Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. (Page 15): Triathlon Forum: Slowtwitch Forums

Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Mike Alexander] [ In reply to ]

Apr 27, 17 11:50

No Mike. It's all product based as well, no cash.

Mike Alexander wrote:

Bryancd wrote:

So in regards to your "options" are you suggesting that coming to a private agreement with Dimond to release you from your contract that might have required you to remain silent on your perceived product quality issue was an actual option but you found that distasteful and decided going public was the better choice?

Bryan....curious....do you have sponsorship agreements with all of the following (signature line)?

ZOOT, GARMIN, Ceepo, Smith Optics, Boom Nutrition, SpeedFil, FuelBelt, SCYS, L3 Endurance Coaching

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, QR, Garmin, HED Wheels, Zealios, FormSwim, Precision Hydration, Rudy Project

Last edited by: Bryancd: Apr 27, 17 11:53

Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Thomas Gerlach] [ In reply to ]

bobo

Apr 27, 17 11:51

Post #352 of 443 (11517 views)

Thomas Gerlach wrote:

1poseur1 wrote:

dhr wrote:

Can't wait to read Thomas Gerlach's take on this. Has he posted yet?

Hilarious. I was thinking the same thing. Hopefully he will be able to turn his response into a 300 word missive about how he recommended a tire or how he commutes by bike.

In Reply To:

I just don't get a comment like this. So you would rather have me work towards taking sponsorship where my true views could be silenced? Where I would be forced to ride and promote that particular company's tires? Although maybe I need another 600 words to truly explain myself, I sometimes yes add tangential things to my posts as either assertions or commentary to provide context of what I am saying. I apologize if it is nonsense to you, but I can assure you I am thinking about it and trying to be as clear and transparent as possible even if tersity is lacking.

Lighten up, Francis.

-bobo

"What's good for me ain't necessarily good for the weak-minded."

Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]

DFW_Tri

Apr 27, 17 12:00

Post #353 of 443 (11344 views)

Reading this thread, I now understand why people on here who know so much about the things in the industry probably pull their hair out when idiots like me make comments about things that I really have little basis to opine about.

I'm really trying to help you here because this is an area I'm qualified to discuss. You (and your attorney) could learn a LOT from the Dimond statement. Was it written or reviewed carefully by an attorney--of course!!! As it should be. Every posting/email/text you make that is not with your attorney is a deposition/trial exhibit and another 10 questions from an attorney at one or the other (or both) that will be thrown at you. And despite what may be good intentions, the postings aren't helping your legal case. As interesting as this thread is, Jordan, for your own sake, please stop...no good will come from it. Let the thread move on without your participation.

Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [DFW_Tri] [ In reply to ]

trail

Apr 27, 17 12:05

Post #354 of 443 (11236 views)

I have to agree at this point. I can almost guarantee there's someone at Ruster doing a screen capture every half hour or so to capture everything new in case it's pulled.

Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Slowman] [ In reply to ]

ajthomas

Apr 27, 17 12:05

Post #355 of 443 (11243 views)

Slowman wrote:

we're working on a story - sit tight.

you're absolutely right. there is no way this is not news.

As part of the story could you delve into the ownership structure of Dimond? I know TJ initially owned - outright - all of Ruster but I assume some new investors came on board when he expanded to bikes...

Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [DFW_Tri] [ In reply to ]

Bryancd

Apr 27, 17 12:06

Post #356 of 443 (11221 views)

I mean how has this not gone from breach of contract to slander of the product? Won't Jordan be required to prove his claims posted a few pages back of concerns of catastrophic failure if the beam? How much will that cost?

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, QR, Garmin, HED Wheels, Zealios, FormSwim, Precision Hydration, Rudy Project

Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [DFW_Tri] [ In reply to ]

milesthedog

Apr 27, 17 12:08

Post #357 of 443 (11191 views)

Quote:

Jordan, for your own sake, please stop...no good will come from it. Let the thread move on without your participation.

wovebike.com | Wove on instagram

Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Bryancd] [ In reply to ]

Slowman

Apr 27, 17 12:14

Post #358 of 443 (11065 views)

"I mean how has this not gone from breach of contract to slander of the product?"

alleged breach of contract and whatever potential new unlawful act to which you refer.

you can give you opinion. you can write about your own experience. i assume that your statement i've quoted is your opinion. if so, that is fine.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]

gary p

Apr 27, 17 12:14

Post #359 of 443 (11061 views)

Rappstar wrote:

It was never an *actual* option. As I explained in my initial post, after my exit interview with Brad Bach, TJ's lawyer sent me a letter threatening me with a lawsuit. My lawyer responded outlining the defects in the frames I received - which I had enumerated to Dimond both after I discovered them and again, in summary, during my exit interview with Brad Bach. We made the following offer:
1) to return all frames to Dimond
2) to refund my Q4 2016 salary
3) to sign a mutual non-disparagement agreement

I was uncomfortable with #3, but I hoped that it could be crafted in such a way that I could speak frankly about my experiences with the frame if I was asked. I do not know if that was a reasonable desire or not. I wanted to be able to be honest. But I also, perhaps naively, still felt that Dimond could fix the issues I described and that they should be allowed to do so.

We never received any sort of reply. The next communication I received from Dimond was when a sheriff showed up at my door to hand me the lawsuit. As I said, my decision to go public was based on the clear perception that to TJ, filing a vindictive lawsuit is more of a priority than fixing the issues with his bikes.

So, no, I did not decide going public was the better option. What I felt was the reasonable option was rejected.

That all sounds reasonable, but the timeline is a bit fuzzy to me. When exactly did you decide that you could no longer represent Diamond, when did you notify them of your desire to terminate the agreement, and when did you have your first discussions with Diamondback? Because at Kona 2016 you were still shilling for Dimond, and 90 days later you're announced as a new Diamondback contract rider. That's a pretty short period of time. Makes one think there might be overlap.

"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"

Last edited by: gary p: Apr 27, 17 12:17

Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Slowman] [ In reply to ]

Bryancd

Apr 27, 17 12:16

Post #360 of 443 (11020 views)

Slowman wrote:

Yes, with apologies, alleged on all counts.

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, QR, Garmin, HED Wheels, Zealios, FormSwim, Precision Hydration, Rudy Project

Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Bryancd] [ In reply to ]

DFW_Tri

Apr 27, 17 12:18

Post #361 of 443 (10956 views)

I'm not going to comment on that anymore than I have already done

Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]

Bryancd

Apr 27, 17 12:23

Post #362 of 443 (10857 views)

I keep reading this just shaking my head in astonishment. He's likely going to have to prove this assertion to avoid any liability for potential damage to the Dimond brand.

Rappstar wrote:

chicanery wrote:

dev, this is not correct.

There are two failure modes. One is the seat post slipping, which would be generally non-catastrophic.
The other failure is with the pivot on the beam. The difference between the Dimond design and the original Zipp is that the Zipp had both the pivot, AND an m5 bolt. Normally that bolt is not under much load, unless the pivot were to fail. Then it would be under an enormous load and would probably fail. Steel bolt into a steel cam/pivot system into a threaded steel shaft into aluminum epoxied into the frame.

If the Dimond pivot fails, the beam comes off. You will crash. If the carbon AT the pivot fails, the beam will come off, and you will crash.

Since I was fixing a defect in the seat post area of my beam, I also added 3 layers of UD carbon to the pivot area on each side of my beam. It's not a terrible design, but Jordan is right that the tolerances must be extremely tight, and that Dimond's QC is not good enough in that respect.

Correct. This is my exact assertion. And one that I expressed to Dimond on multiple occasions well in advance in of making my statement here. And I have records of that.

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, QR, Garmin, HED Wheels, Zealios, FormSwim, Precision Hydration, Rudy Project

Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Bryancd] [ In reply to ]

nc452010

Apr 27, 17 12:29

Post #363 of 443 (10696 views)

What do they really expect to "win", though? Surely they don't think they can win a settlement (and collect) on $150,000?

Seriously.....what's in this for them? I don't see how they "win" anything.

Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [milesthedog] [ In reply to ]

DFW_Tri

Apr 27, 17 12:34

Post #364 of 443 (10602 views)

If I were Jordan, I would also be thinking about, what will a potential juror think of a gofundme account used for the legal defense. that may be admissible.

Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [nc452010] [ In reply to ]

atgnat

Apr 27, 17 12:34

Post #365 of 443 (10600 views)

The Scorpion and the Frog

A scorpion and a frog meet on the bank of a stream and the
scorpion asks the frog to carry him across on its back. The
frog asks, "How do I know you won't sting me?" The scorpion
says, "Because if I do, I will die too."

The frog is satisfied, and they set out, but in midstream,
the scorpion stings the frog. The frog feels the onset of
paralysis and starts to sink, knowing they both will drown,
but has just enough time to gasp "Why?"

Replies the scorpion: "Its my nature..."

Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [travis_lt] [ In reply to ]

ck21trhc

Apr 27, 17 12:38

Post #366 of 443 (10509 views)

Yea great stuff.... kept it up

Follow me on Twitter @CK21TRHC
I use what I love: ISM, Blue70, Trek, FLO

Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Slowman] [ In reply to ]

h2ofun

Apr 27, 17 12:39

Post #367 of 443 (10499 views)

Slowman wrote:

TheTort wrote:

Come on Dan, there is always a winner..... it's called BMW, Mercedes and Land Rover.... that's what the lawyers buy when they take on these cases and laugh all the way to the bank.

there was a big legal fight at USAT, back in 2004. a bunch of board members were suing another bunch of board members. i was not a party to it. my job, when it was all over, was to cram down the legal bills. i thoroughly reveled in it as you might guess (telling attorneys how much of their bills they were really going to get). but that's another story.

i did spectate the entire case, start to finish. i spoke to all the litigants, many times. what i found notable - shocking, really - is that both sides' lawyers reported to their clients that their case was a slam dunk win. how could both sides' attorneys be certain of a slam dunk win?

in the end it was kind of a rollback to the status quo, some hundreds of thousands of dollars and several burnt hides later. who paid? you paid. i paid. everybody who bought an annual or one day license paid.

I had just the opposite experience when I had to hire a lawyer. He told me NO matter how good of a case one thinks they have, if one goes to court,
no way one can know how it ends. Can we say OJ?

He told me his goal was to try and get it settled, out of court, as quickly as possible for the least amount of money and stress on me.

Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [atgnat] [ In reply to ]

Kay Serrar

Apr 27, 17 12:41

Post #368 of 443 (10451 views)

atgnat wrote:

Sooooo... TJ is the scorpion for bringing the suit, or Jordan is for posting all about it publicly here, or both?

Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [DFW_Tri] [ In reply to ]

milesthedog

Apr 27, 17 12:42

Post #369 of 443 (10418 views)

DFW_Tri wrote:

If I were Jordan, I would also be thinking about, what will a potential juror think of a gofundme account used for the legal defense. that may be admissible.

I imagine you're referring to this post: http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...ost=6292359#p6292359

I agree, you can probably bank on a juror in Iowa (or anywhere for that matter) falling into the resource-deficient camp and not quite understanding why a Princeton trained engineer who lives in a pretty nice area north of LA is asking for public financial support. It puzzles me - but then, I provided my best analysis of the motive driven value system that could lead to the decision to set up a gofundme campaign.

time heals everything in this hyper-paced digital world... well, time and silence. I'd opt for the latter right now and let the prior just happen and let Dan write his story.

wovebike.com | Wove on instagram

Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [DFW_Tri] [ In reply to ]

Slowman

Apr 27, 17 12:46

Post #370 of 443 (11838 views)

DFW_Tri wrote:

If I were Jordan, I would also be thinking about, what will a potential juror think of a gofundme account used for the legal defense. that may be admissible.

and NOW you're not going to comment any more than you have done ;-)

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [atgnat] [ In reply to ]

ck21trhc

Apr 27, 17 12:49

Post #371 of 443 (11797 views)

To be honest after reading all of this and the fact that Tj answered all of the concerns on a closed forum or Facebook page makes me wonder what is really going on. I understand Tj does not want to get into a pissing match but this is his brand and his baby his American made company.
Stand up and at least make a statement!!! Even if from the lawyers you are paying.

Follow me on Twitter @CK21TRHC
I use what I love: ISM, Blue70, Trek, FLO

Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]

SharkFM

Apr 27, 17 12:50

Post #372 of 443 (11774 views)

h2ofun wrote:

Hopefully there is settlement conference like we have in Canada where they can try to work it out. Try to settle at the 11th hour, that's what I always did :).

It's a SPONSORSHIP contract for crikey sake. If the athlete feels the product is not suitable, that's open for opinion, not engineering "fact". And the meetings, correspondence and exit interview with co. representatives all point to a mutual dissolution. I mean in that "exit" interview the co rep should be raising the roof.

If you are thinking to the future for Dee-mawned (said with a French accent) , how does this play out for new athletes??

Training Tweets: https://twitter.com/Jagersport_com
FM Sports: http://fluidmotionsports.com

Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Slowman] [ In reply to ]

DFW_Tri

Apr 27, 17 12:50

Post #373 of 443 (11774 views)

I meant on that particular topic...come on!! I have plenty more to say about this in general
;)

Last edited by: DFW_Tri: Apr 27, 17 12:51

Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [atgnat] [ In reply to ]

JourneyToGoPro

Apr 27, 17 12:53

Post #374 of 443 (11726 views)

atgnat wrote:

lol, nice summation!

The only thing I can think of here is short-sighted panicking by Dimond's financial investors. Unfortunately for them, it will be the end of what could have been a great bike (sad too, because it's a cool design and all of these issues sound like par for the course for any new product that's such a radical departure from the norm).

To Jordan, I hope you can make it out of this terrible situation ok. Good luck!

-Bryan Journey
Travel Blog | Training Blog | Facebook Page

Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [SBRcoffee] [ In reply to ]

TRIPRO

Apr 27, 17 12:57

Post #375 of 443 (11636 views)

SBRcoffee wrote:

Fuck it, I'll probably get blasted for this, but....I don't feel one bit sorry. You know why?

Because of shit like this from you:

I've owned three Dimonds. All have been great bikes. Like ABSOLUTELY EVERY BIKE I've ever owned, there are things I would change about them. What's great about working with Dimond is how fast many of those things HAVE been changed in the two years I've been working with them. And none of the things I desire to change are (or were) things that I think should keep someone from buying a Dimond.

Lots of folks, myself included, asked your opinions of the Dimond in very recent months, including via PM's, and you lied your ass off. You never spoke of any major issues. Now you want people to fund a defence for you. Piss off.

I can understand that you are writing this, but look at it from contract perspective. I bet Jordan was given a contract or at least partial for his contribution on this forum and the way how responds to PM. I just experienced his kindness to react on a zipp / diamondback question two days ago. So when you take this in consideration now knowing what he is going through i even appreciated his effort to answer my question. So even for that effort i will donate some.

But back to your comment, i can relate with you on this to some degree but i bet that the lawsuit from Dimond that would have hit him would be much, much larger if he had posted, while under contract, that he had issue on issue with several frames, seatposts, bad paint jobs and that he informed Dimond about this but they seem to be not capable of create a working modification......but hey, don't let my issues you from buying a Dimond. It is just me having those issues......

Jordan could possibly have chosen to say nothing about Dimond bikes at all here on ST, but that would also probably be explained as a form of not performing under his contract. I like to think he was just caught in a very bad split position, but i find it really hard to believe that someone that is in this situation and still takes the time to answer 2 questions from me that i send to him by private email is a bad character.

Jeroen
Tri-Run

Owner at TRIPRO, The Netherlands

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