adambeston wrote:

Agreed. I mean everyone here would know after hitting submit about be a $%!@storm and his post obviously leaves many questions. TJ rides (or rode) this bike and I believe and others believe he wouldn't put himself in danger either personally or form a professional standpoint. I mean these two guys are in my top 5 athletes I follow plus Mr Gerlach on this thread who also seems to be having a hard time consuming all this.

Jordan has always been very kind to me IMO. Like others have said, he doesn't NOT answer an email, DM, PM, TXT, whatever. Usually with quite a bit of thought and words. That is strange as a pro triathlete and frankly a lot of work. I can't imagine the number of people that reach out to Jordan. TJ is very similar in a lot of regards, but mainly deals with with lot of pros seeking out his advice. TJ has been a mentor of sorts to me as well. He just jabbed me last week asking why I didn't bring the Supersonic 20mm to the wind tunnel, even though I was the one many years ago telling him to test it. There is nothing more I enjoyed than walking into a pro meeting and having some jabs with either one of these two. Frankly I like them both and I hold them both in high regard.

Fwiw, I have talked to TJ personally since Jordan left but way back in January. I talked to him about Dimond, where he wants to take the company. He has a really great vision (which I won't speak to and frankly I have no idea if the vision is still possible) along with some other projects that I think would be awesome for humanity, I mean truly awesome. When I think of TJ and Jordan against other pros, I just think how inadequate they are in comparison. The number of things these two juggle and are still are able to perform at a high-level is absolutely astounding when you think about it. They are both big thinkers. They are both stubborn, but in a way society needs. This squabble is interesting to me as I can't help but think we could have all gotten in a room and settled this without this result. The reason it has gotten to this point really does have me scratching my head, as both these guys are smart.

What it comes to it. It is not ok to put out unsafe product, especially when it comes to something like a bike, but I don't know if we are there yet to make that determination. I don't think TJ would ride a product he thought was unsafe. I have seen him take his Dimond down Lemmon, bombing down the mountain at 50+ mph.

Lastly, for Jordan it is tough. I can see some questioning Jordan's moral compass when it comes to the safety of bikes and his recommendation. Sport is weird, there is a reason I posted this paragraph in my own GoFundMe last week:

"Why Are We Asking For Funding: Have you ever subscribed to Consumer Reports? Why? Hopefully you recognize the benefit of independent data without the influence manufacturers put on the both the testing and data. Any athlete that has signed a "Sponsorship Contract" knows there is always a line that says something like: "You will not say anything that negatively impacts our brand or specific products"

It comes back to college for me and interviewing when companies used to ask, "tell me about time when you were faced with a moral dilemma and how you sided".


Last year I wrote the following piece on skinsuits. I was asked to take it down but I refused. Needless to say I wasn't invited back this year. The reality is that a free bottom TYR wetsuit (pun intended) and skinsuit is a very small allowance. It was actually a part of team concept that I was interested evaluating and learned that having a team manager telling me what to use and wear doesn't work. But I am not faced with the difficult task of navigating these slightly larger $20,000+ contracts. I never have, and frankly because I have a bit of reputation of "not playing by the rules", I never probably will have any substantial contract and that is COMPLETELY ok.


Anyone that knows me knows I have a super simple life. I don't buy extravagant life things like dinner, entertainment, personal possessions cars, expensive houses, rent etc. I commute everywhere by bike and outside of my race bike I mostly ride beater bike that are big and heavy, and that is totally fine but I won't pretend to know what it is like to have 20K, 50K, or 100K contract and the responsibility that comes along with it.

But my point is that I am sure this sat on Jordan's mind. If people remember his black/white/grey blog post you can see he does really struggle with this but he thinks about it. Most of the pros don't give a hoot, they don't even think about it. They will never bite the hands that feeds them, end of story. They will sing the praises of chocolate milk, but you won't actually be able to find any chocolate milk in their fridge. ***Disclaimer this is not an accusation just an made up example***


I am interested to see where this goes. This is a defining moment of triathlon. I can't help but think even Dan's comments earlier on the Aero Bike TT shootout thread were somewhat directed at what he knew was coming down the pipeline.

---

---

Save: $50 on Speed Hound Recovery Boots | $20 on Air Relax| $100 on Normatec| 15% on Most Absorbable Magnesium

Blogs: Best CHEAP Zwift / Bike Trainer Desk | Theragun G3 vs $140 Bivi Percussive Massager | Normatec Pulse 2.0 vs Normatec Pulse | Speed Hound vs Normatec | Air Relax vs Normatec | Q1 2018 Blood Test Results | | Why HED JET+ Is The BEST value wheelset

I don't know Chris except for some positive interactions with him around products he has represented, but in general, it is in exceptionally poor taste for a consumer goods company to sue a sales representative for this kind of thing. It's not like this guy is the COO. He didn't even go straight to Ventum -- he was with Roka for a period of time first. Putting this person through the ringer of discovery and legal costs and all that...for what? Because Chris (ostensibly) jumped around the industry a bit trying find the best company to work for and the best product to rep. Irrespective of the fact that non competes are more often than not totally unenforceable...Just leave the poor guy alone, for crying out loud.

Jordan's case is a lot different. If he is guilty of clear breach of contract -- which he very well may be, if he jumped ship and entered into an agreement with Diamondback before the previous agreement with Dimond was severed appropriately -- I don't think his technicality of claiming the bike wasn't safe to ride is going to be enough to save him from repercussions related to his failure to perform his contractual duties, especially since he is on record time and time again telling everyone how great and safe and perfect the product is. We all knew that such talk was lip service from a sponsored athlete, but it doesn't help his case now. He's pulled a complete 180 on all this stuff -- which Jordan are we supposed to believe, and which Jordan will the court believe?

Anyways, this is all fascinating from a human interest perspective. In my opinion, there is no product in triathlon that has warranted more fanfare (and money) with less substance than the Dimond bicycle. I have long thought that was because of this "coolness" factor associated with guys like Trenton Joel and Jesse and Jordan and Smashface riding it, despite longstanding shortcomings in practicality, aerodynamics, structural integrity, etc.. This thread officially razes that social cachet to the ground, while casting serious aspersion on the company from someone who knows it well.

I don't think Dimond survives this as a brand and as a product, but I don't know that Jordan wins here either -- at least not in financial terms, as the defendant in a civil suit that will be very costly if litigated, without some serious help from the community.

I am somewhat disappointed though I shouldn't be. Jordan is a maven and many of us follow what he says with interest and utmost respect. I think that this will end up looking poorly on both sides (and I had ordered a Dimond a few months back). Dimond, if they are putting out a subpar product, will never recover nor should they. Jordan, like he cares, will never hold my respect cuz he sold himself out. He marketed a product that he did not feel was safe. This tells me where his priorities are. It's in himself. We all have to choose where we draw the line. He chose to be a professional triathlete rather than an engineer. He chose money over his conscience. don't make it into a story about taking care of your kids. its about choice. For me I chose to take care of my family and established a career. I don't use it as an excuse for anything I do. I am just so terribly disappointed in all of this

Yeah that definitely helps. No biggie, I should probably go to bed too. I am interested in this subject a lot in general. Like today a fellow pro friend asked me for personal recommendation on tires. He doesn't read Slowtwitch. He wanted a tubie recommendation and I told him Vittoria Corsa Speed. Then he gave me some more parameters about how many turns and 180s in this course and was nervous about handling so I said ok Spesh Turbo Cotton 26. Then he wanted a clincher recommendation but is excessively worried about flats and I told him Conti Attack / Force which is strangely the same recommendation I have had publicly since June 6, 2012. And as I think about this, here I am recommending 3 different brands. I am not sponsored by any of them and I don't want to be sponsored by any of them. I had two people ripping me apart in the past day and I am just like, I am trying my best to remain agnostic but it doesn't seem to matter. They just remain skeptical.

---

---

Save: $50 on Speed Hound Recovery Boots | $20 on Air Relax| $100 on Normatec| 15% on Most Absorbable Magnesium

Blogs: Best CHEAP Zwift / Bike Trainer Desk | Theragun G3 vs $140 Bivi Percussive Massager | Normatec Pulse 2.0 vs Normatec Pulse | Speed Hound vs Normatec | Air Relax vs Normatec | Q1 2018 Blood Test Results | | Why HED JET+ Is The BEST value wheelset

Can't wait to read Thomas Gerlach's take on this. Has he posted yet?

Damn, and Dimond was on the top of my list. Couple of quick comments.... 1> Whoever said Rapp is a journeyman pro needs to look up his accomplishments... seriously bro, come on! 2> Dimond basically just went out of business. 3> Don't want to sound harsh, but if Rapp really did know the frames were defective and he was still pimping them out, while behind the scenes scared for his own life and sending frames back to Dimond.... man you just opened up yourself to lawsuits too if anyone was hurt, or possibly even just for the loss of value of the bike. As a consumer, I am happy as hell to hear about this. If I were your attorney, I'd fire you as a client.

---

USAT LIIE Certified Coach

About a dozen times, including right above you. :)

Try CTRL + F

Not applicable here. That is protection of a representation of a statute. A court filing is public record. Dan should publish it, its news

pretty sure that was a joke...

---

Eliot
blog thing - strava thing

It's a public record, and it's newsworthy. You should post it on the main site

Yeah, thanks. I forgot people use pink font around here.

See my post above. I asked Jordan what the fail safe mode is if the beam "sinks". Does it bottom out like a sinking seat post on a conventional bike or does the beam end up on the rear tire. I don't know the answer to this, but it is is just "sinking beam" vs "collapsing beam" I can't see how it would make the product unsafe to ride.....so your seat height just sent down mid ride. This has happened to countless bikes. It would be nice to get clarity on this either from Jordan or other Dimond owners. If it is "just" sinking saddle height syndrome, that Dimond was fixing I could see why Jordan would continue to market the product knowing there was a path to a fix and that no one would get injured in the interim. If the failure can be catastrophic it seems weird that he would have still promoted the product but then come on here months later and label it is unsafe. Having had extensive interaction with players on both sides here, I kind of wish all of this was resolved offline from a forum and the public mud slinging, with the careers/businesses and reputations of people on both sides being hung out to dry

I agree.... a sinking saddle is not a "danger" to most. But on a $10k bike, a sinking saddle should have never made it out of production. And someone trying to sell a used $10k bike with a now-known sinking saddle issue probably just lost most of the value of their bike. Loss of value due to a hidden manufacturing defect is deceptive advertising... see VW.

---

USAT LIIE Certified Coach

D'oh!

Schadenfreude.

Agreed on offline resolution. I don't think Rapp would have posted on here if he felt he had a better way out.

That said, the $150k is now a real amount of damage being done to the brand, if not more. I believe this is the end of Dimond. It may have been the end anyway, but...whatever.

sinking saddle might scare me more in the aero position on a Tribike...less on a roadie on the hoods or in the drops

He's a classic lurker waiting to shit on a thread that mentions TSS incorrectly lol

just counter sue....

don't be surprised that TJ is suing. people are all smiles and laughs until you affect their bottom line. tj knew what jordan was worth to the brand. losing him as an ambassador would be a pretty big hit to the company. think about how many dimonds were sold just via jordans work/commenting on ST. i have no idea, but a comfortable guess would be 20-30. that's a pretty good amount of bikes (especially at the high end pricing). now all of a sudden, your number 1 guy is riding another brand?

what was jordan going to say, i got more money from diamondback? i wanted a something different? nothing is going to sound good.

but seriously, i'm surprised at all of this. talk about stupid. TJ's company is all but done. this is going to spread like wildfire. jordan, on the other hand will likely just lose his reputation. next time he says X product is good, i'm going to make sure i hear 50 of my friends say the product is good as well.

john

Dimonds look like a re-hash of the experimental time trial bikes from about 20 years ago. Would never considered buying one of those, but especially not now. Good luck with your battle.

WOW...sorry to hear that, but standing up for what is right can sometimes be a lonely task.

While a very crude comparison, I had two vehicles repurchased by MBUSA for being defective lemons and would not jeopardize my families safety in a vehicle which we did not feel safe in. The second repurchase required persistence, before MBUSA finally agreed to repurchase the vehicle. In the end, they did the right thing.

Granted there are always two sides to a story, money and friends never mix well in business and it appears Dimond may have emotions and ego at play. If you were willing to return their frames & equipment they should have accepted and walked away (i.e. do the right thing). Now knowing this I would not support them as a company.

I agree. To go after two individuals and another company like this makes me think they are hurting financially and are looking for some cash to make ends meet. Ultimately their decision to sue may be the final dagger in their company. I can't imagine too many people who would want to but a Dimond given (1) the possible structural issues of their product (2) the potential that the company could go under soon (meaning no support/warranty), and (3) the lawsuits kind of look like a dick move (granted we don't know the whole story)

---

Matt

this and the like is why we should be cautious about trusting anyone with a vested interest in advice they give and why Jordan should on the face of it not be sued over this. if Jordan was still promoting Dimond after raising issues to the company then he is clearly meeting his obligation to rep their product, throwing away his own reputation in order to do so. seems like Jordan should be suing Dimond for the fact that this saga has surely damaged his future earnings.

on the face of it the only way Jordan went against his contract was to start riding a competitor's bike, however surely he can't be forced by any contract to ride an unsafe bike, nor to stop his professional activities. actually signing a contract with that competitor manufacturer while still under contract with Dimond is a different story, however it sounds like he was unable to get any response from Dimond so took them as having accepted his request for a release.

all very messy, will be interesting to see how this plays out - i hope we are able to see that rather than have it all kept secret

DHR apparently wasn't happy about me and talking about myself and asked me to try my hand at comedy so I fixed it for you.

---

---

Save: $50 on Speed Hound Recovery Boots | $20 on Air Relax| $100 on Normatec| 15% on Most Absorbable Magnesium

Blogs: Best CHEAP Zwift / Bike Trainer Desk | Theragun G3 vs $140 Bivi Percussive Massager | Normatec Pulse 2.0 vs Normatec Pulse | Speed Hound vs Normatec | Air Relax vs Normatec | Q1 2018 Blood Test Results | | Why HED JET+ Is The BEST value wheelset

FTW!!!

---

Salton Sea Triathlon Club
“I swim to get to the bike. I run because nobody gives a shit about aquabike.”