruction, to be fair they probably drive with the same ignorance too.

As for this instance I am glad they got the guy. Maybe if he goes to prison he will learn what its like to have a day in the saddle, when your sore the next day ;)
Quote Reply
Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [gregf83] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
gregf83 wrote:
MOP_Mike wrote:
However, understanding why drivers become infuriated by cyclists can help reduce the frequency of this type of occurrence.
Isn't this analogous to forcing women to cover up and not show any skin to prevent men from being 'turned on' and sexually assaulting the tramps and sluts walking around with their legs exposed?


No.

Civil behavior on public roads requires courtesy and obeying traffic laws by all. Those that disregard these tenets infuriate others, whether they're drivers, cyclists, or pedestrians.

Skimpy clothing is not illegal. Blowing stop signs or not keeping right (in places) is. (Not that clothing, stop signs, or keeping right is an issue in this particular case.)

Of course I don't believe that scantily-clad women are responsible should they be assaulted. Nor do I believe that cyclists are responsible when they are. But, cyclists as a group do bear some responsibility for infuriating drivers. That does not imply that being infuriated justifies assault.

I'm a cyclist too. I've ridden tens of thousands of miles on public roads in the US and had my share of honks, rude comments, and buzz by's. I get it. But I've also seen lots of dumb-ass riding by cyclists that fuels driver animosity towards us. This we-got-to-stick-together-it's-us-against-the-drivers tribe mentality is counter productive.

We're really looking at two separate issues as this thread has diverged:

1) This driver (assuming the information provided so far is accurate) assaulted a group of cyclists and should be punished for his actions.

2) Cyclists in general, not necessarily in this particular case, aren't doing themselves any favors when they ride irresponsibly/illegally/discourteously.

Some on this thread have conflated these two issues and/or have misunderstood my posts here.


"100% of the people who confuse correlation and causation end up dying."
Last edited by: MOP_Mike: Feb 23, 13 17:08
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Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [MOP_Mike] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
MOP_Mike wrote:
We're really looking at two separate issues as this thread has diverged:

1) This driver (assuming the information provided so far is accurate) assaulted a group of cyclists and should be punished for his actions.

2) Cyclists in general, not necessarily in this particular case, aren't doing themselves any favors when they ride irresponsibly/illegally/discourteously.

Some on this thread have conflated these two issues and/or have misunderstood my posts here.
You raised the point that we should take the time to understand what behaviour of ours might be irritating a deranged, irrational individual. I'm obviously paraphrasing a little, but I don't think we need to do anything other than put the dirtbags in jail. All motorists roll through stop signs just like cyclists, but for some reason this irritates many drivers. Most just bitch about it and don't actually try and kill or maim the cyclists.

Sure some cyclists could improve their riding habits as could most drivers. Focusing on cyclist's behaviour in situations as described by the OP is fruitless and unnecessary in my opinion.
Quote Reply
Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [gregf83] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
gregf83 wrote:
MOP_Mike wrote:
We're really looking at two separate issues as this thread has diverged:

1) This driver (assuming the information provided so far is accurate) assaulted a group of cyclists and should be punished for his actions.

2) Cyclists in general, not necessarily in this particular case, aren't doing themselves any favors when they ride irresponsibly/illegally/discourteously.

Some on this thread have conflated these two issues and/or have misunderstood my posts here.
You raised the point that we should take the time to understand what behaviour of ours might be irritating a deranged, irrational individual.

No, I raised that point that we should consider that our behavior fuels animosity towards us by many drivers. This particular driver should get what's coming to him

I'm obviously paraphrasing a little, but I don't think we need to do anything other than put the dirtbags in jail.

I agree. But what of the honks, rude comments, buzz-by's etc.? I'm sure you don't think those drivers should be jailed too. Here is where courteous riding can help us on the roads.

All motorists roll through stop signs just like cyclists, but for some reason this irritates many drivers. Most just bitch about it and don't actually try and kill or maim the cyclists.

I'd wager that cyclist blow stop signs more often than drivers do. (Though, here in Idaho, it's actually legal for cyclists to treat stop signs as yield signs. But sadly, many drivers are unaware of this law and get pissed at us anyway...)

Sure some cyclists could improve their riding habits as could most drivers. Focusing on cyclist's behaviour in situations as described by the OP is fruitless and unnecessary in my opinion.

I'm not "focusing" on our behavior in the context of this incident. As I mentioned, the thread has really diverged into two topics.


"100% of the people who confuse correlation and causation end up dying."
Last edited by: MOP_Mike: Feb 23, 13 17:24
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Post deleted by mikegarmin4 [ In reply to ]
Last edited by: mikegarmin4: Feb 23, 13 17:34
Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [gregf83] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
+1
gregf83 wrote:
MOP_Mike wrote:
We're really looking at two separate issues as this thread has diverged:

1) This driver (assuming the information provided so far is accurate) assaulted a group of cyclists and should be punished for his actions.

2) Cyclists in general, not necessarily in this particular case, aren't doing themselves any favors when they ride irresponsibly/illegally/discourteously.

Some on this thread have conflated these two issues and/or have misunderstood my posts here.
You raised the point that we should take the time to understand what behaviour of ours might be irritating a deranged, irrational individual. I'm obviously paraphrasing a little, but I don't think we need to do anything other than put the dirtbags in jail. All motorists roll through stop signs just like cyclists, but for some reason this irritates many drivers. Most just bitch about it and don't actually try and kill or maim the cyclists.

Sure some cyclists could improve their riding habits as could most drivers. Focusing on cyclist's behaviour in situations as described by the OP is fruitless and unnecessary in my opinion.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Speed Concept 9 (race)
Madone 5 (training)
Trek 1000 (rain/snow/sleet/monsoon)
Quote Reply
Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [gregf83] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
"All motorists roll through stop signs just like cyclists",
"Sure some cyclists could improve their riding habits as could most drivers"

Here we go again.
The old spiel of finger-pointing and generalization to justify/defend ones own misbehavior.

And to save you a post:
Yes, I have made judgement calls to roll stop signs and to speed, but I don't use others as an excuse for my own occasional poor behavior.

And I proud myself to follow the law, obey signage and go the speed limit most of the time when operating a vehicle.

So speak for yourself, man up to your digressions and leave others out of it!







Quote Reply
Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [mikegarmin4] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
At least twice each season, some driver deliberately tries to kill me on the road while riding. Most commonly, they buzz me at 50mph + or they throw something at me. I don't think that they appreciate that they could literally kill me. Perhaps they think of me as something subhuman. I have never reported anyone, in thinking about, maybe I should start. This kind of insane road rage on the part of drivers is certainly not representative of most drivers, but it's not exactly uncommon either. Its most likely the same small group of jerks who do this kind of stuff repeatedly, maybe getting one off the road will literally save someone's life.
Quote Reply
Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [hiro11] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I am compiling a series of videos entitled The best of Near Misses. Im setting up a youtube channel to post my gopro videos of near misses. Before it goes live, I want to gather some more vids. I only have 2 good ones so far. Being in the NY area, I have many a $$ holes to profile. My goal is to get license plate numbers published. Unfortunately, even though the cameras are 1080p, it's only 30fps I think, so it's not smooth enough to capture plates. I hear the new cam has higher fps, but I just bought mine this summer. Not going to shell out another 600 for 2 more cams.

I hope other ST'ers, including yourself, do the same. If nobody beats me to it, I'm hoping to have it up this summer.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Speed Concept 9 (race)
Madone 5 (training)
Trek 1000 (rain/snow/sleet/monsoon)
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Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [windschatten] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
whoosh.
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Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [chase196126] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I hope he gets every bit of what he deserves.
Quote Reply
Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [MOP_Mike] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
MOP_Mike wrote:
gregf83 wrote:
MOP_Mike wrote:
However, understanding why drivers become infuriated by cyclists can help reduce the frequency of this type of occurrence.
Isn't this analogous to forcing women to cover up and not show any skin to prevent men from being 'turned on' and sexually assaulting the tramps and sluts walking around with their legs exposed?


No.

Civil behavior on public roads requires courtesy and obeying traffic laws by all. Those that disregard these tenets infuriate others, whether they're drivers, cyclists, or pedestrians.

Skimpy clothing is not illegal. Blowing stop signs or not keeping right (in places) is. (Not that clothing, stop signs, or keeping right is an issue in this particular case.)

Of course I don't believe that scantily-clad women are responsible should they be assaulted. Nor do I believe that cyclists are responsible when they are. But, cyclists as a group do bear some responsibility for infuriating drivers. That does not imply that being infuriated justifies assault.

I'm a cyclist too. I've ridden tens of thousands of miles on public roads in the US and had my share of honks, rude comments, and buzz by's. I get it. But I've also seen lots of dumb-ass riding by cyclists that fuels driver animosity towards us. This we-got-to-stick-together-it's-us-against-the-drivers tribe mentality is counter productive.

We're really looking at two separate issues as this thread has diverged:

1) This driver (assuming the information provided so far is accurate) assaulted a group of cyclists and should be punished for his actions.

2) Cyclists in general, not necessarily in this particular case, aren't doing themselves any favors when they ride irresponsibly/illegally/discourteously.

Some on this thread have conflated these two issues and/or have misunderstood my posts here.

A majority of cars I see on the highway speed sometimes. Almost every pedestrian I know jaywalks sometimes.

So can we just point out that everytime a pedestrian gets hit by a car that they really aren't doing themselves any favors by jaywalking at other times. And maybe since so may drives seem to speed really they shouldn't complain so much when they have an accident, even if it's not their "fault." Really they're not doing themselves any favors by breaking the law so much.


http://www.jt10000.com/
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Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [Bmanners] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Bmanners wrote:
DarkSpeedWorks wrote:
Sometimes this is so appropriate ... for cowards in their cars ...



No it is not , but glad the cyclist and support vehicles were able to keep their heads together and act appropriately. Hope the guy in the car gets what he deserves.

Regarding the part you wrote (bolded by me): the problem is, both you and I know that never happens to the psychopaths behind the wheel. They nearly always get off with little more than a slap on the wrist. While the guys or gals on bikes end up paralyzed for life, or on a long forced sleep six feet under ...

Advanced Aero TopTube Storage for Road, Gravel, & Tri...ZeroSlip & Direct-mount, made in the USA.
DarkSpeedWorks.com.....Reviews.....Insta.....Facebook

--
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Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [mikegarmin4] [ In reply to ]
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Turn the camera down to 720p resolution and you should be able to get 60fps, at least thats what mine can do. 720p should be sufficient in terms of resolution to capture a license number I would think.
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Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [cyclops] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
So deliberately driving into a group of cyclists with your motor vehicle, having harassed them beforehand, and then driving away = anger management class? Maybe on planet road rage, but for the rest of us, not so much. Try to remember that you only own the vehicle you drive, not the road.

Res Firma Mitescere Nescit
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Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [chase196126] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Thats awesome, good to hear you dealt with the problem properly!

http://stuartwalpole.blogspot.com/
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Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [HXB] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
HXB wrote:
Turn the camera down to 720p resolution and you should be able to get 60fps, at least thats what mine can do. 720p should be sufficient in terms of resolution to capture a license number I would think.

Sweet. I just noticed that. Much smoother. Thanks.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Speed Concept 9 (race)
Madone 5 (training)
Trek 1000 (rain/snow/sleet/monsoon)
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Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [chase196126] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
http://www.foxnews.com/...d-death-lawyer-says/

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Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [chase196126] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Terrible. Hope this gets a lot of press



Boiler Up!
Quote Reply
Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [squid] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
squid wrote:
But, what were the circumstance that set him off? The pack of cyclists.....

Huh?! So using your logic, if I see a motorist flaunt the law, which all do at some point, it's understandable that I may get angry and use deadly force against them?! They would share in the blame for the encounter?

You were not present. You have no personal knowledge that the driver was at fault. That is the problem. We only have a story told by one side.

---

Just for general information. I was hit by and left by the side of the road by a motorist. For a long time I wanted him punished. But I got over it.
Quote Reply
Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [An Old Guy] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
An Old Guy wrote:
squid wrote:
But, what were the circumstance that set him off? The pack of cyclists.....

Huh?! So using your logic, if I see a motorist flaunt the law, which all do at some point, it's understandable that I may get angry and use deadly force against them?! They would share in the blame for the encounter?


You were not present. You have no personal knowledge that the driver was at fault. That is the problem. We only have a story told by one side.
If we find out that one of the cyclists was packing heat and they pulled out their gun and pointed it at the driver (hey, this is America), then it's going to put a different light on this incident.

But I've got to think the more likely scenario is that the driver was a jerk and he deserves to be punished.

"Human existence is based upon two pillars: Compassion and knowledge. Compassion without knowledge is ineffective; Knowledge without compassion is inhuman." Victor Weisskopf.
Quote Reply
Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [An Old Guy] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
There can be no justification for running over cyclists except self defense. Areyou saying that was a possibility here? This automobile driver's life was threatened by a wild pack of pro cyclists?

You're playing devil's advocate to an untenable level.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Madone 5 (training)
Trek 1000 (rain/snow/sleet/monsoon)
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Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [mikegarmin4] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
mikegarmin4 wrote:
There can be no justification for running over cyclists except self defense. Areyou saying that was a possibility here? This automobile driver's life was threatened by a wild pack of pro cyclists?

You're playing devil's advocate to an untenable level.
Commonly referred to as trolling...
Quote Reply
Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [An Old Guy] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
An Old Guy wrote:
squid wrote:
But, what were the circumstance that set him off? The pack of cyclists.....

Huh?! So using your logic, if I see a motorist flaunt the law, which all do at some point, it's understandable that I may get angry and use deadly force against them?! They would share in the blame for the encounter?


You were not present. You have no personal knowledge that the driver was at fault. That is the problem. We only have a story told by one side.

---

Just for general information. I was hit by and left by the side of the road by a motorist. For a long time I wanted him punished. But I got over it.

You are the same poster that tried to argue that the driver in Colorado that was honking his horn for minutes wasn't wrong and the cyclists were in the wrong despite reading the actual law that I posted proving you wrong. You have zero credibility on this board. Please do the board a favor and go away.
Quote Reply
Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [trimick] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
trimick wrote:
An Old Guy wrote:
squid wrote:
But, what were the circumstance that set him off? The pack of cyclists.....

Huh?! So using your logic, if I see a motorist flaunt the law, which all do at some point, it's understandable that I may get angry and use deadly force against them?! They would share in the blame for the encounter?


You were not present. You have no personal knowledge that the driver was at fault. That is the problem. We only have a story told by one side.

---

Just for general information. I was hit by and left by the side of the road by a motorist. For a long time I wanted him punished. But I got over it.

You are the same poster that tried to argue that the driver in Colorado that was honking his horn for minutes wasn't wrong and the cyclists were in the wrong despite reading the actual law that I posted proving you wrong. You have zero credibility on this board. Please do the board a favor and go away.

I just read the thread you referenced. This guy has an uncanny knack for being wrong on simple issues, and he's a master at attempting and failing at doublespeak to avoid fessing up to his ignorance. I didn't know he had priors. I'm going to ignore going forward. An anti-bike guy on a tri website, who rides 1/2 mile a day...less than I walk my dog. Not worth it.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Speed Concept 9 (race)
Madone 5 (training)
Trek 1000 (rain/snow/sleet/monsoon)
Quote Reply
Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [mikegarmin4] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
mikegarmin4 wrote:
trimick wrote:
An Old Guy wrote:
squid wrote:
But, what were the circumstance that set him off? The pack of cyclists.....

Huh?! So using your logic, if I see a motorist flaunt the law, which all do at some point, it's understandable that I may get angry and use deadly force against them?! They would share in the blame for the encounter?


You were not present. You have no personal knowledge that the driver was at fault. That is the problem. We only have a story told by one side.

---

Just for general information. I was hit by and left by the side of the road by a motorist. For a long time I wanted him punished. But I got over it.


You are the same poster that tried to argue that the driver in Colorado that was honking his horn for minutes wasn't wrong and the cyclists were in the wrong despite reading the actual law that I posted proving you wrong. You have zero credibility on this board. Please do the board a favor and go away.


I just read the thread you referenced. This guy has an uncanny knack for being wrong on simple issues, and he's a master at attempting and failing at doublespeak to avoid fessing up to his ignorance. I didn't know he had priors. I'm going to ignore going forward. An anti-bike guy on a tri website, who rides 1/2 mile a day...less than I walk my dog. Not worth it.

I don't understand why he doesn't just admit that he is wrong. He is wrong on this thread just like he was wrong on the earlier thread, but he keep trying to argue his point. I don't understand people like him. Old Dude grow up and admit that you are wrong.
Quote Reply
Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [PhilDBasket] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
PhilDBasket wrote:

Man, I was 'slammed' about ten years ago but was able to stop a few inches from the back of a pickup. I was really glad I had Dura-Ace breaks because I could have crashed and caused my wheel to brake. I was lucky to get unclipped because there was nothing to brake my fall.

Even after all these years I still brake into a sweat just thinking about it.

You're lucky you didn't loose control and hit the back of the truck. The driver must have had a screw lose.

Brad

3SIXTY5cycling.com
Quote Reply
Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [An Old Guy] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
An Old Guy wrote:
You were not present. You have no personal knowledge that the driver was at fault. That is the problem. We only have a story told by one side.

In pretty much every civilized jurisdiction, private citizens aren't allowed to use force against one another unless there is an immanent threat. As Alvin said, unless one of the cyclists was aiming a gun at the driver of the truck I can't really think of any scenario where a cyclist would be able to pose a meaningful threat that would justify actively forcing them off the road. Even at full downhill speed, a 150-200lbs bike+rider isn't going to be able to produce enough force to take a 1.5-2 tonne truck off its line. If you can propose a situation where that was the case, I'd certainly be interested to hear it.

An Old Guy wrote:
But, what were the circumstance that set him off?

Even if something did happen up the road, that is patently irrelevant to the situation here. If I was driving my car and another car cut me off, then a mile down the road I pulled ahead and forced him into a ditch the former incident wouldn't have any bearing on my case. The law doesn't allow for vengeance, so whether someone did something to make me 'angry' doesn't really come into play. The moment their actions ceased to threaten my life, I lost any right to take direct action against them. You can swear at them and give them the finger if you'd like, and if they've broken the law you can call the police, but private individuals don't have the right to dole out punishment. The type of people who get violent just because someone made them angry are exactly the type that should be segregated from society - not to punish them, but to prevent them from killing the next person that peeves them off.

Naturally, figuring out what sets people off is important to consider in avoiding scenarios like this in the future, but it has nothing to do with dealing with this particular case. Doing things that are discourteous creates a bad image for cyclists and it makes it harder for all of us, but it is never a justification for violent reactions. It goes the other way as well - if some car cuts you off, you don't have the right to take a U-Lock to their rear windscreen when you catch up to them at a traffic light.
Quote Reply
Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [tsapiano] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
HI McDonough did time in the Maricopa County facility. Twice. He was a repeat Oh fender.
Quote Reply
Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [trimick] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
trimick wrote:
mikegarmin4 wrote:
trimick wrote:
An Old Guy wrote:
squid wrote:
But, what were the circumstance that set him off? The pack of cyclists.....

Huh?! So using your logic, if I see a motorist flaunt the law, which all do at some point, it's understandable that I may get angry and use deadly force against them?! They would share in the blame for the encounter?


You were not present. You have no personal knowledge that the driver was at fault. That is the problem. We only have a story told by one side.

---

Just for general information. I was hit by and left by the side of the road by a motorist. For a long time I wanted him punished. But I got over it.


You are the same poster that tried to argue that the driver in Colorado that was honking his horn for minutes wasn't wrong and the cyclists were in the wrong despite reading the actual law that I posted proving you wrong. You have zero credibility on this board. Please do the board a favor and go away.


I just read the thread you referenced. This guy has an uncanny knack for being wrong on simple issues, and he's a master at attempting and failing at doublespeak to avoid fessing up to his ignorance. I didn't know he had priors. I'm going to ignore going forward. An anti-bike guy on a tri website, who rides 1/2 mile a day...less than I walk my dog. Not worth it.


I don't understand why he doesn't just admit that he is wrong. He is wrong on this thread just like he was wrong on the earlier thread, but he keep trying to argue his point. I don't understand people like him. Old Dude grow up and admit that you are wrong.


God smites a kitten every time an ignoramous confesses to his/her ignorance. You don't want kittens to die, do you?
Quote Reply
Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [echappist] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
echappist wrote:
God smites a kitten every time an ignoramous confesses to his/her ignorance. You don't want kittens to die, do you?

That depends. Perhaps the kittens did something really bad to make god angry.
Quote Reply
Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [cyclops] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
cyclops wrote:
[

Since no one got hurt 10 years seems pretty excessive. Anger management classes and a few months jail time is appropriate.


Do you have children? If they were out riding their bikes and some guy drove up, yelled profanities at them and then hit one of them with his car, do you think a 10 year sentence would be too much?

What do you think are the odds this guy has never done anything like this before? Sounds like a complete lunatic. We are lucky he was apprehended before he could do serious harm.

Five to ten years sounds pretty fair to me. It is only perhaps luck that somebody was not seriously injured.
Quote Reply
Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [chase196126] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
chase196126 wrote:
He also said someone at the prosecutors office got wind of the cyclingnews article and because of this took up the case. Maybe they will use this guy as an example to show how seriously they take cyclist safety, hopefully drawing more cycling tourism to Tucson.

You know what? Good idea on their part! I honestly am more likely to go to Tucson now, knowing that the entire town government supports safety.

___________________________________
MS: Exercise Science
Your speed matters a lot, sometimes you need to be very fast, where sometimes you need to breakdown your speed.
Quote Reply
Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [An Old Guy] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
An Old Guy wrote:
You were not present. You have no personal knowledge that the driver was at fault. That is the problem. We only have a story told by one side.
Sorry if your taking a hammering here OG.

I believe it fair to argue that we do have multiple sides to the story. Presumably the driver said his piece to the Tuscon Police, yet they still considered the evidence enough to proceed with charges.
Quote Reply
Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [mikegarmin4] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
mikegarmin4 wrote:
Interesting perspective. It reminds me of the latest tv episode of John Stossel which highlighted the recent rise in nazi-like raids in the homes of suspected drug dealers by local law enforcement. In 100% of the raids studied, the suspect's dog was shot by police. People surveyed on the raids almost invariably didn't care about the sudpect being shot, but they all expressed shock at the dog being shot. I would assume you join with these people.

The 8th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution was adopted to preclude psychopath government officials from, say, running over a cyclist as punishment for rolling through a stop sign. I hope you're a private sector guy.

An Old Guy wrote:
I am glad no one got hurt.

---

A fine is enough. No need to ruin the guys life more than that..

---

On the other hand few people commit such acts without provaction.

I was not there. I do not have knowledge of how the bicyclists were riding or what the traffic conditions were.

But I do know how some bicyclists, even professionals, ride. It is not always legal or safe. (Yes, I too have been guilty of less than perfect bicycle riding.)

It is hard to know what happened. It is impossible for the motorist to defend himself.

That is a silly statement. "An Old Guy" made an idiotic statement. But, why the hell shouldn't someone be shocked about a cop shooting a poor dog because his owner warranted a house raiding? A dog is murdered because some piece of shit is selling a bit of drugs... As long as the guy was not innocent, HELL yes I am more worried about a dog being murdered than a drug dealer who has his house raided and is shot because he threatened the police officer's life... Or in your fantasy is the dealer innocent and was reaching for gum or yawning??
Quote Reply
Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [mattbk] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
You're reading into it too much. The reference to the raids was made in order to draw a parallel between 1) Old Guy's blasé attitude toward a cyclist being run over because in his mind, the cyclist had some culpability in setting off the driver, and 2) people's blasé attitude toward gestapo-like raids because, as with the cyclist, the dealers had some culpability in dealing. Whether the police shot the suspects in self-defense or not, I never considered. The people surveyed were never asked whether the particular shootings were justified. It's all about the attitude toward perceived culpability...if you are not sin-free, you deserve anything that comes your way.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Speed Concept 9 (race)
Madone 5 (training)
Trek 1000 (rain/snow/sleet/monsoon)
Last edited by: mikegarmin4: Feb 25, 13 7:34
Quote Reply
Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [mikegarmin4] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Ok, I understand your intent. I agreed with your ideals, just not the parallel using the dog scenario. I whole heartedly disagree with "an old guy"s perspective, and while agreeing with your ideals, very much disagree with the scenario you used, as I couldn't care less about the drug dealer (unless this turned out to be a wrongful death/unwarranted raid...has happened before..), but am upset with the canine casualty. I see the dog and the cyclists as the ultimate victims in these two scenarios...
Quote Reply
Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [An Old Guy] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
An Old Guy wrote:
squid wrote:
But, what were the circumstance that set him off? The pack of cyclists.....

Huh?! So using your logic, if I see a motorist flaunt the law, which all do at some point, it's understandable that I may get angry and use deadly force against them?! They would share in the blame for the encounter?


You were not present. You have no personal knowledge that the driver was at fault. That is the problem. We only have a story told by one side.

---

Just for general information. I was hit by and left by the side of the road by a motorist. For a long time I wanted him punished. But I got over it.

I'm not sure what you're responding to. Maybe the voices in your head. I was commenting on MOP's logic, not the veracity of the OP's statement
Quote Reply
Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [mattbk] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
mattbk wrote:
mikegarmin4 wrote:
Interesting perspective. It reminds me of the latest tv episode of John Stossel which highlighted the recent rise in nazi-like raids in the homes of suspected drug dealers by local law enforcement. In 100% of the raids studied, the suspect's dog was shot by police. People surveyed on the raids almost invariably didn't care about the sudpect being shot, but they all expressed shock at the dog being shot. I would assume you join with these people.

The 8th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution was adopted to preclude psychopath government officials from, say, running over a cyclist as punishment for rolling through a stop sign. I hope you're a private sector guy.

An Old Guy wrote:
I am glad no one got hurt.

---

A fine is enough. No need to ruin the guys life more than that..

---

On the other hand few people commit such acts without provaction.

I was not there. I do not have knowledge of how the bicyclists were riding or what the traffic conditions were.

But I do know how some bicyclists, even professionals, ride. It is not always legal or safe. (Yes, I too have been guilty of less than perfect bicycle riding.)

It is hard to know what happened. It is impossible for the motorist to defend himself.


That is a silly statement. "An Old Guy" made an idiotic statement. But, why the hell shouldn't someone be shocked about a cop shooting a poor dog because his owner warranted a house raiding? A dog is murdered because some piece of shit is selling a bit of drugs... As long as the guy was not innocent, HELL yes I am more worried about a dog being murdered than a drug dealer who has his house raided and is shot because he threatened the police officer's life... Or in your fantasy is the dealer innocent and was reaching for gum or yawning??

While I'd rather see them tranquilize or otherwise incapacitate the dog, I can understand the need. The cops have no guarantee that the dog isn't attack trained, and I'd rather see the dog shot than a cop torn up.

John



Top notch coaching: Francois and Accelerate3 | Follow on Twitter: LifetimeAthlete |
Quote Reply
Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [mikegarmin4] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
mikegarmin4 wrote:
Old Guy's blasé attitude toward a cyclist being run over because in his mind, the cyclist had some culpability in setting off the driver,

Never said the bicyclists did anything wrong. All I said was we were not there and have no idea of what happened.

I have seen bicyclists, racers, amateurs and pros riding on the road. They fall down. Without any help they fall down. They even knock each other down. Sometimes riding alone they fall off the road and die. They don't make a big deal out of a bit of road rash or even broken bones. But if a bicyclist is inconvenienced and there is a car within a mile - the driver is at fault and needs to be punished.

You get your opinions. I get mine. With your opinions, I would prefer for you to not ride near me.

---

As I recall following too close is against the law. Maybe we should put bicyclists who follow to closely in jail.

Obstruction of traffic is when you are proceding at less than the posted speed and 5 vehicles are behind you. At least that is the view of the courts near me. By that definition the group was obstructing traffic - themselves, and had some obligations.

So now we have traffic violations. The bicyclist who told this story admitted that the bicyclists were violating these laws. I bet that is their practice - they simply ignore the law when they are out riding.

I don't mind the law ignoring bicyclists ignoring the law, but to thinnk they are blameless is just wrong.
Quote Reply
Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [Devlin] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Devlin wrote:
mattbk wrote:
mikegarmin4 wrote:
Interesting perspective. It reminds me of the latest tv episode of John Stossel which highlighted the recent rise in nazi-like raids in the homes of suspected drug dealers by local law enforcement. In 100% of the raids studied, the suspect's dog was shot by police. People surveyed on the raids almost invariably didn't care about the sudpect being shot, but they all expressed shock at the dog being shot. I would assume you join with these people.

The 8th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution was adopted to preclude psychopath government officials from, say, running over a cyclist as punishment for rolling through a stop sign. I hope you're a private sector guy.

An Old Guy wrote:
I am glad no one got hurt.

---

A fine is enough. No need to ruin the guys life more than that..

---

On the other hand few people commit such acts without provaction.

I was not there. I do not have knowledge of how the bicyclists were riding or what the traffic conditions were.

But I do know how some bicyclists, even professionals, ride. It is not always legal or safe. (Yes, I too have been guilty of less than perfect bicycle riding.)

It is hard to know what happened. It is impossible for the motorist to defend himself.


That is a silly statement. "An Old Guy" made an idiotic statement. But, why the hell shouldn't someone be shocked about a cop shooting a poor dog because his owner warranted a house raiding? A dog is murdered because some piece of shit is selling a bit of drugs... As long as the guy was not innocent, HELL yes I am more worried about a dog being murdered than a drug dealer who has his house raided and is shot because he threatened the police officer's life... Or in your fantasy is the dealer innocent and was reaching for gum or yawning??


While I'd rather see them tranquilize or otherwise incapacitate the dog, I can understand the need. The cops have no guarantee that the dog isn't attack trained, and I'd rather see the dog shot than a cop torn up.

John

They chose their career. It is not an easy one. Why stop at the dog? Why not kill everything. The other people in the house could be bodyguards. I'd rather see the cops use methods that don't require them to kill a dog because they want to bust some low level asshole. The dog(s) in question were not shot because a hostage was being rescued where time was of the essence. What if you are the dog? Rather see yourself shot opposed to the cop worrying about whether you have attack skills? There are many cases where dogs are shot for ease. I have seen in my old apartment complex. Plenty of cases out there where there was no real cause, just an asshole or a pussy...
Quote Reply
Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [Bone Idol] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Bone Idol wrote:
echappist wrote:

God smites a kitten every time an ignoramous confesses to his/her ignorance. You don't want kittens to die, do you?


That depends. Perhaps the kittens did something really bad to make god angry.

According to An Old Guy, the kittens need to just 'get over' being smote.

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
Quote Reply
Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [An Old Guy] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
An Old Guy wrote:
mikegarmin4 wrote:
Old Guy's blasé attitude toward a cyclist being run over because in his mind, the cyclist had some culpability in setting off the driver,


Never said the bicyclists did anything wrong. All I said was we were not there and have no idea of what happened.

I have seen bicyclists, racers, amateurs and pros riding on the road. They fall down. Without any help they fall down. They even knock each other down. Sometimes riding alone they fall off the road and die. They don't make a big deal out of a bit of road rash or even broken bones. But if a bicyclist is inconvenienced and there is a car within a mile - the driver is at fault and needs to be punished.

You get your opinions. I get mine. With your opinions, I would prefer for you to not ride near me.

---

As I recall following too close is against the law. Maybe we should put bicyclists who follow to closely in jail.

Obstruction of traffic is when you are proceding at less than the posted speed and 5 vehicles are behind you. At least that is the view of the courts near me. By that definition the group was obstructing traffic - themselves, and had some obligations.

So now we have traffic violations. The bicyclist who told this story admitted that the bicyclists were violating these laws. I bet that is their practice - they simply ignore the law when they are out riding.

I don't mind the law ignoring bicyclists ignoring the law, but to thinnk they are blameless is just wrong.


Now you're just making shit up to support your "argument".

OP has already stated that they were riding TO THE RIGHT of the white line, in a wide shoulder - not obstructing this driver, and certainly not obstructing more than this "5 vehicle" threshold you reference. http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...post=4441201#4441201
(I know - one side of the story, yada yada)

As others have mentioned, the fact that the cops saw enough in this to press charges (and let's not forget this douchenozzle was found attempting to clean the evidence off his vehicle) speaks volumes.
Last edited by: WelshinPhilly: Feb 25, 13 11:29
Quote Reply
Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [An Old Guy] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
An Old Guy wrote:
mikegarmin4 wrote:
Old Guy's blasé attitude toward a cyclist being run over because in his mind, the cyclist had some culpability in setting off the driver,


Never said the bicyclists did anything wrong. All I said was we were not there and have no idea of what happened.

I have seen bicyclists, racers, amateurs and pros riding on the road. They fall down. Without any help they fall down. They even knock each other down. Sometimes riding alone they fall off the road and die. They don't make a big deal out of a bit of road rash or even broken bones. But if a bicyclist is inconvenienced and there is a car within a mile - the driver is at fault and needs to be punished.

You get your opinions. I get mine. With your opinions, I would prefer for you to not ride near me.

---

As I recall following too close is against the law. Maybe we should put bicyclists who follow to closely in jail.

Obstruction of traffic is when you are proceding at less than the posted speed and 5 vehicles are behind you. At least that is the view of the courts near me. By that definition the group was obstructing traffic - themselves, and had some obligations.

So now we have traffic violations. The bicyclist who told this story admitted that the bicyclists were violating these laws. I bet that is their practice - they simply ignore the law when they are out riding.

I don't mind the law ignoring bicyclists ignoring the law, but to thinnk they are blameless is just wrong.

You are completely making shit up.

-------------
Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
Instagram • Facebook
Quote Reply
Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [An Old Guy] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
An Old Guy wrote:
mikegarmin4 wrote:
Old Guy's blasé attitude toward a cyclist being run over because in his mind, the cyclist had some culpability in setting off the driver,


Never said the bicyclists did anything wrong. All I said was we were not there and have no idea of what happened.

I have seen bicyclists, racers, amateurs and pros riding on the road. They fall down. Without any help they fall down. They even knock each other down. Sometimes riding alone they fall off the road and die. They don't make a big deal out of a bit of road rash or even broken bones. But if a bicyclist is inconvenienced and there is a car within a mile - the driver is at fault and needs to be punished.

You get your opinions. I get mine. With your opinions, I would prefer for you to not ride near me.

---

As I recall following too close is against the law. Maybe we should put bicyclists who follow to closely in jail.

Obstruction of traffic is when you are proceding at less than the posted speed and 5 vehicles are behind you. At least that is the view of the courts near me. By that definition the group was obstructing traffic - themselves, and had some obligations.

So now we have traffic violations. The bicyclist who told this story admitted that the bicyclists were violating these laws. I bet that is their practice - they simply ignore the law when they are out riding.

I don't mind the law ignoring bicyclists ignoring the law, but to thinnk they are blameless is just wrong.

I must have missed the post when the OP said they were violating any traffic laws.

But here is a first-hand account of the incident, published a few minutes ago:
http://velonews.competitor.com/...s-hit-and-run_275971

Apparently the group was not obstructing traffic, and was not violating any traffic laws, as per the OP's description.

So again, how were these cyclists to blame for a car ramming them off the road?
Quote Reply
Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [An Old Guy] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I said I would ignore you, but I can't ignore this bait.

First, you say...
An Old Guy wrote:
Never said the bicyclists did anything wrong. All I said was we were not there and have no idea of what happened.

Then, you say...
An Old Guy wrote:
Obstruction of traffic is when you are proceding at less than the posted speed and 5 vehicles are behind you. At least that is the view of the courts near me. By that definition the group was obstructing traffic - themselves, and had some obligations.

So now we have traffic violations. The bicyclist who told this story admitted that the bicyclists were violating these laws. I bet that is their practice - they simply ignore the law when they are out riding.


Like I said, you are a master at attempting and FAILING at doublespeak. First, you don't know what happened because you didn't see it firsthand. Then, you magically know what happened?!?!?!?!?! And on top of that, your account of what happened is WRONG!!!! The OP clearly stated many times that his team was riding ON THE SHOULDER...NOT IN THE ROAD. Therefore, there was NO obstruction. What's the matter with you???? More importantly, what's the matter with me in continually taking your bait. You must be doing this as a prank. Is this John C? Nobody can be this foolish.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Speed Concept 9 (race)
Madone 5 (training)
Trek 1000 (rain/snow/sleet/monsoon)
Quote Reply
Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [mikegarmin4] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I just think he's quite a good troll. Not so outrageous that you completely ignore him, but he makes (just) ridiculous enough statements that you feel obliged to at least say something. But I suspect he will be ignored more and more going forward.
Quote Reply
Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [Kay Serrar] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Kay Serrar wrote:
I just think he's quite a good troll. Not so outrageous that you completely ignore him, but he makes (just) ridiculous enough statements that you feel obliged to at least say something. But I suspect he will be ignored more and more going forward.

I started ignoring him after he defended the Ass Hat who was following the two cyclists from Colorado and continually blowing his horn.

And I quote from Mr Old Guy...."The horn was annoying. As it is intended to be. The driver kept a reasonable distance certainly more distance than bicyclists keep. I don't see harrassment."




"Good genes are not a requirement, just the obsession to beat ones brains out daily"...the Griz
Quote Reply
Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [stringcheese] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
stringcheese wrote:
Kay Serrar wrote:
I just think he's quite a good troll. Not so outrageous that you completely ignore him, but he makes (just) ridiculous enough statements that you feel obliged to at least say something. But I suspect he will be ignored more and more going forward.


I started ignoring him after he defended the Ass Hat who was following the two cyclists from Colorado and continually blowing his horn.

And I quote from Mr Old Guy...."The horn was annoying. As it is intended to be. The driver kept a reasonable distance certainly more distance than bicyclists keep. I don't see harrassment."



You should read some of his training posts. He claims to be able to do 3hr rides at 90% multiple times a week. This is guy is a piece of work.
Quote Reply
Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [stringcheese] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Apparently this Kinkade guy is the owner of an electric guitar pickup company called Skatterbane in Tuscon. Surprised there has been no comments to his twitter handle yet!

-------------
Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
Instagram • Facebook
Quote Reply
Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [An Old Guy] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
An Old Guy wrote:
mikegarmin4 wrote:
Old Guy's blasé attitude toward a cyclist being run over because in his mind, the cyclist had some culpability in setting off the driver,


Never said the bicyclists did anything wrong. All I said was we were not there and have no idea of what happened.

I have seen bicyclists, racers, amateurs and pros riding on the road. They fall down. Without any help they fall down. They even knock each other down. Sometimes riding alone they fall off the road and die. They don't make a big deal out of a bit of road rash or even broken bones. But if a bicyclist is inconvenienced and there is a car within a mile - the driver is at fault and needs to be punished.

You get your opinions. I get mine. With your opinions, I would prefer for you to not ride near me.

---

As I recall following too close is against the law. Maybe we should put bicyclists who follow to closely in jail.

Obstruction of traffic is when you are proceding at less than the posted speed and 5 vehicles are behind you. At least that is the view of the courts near me. By that definition the group was obstructing traffic - themselves, and had some obligations.

So now we have traffic violations. The bicyclist who told this story admitted that the bicyclists were violating these laws. I bet that is their practice - they simply ignore the law when they are out riding.

I don't mind the law ignoring bicyclists ignoring the law, but to thinnk they are blameless is just wrong.

Please. Stop. Now.

This is painful to watch. You are digging a hole so deep there will be no hope of return to the real world.

Greg

If you are a Canuck that engages in gratuitous bashing of the US, you are probably on my Iggy List. So, save your self a bunch of typing a response unless you also feel the need to gratuitously bash me. If so, have fun.
"Don't underestimate Joe's ability to f___ things up" - Barack Obama, 2020
Quote Reply
Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [chase196126] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Protect yourselves out there folks


---------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.onelesshiker.com
http://www.twitch.tv/1horsepower
Quote Reply
Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [greatwhite] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
like
Quote Reply
Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [chase196126] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Never mind, I read the OP incorrectly.
Last edited by: Sluglas: Feb 25, 13 14:01
Quote Reply
Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [Sluglas] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Sluglas wrote:
Just curious, and maybe this gets answered later in the thread, but if you guys were on the right, how did he sideswipe somebody with the driver's side door?

OP mentions the scratch was on the passenger door.
Quote Reply
Re: Dirt bag picked the wrong cyclists [chase196126] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Good! Dumb bastard's gonna get what he deserves! Ha! Trying to wash his car clean of any evidence.
Last edited by: kloofyroland: Feb 25, 13 14:03
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