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Devon Palmer calling out Lionel Sanders
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I apologize if this is old news since the post is from March, but pro triathlete Devon Palmer is openly speculating that LS is doping due to his Oceanside performance:

"Strava celebrity and Canadian Lionel Sanders rode an almost ridiculous split of 2:04 and supposedly averaged 376 watts. That’s five minutes faster than the front group of guys. Sanders is 160 pounds. I am more than a little skeptical of a 160 pound triathlete who can run a 1:13 after 90k at 376 watts. Years of having my heart broken by dopers makes me a sour skeptic like this. "

https://palmertri.wordpress.com/2015/03/29/8116/

I personally find this pretty strange - calling out the guy who finished 3rd as a doper when two others out-ran him to beat him (both of whom weigh more than Sanders! )

-------------
Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
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Last edited by: RowToTri: May 22, 15 7:54
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Re: Devon Palmer calling out Lionel Sanders [RowToTri] [ In reply to ]
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I'm surprised that he didn't call one of the NCAA swimmers a doper. Seems to call someone a doper in every other report he gives.

Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.
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Re: Devon Palmer calling out Lionel Sanders [RowToTri] [ In reply to ]
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Maybe Sanders should sue him like Aru is suing Henderson?? I guess the key difference is Sanders probably has nothing to hide.

The author really should catch some flak for this though. Its natural to entertain those kinds of thoughts but to directly defame a fellow competitor with no suggestion of evidence is terrible form. I've been called a doper before based on good performance and it hits you right in the gut.

Professional Athlete: http://jordancheyne.wordpress.com/ http://www.strava.com/athletes/145340

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Re: Devon Palmer calling out Lionel Sanders [RowToTri] [ In reply to ]
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Every time someone beats me I always tell myself they are a doper helps me sleep.


.

Technique will always last longer then energy production. Improve biomechanics, improve performance.
http://Www.anthonytoth.ca, triathletetoth@twitter
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Re: Devon Palmer calling out Lionel Sanders [RowToTri] [ In reply to ]
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So he calls out Lionel Sanders publicly based on a 2:04 bike split, but then he has this posted on his own website:

Personal Records:
Half Iron 4:01
Iron 8:55
Bike splits: 40 K 53, 56 Mile 2:05, 112 Mile 4:35
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Re: Devon Palmer calling out Lionel Sanders [RowToTri] [ In reply to ]
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https://palmertri.wordpress.com/.../22/canada-is-lousy/

Is this guy trying to be the biggest douchebag of triathlon?
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Re: Devon Palmer calling out Lionel Sanders [ In reply to ]
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Just trying to get traffic since no one knows who this guy is. And so he does not get more clocks on his website below is the article.

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…with long course triathlon talent these days. Women: Angela Duncan (70.3 monster and won Ironman Chattanooga) Magali Tisseyre (another 70.3 monster) and most notably Heather Wurtele (70.3 monster and multi time IM Champion). Men: Brent McMahon (won debut IM last year at AZ under 8 hours) Lionel Sanders (won debut IM last year at Florida without any difficulty, 70.3 monster, of recent fame for riding up Mt Lemmon in Tuscon and getting Strava KOMs which caused quite a hubbub on the internet) Trevor Wurtele (IM champ and 70.3 champ and Heather’s starter husband) and now Mr Jeffrey Symonds just won the first championship Ironman of 2015 by taking the title in Melbourne. That is a good amount of talent and I probably forgot someone.
Canadians are probably too calm and modest to get fired up about this lineup of top performing athletes. They should be hyped though. These are exciting days, these athletes could contend for the title at Kona. As you know I am generally quite derisive of Canada because of the people who live there BUT I will give them credit for producing this crop of top tier talent. Also most of these athletes seem pretty cool which is neat. It seems like most Canadians I meet are actually very neat individuals yet I maintain that the overall populace is reprehensible. This is a bizarre phenomenon that I do not fully understand but I will not be swayed from my anti-Canada belief system.
Unrelated, if you didn’t know it was Doug MacLean’s birthday the other day. Doug is my little brother and I wish him a very happy birthday and for 2015 to be another fabulous year for him. We may have different parents and he may be seven years my senior but as of now I am claiming him as a little brother.
Unrelated, my modeling peer and fellow QR PRsix rider Callum Millward made his Ironman debut at Melbourne. He put together a very smart day swimming and riding sensibly with the chase group and running mid 2:50s. It ain’t easy to go 8:14 your first time. Callum works in hand modeling while I obviously work in spokesmodeling so we are never vying for the same jobs. He rode his PRsix very well and his hands looked great the whole race.
Missy Franklin swam her 200 free at the NCAA meet in 1:39. If you’ve never swum a 200 under 1:40, just rest assured that is wicked fast. I believe she is leaving the NCAA to go pro as she preps for the 2016 Olympic Games. Good call Missy. Very few athletes are in a position to make more money as a pro than they make via scholarship but Missy is definitely of a caliber that the money would be way better as a pro. Get paid!
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Re: Devon Palmer calling out Lionel Sanders [Jordano] [ In reply to ]
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Jordano wrote:
Maybe Sanders should sue him like Aru is suing Henderson?? I guess the key difference is Sanders probably has nothing to hide.

The author really should catch some flak for this though. Its natural to entertain those kinds of thoughts but to directly defame a fellow competitor with no suggestion of evidence is terrible form. I've been called a doper before based on good performance and it hits you right in the gut.

It is rather crass to call out a fellow racer without stating any evidence to back up the claim. However, it got me thinking. It would be nice to have a 'put your money where you mouth is' style doping clause/ test procedure. Whereby at a race if you think someone is doping you stump up the cash and get them tested. Similar to amateur motorsports where it is commonplace to have a rule that anyones car/cart/bike can be torn down to check the size and bore of the engine provided the accuser fronts up a certain amount of cash.

Iain

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Re: Devon Palmer calling out Lionel Sanders [PUTU] [ In reply to ]
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From looking at his 2015 schedule, looks like maybe he is entering retirement. I only stumbled on to this because of a front page article on split nose saddles suggesting to look at photos from IM Chattanooga last year for lots of examples of very tight front ends. I saw a photo of that guy, and had never heard of him. I noticed he biked OK there but then ran a 3:55. I went to his website to see what his other results look like and this was the first thing I saw.

-------------
Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
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Re: Devon Palmer calling out Lionel Sanders [Iain Gillam] [ In reply to ]
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... With the cost refunded to the accusor if the accusation proves to be true?

I could totally get on board with that.
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Re: Devon Palmer calling out Lionel Sanders [RowToTri] [ In reply to ]
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It's been suggested to me that perhaps I should start doping so the volunteers can go home on time.

Find out what it is in life that you don't do well, then don't
do that thing.
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Re: Devon Palmer calling out Lionel Sanders [Jordano] [ In reply to ]
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Jordano wrote:
I guess the key difference is Sanders probably has nothing to hide.
.

Kind of an ironic comment in this thread.
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Re: Devon Palmer calling out Lionel Sanders [RowToTri] [ In reply to ]
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RowToTri wrote:
From looking at his 2015 schedule, looks like maybe he is entering retirement. I only stumbled on to this because of a front page article on split nose saddles suggesting to look at photos from IM Chattanooga last year for lots of examples of very tight front ends. I saw a photo of that guy, and had never heard of him. I noticed he biked OK there but then ran a 3:55. I went to his website to see what his other results look like and this was the first thing I saw.

Is the guy actually legit...his website and Twitter reads like a drunk frat boy. Amazing who can land sponsorship deals these days.
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Re: Devon Palmer calling out Lionel Sanders [Liaman] [ In reply to ]
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Liaman wrote:
... With the cost refunded to the accusor if the accusation proves to be true?

I could totally get on board with that.

I'm not sure how it works in AM motorsport but the theme I was going with was testing costs money, easiest way to get mass testing is incentivise people to pay for testing. Ergo in this format it wouldn't be refunded as it's a sunk cost to pay for the test. I think in AM motorsport it does get refunded but the rebuild of the engine is on the owner of the car/bike hence there is no cost involved to the organiser and the money is just a deterrent to stop people stripping engines with no good reason.

I think as long as costs were low it would work well as a deterrent alone. On a professional level if it could be extended to out of competition testing it would work very well.

Iain

Training Full Time in 2015: http://www.triopensource.com
http://www.facebook.com/iaingillamracing http://www.twitter.com/iaingillam
https://www.youtube.com/...9JYCrOLP34Qtgp5w1WsA

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Re: Devon Palmer calling out Lionel Sanders [Iain Gillam] [ In reply to ]
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Iain Gillam wrote:
Liaman wrote:
... With the cost refunded to the accusor if the accusation proves to be true?

I could totally get on board with that.

I'm not sure how it works in AM motorsport but the theme I was going with was testing costs money, easiest way to get mass testing is incentivise people to pay for testing. Ergo in this format it wouldn't be refunded as it's a sunk cost to pay for the test. I think in AM motorsport it does get refunded but the rebuild of the engine is on the owner of the car/bike hence there is no cost involved to the organiser and the money is just a deterrent to stop people stripping engines with no good reason.

I think as long as costs were low it would work well as a deterrent alone. On a professional level if it could be extended to out of competition testing it would work very well.

Iain

The way protests work in many sports is that cash needs to be given with the protest and you get it back if you are successful. In this case, it would make sense to have the fee paid by the guilty doper to the person who put up the cash. Pay $750 to have someone tested and if you were right, the guilty party pays you back the $750.
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Re: Devon Palmer calling out Lionel Sanders [RowToTri] [ In reply to ]
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If you read much of his ramblings he's full of sarcasm and satire, super nice guy always fun and rarely serious. Usually rocks a mustache for fun. Taken out of context it might sound bad though. Wouldn't surprise me if he and Lionel were best friends. His next post talks about "why Canada is lousy", even though he lives in Minnesota and goes on to praise their athletes. Then talks about how he and Callum Millward are fellow models. Then about being upset with his athlete for not making a podium because all the women on the podium would have had the same first name....
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Re: Devon Palmer calling out Lionel Sanders [Iain Gillam] [ In reply to ]
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Iain Gillam wrote:
Liaman wrote:
... With the cost refunded to the accusor if the accusation proves to be true?

I could totally get on board with that.


I'm not sure how it works in AM motorsport but the theme I was going with was testing costs money, easiest way to get mass testing is incentivise people to pay for testing. Ergo in this format it wouldn't be refunded as it's a sunk cost to pay for the test. I think in AM motorsport it does get refunded but the rebuild of the engine is on the owner of the car/bike hence there is no cost involved to the organiser and the money is just a deterrent to stop people stripping engines with no good reason.

I think as long as costs were low it would work well as a deterrent alone. On a professional level if it could be extended to out of competition testing it would work very well.

Iain

I'm not sure that I would endorse a system where the accusor is out of pocket even if they were right all along.
I think that it would lead to fewer people calling out fellow racers just because they don't care enough and don't want to be out of pocket.

Sure, if you hate some guy and think he's doping then you might not mind spending the cash.
But it will somewhat put people off outing people that they are pretty neutral towards.

Also, does the accusor have to name themselves publicly, or would they have the option to remain anonymous?
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Re: Devon Palmer calling out Lionel Sanders [USPro Tri] [ In reply to ]
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I dunno... just because he makes jokes elsewhere in his blog does not give context that makes this a joke. There is nothing tongue-in-cheek about it. It is stated exactly as one would if they were completely serious about it. No hint or tone of a joke at all.

-------------
Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
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Re: Devon Palmer calling out Lionel Sanders [RowToTri] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah I'm not meaning to defend his particular statement, just providing some contex as to his usual personality. He may have been totally serious on that. But knowing Devon he would probably (jokingly) accuse Canadiens of doping on Tim Horton's ! For a long time I just assumed he was "The Real Starkey", similar personality
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Re: Devon Palmer calling out Lionel Sanders [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
Jordano wrote:
I guess the key difference is Sanders probably has nothing to hide.
.


Kind of an ironic comment in this thread.

kind of...I don't think insinuating Aru might be dirty is much of leap on my part whereas this blog reads like envious defamation. At least there is circumstantial evidence against Aru: he rides for Astana, has miraculous recoveries from illness to world-beating form... according to the Secret Pro column, Henderson received many thanks for his tweet in the peloton.

Professional Athlete: http://jordancheyne.wordpress.com/ http://www.strava.com/athletes/145340

Coaching Services:http://www.peakformcoaching.com/

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Re: Devon Palmer calling out Lionel Sanders [M~] [ In reply to ]
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You literally didn't even read the article, did you? You just looked at the headline. If you had taken 3 minutes to actually read it, or even just READ THE FIRST SENTENCE, you'd see that he is highly complementary of everyone in there, and is happy that Canada is producing such great long course talent.

Devon is a sarcastic, ironic, dude. That's just his sense of humor, and his way of writing things is wayyyyy more entertaining than the usual boring articles we see that are full of cliches, dull "number geek stuff", excuses, and eyeroll-inducing humblebrags. He's pretty hilarious, and fun to read, in my opinion.
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Re: Devon Palmer calling out Lionel Sanders [Liaman] [ In reply to ]
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Liaman wrote:
Iain Gillam wrote:
Liaman wrote:
... With the cost refunded to the accusor if the accusation proves to be true?

I could totally get on board with that.


I'm not sure how it works in AM motorsport but the theme I was going with was testing costs money, easiest way to get mass testing is incentivise people to pay for testing. Ergo in this format it wouldn't be refunded as it's a sunk cost to pay for the test. I think in AM motorsport it does get refunded but the rebuild of the engine is on the owner of the car/bike hence there is no cost involved to the organiser and the money is just a deterrent to stop people stripping engines with no good reason.

I think as long as costs were low it would work well as a deterrent alone. On a professional level if it could be extended to out of competition testing it would work very well.

Iain

I'm not sure that I would endorse a system where the accusor is out of pocket even if they were right all along.
I think that it would lead to fewer people calling out fellow racers just because they don't care enough and don't want to be out of pocket.

Sure, if you hate some guy and think he's doping then you might not mind spending the cash.
But it will somewhat put people off outing people that they are pretty neutral towards.

Also, does the accusor have to name themselves publicly, or would they have the option to remain anonymous?

I think it could work either way, I can't honestly say I've given the practicalities a great deal of thought. Fundamentally it would require a vendor to undertake the service and then it would require that the vendor got the fee for providing the service. This part of it works best if the accuser doesn't get a refund from the vendor if proven correct. Why? Because this leaves the vendor guarantied of getting the money and not having to chase the guilty accused. It can be difficult and costly extracting money from people who wouldn't be willing to pay.

In a professional scenario, depending on the cost of the test and the athlete's perception of the probability of competitors doping it could work fine. Say for example it costs 50USD per test. Racer A thinks there is a 20% probability anyone is doping and finishes 11th at a race with a good prize purse. Logic would dictate that Racer A tests everyone in the top 10 if a jump from 11th to 9th is greater than 500USD. Further to this the pool of athletes likley to be racing Athlete A in future races is likley to stay rougly the same and removing 2 athletes from that pool will improve chances of getting more prize money in future races. The figures are made up but if it is your job and you stand to make more money than you loose by investing in testing - you'd go for it.

Essentially it would boil down to - if an athlete believes doping is prevalent they can pay money to increase their chances of winning by removing people doping from the field. If the belief is unfounded they will quickly and quite cheaply establish that and won't need to spend extra cash.

In an age-group scenario then the accuser paying for the test is a lot less likley to work. Partly because there is no financial incentive to move up a few positions in a race to offset the cost of testing. But age groupers have more spare funds hanging around that they may be willing to plow into tests.

Iain

Training Full Time in 2015: http://www.triopensource.com
http://www.facebook.com/iaingillamracing http://www.twitter.com/iaingillam
https://www.youtube.com/...9JYCrOLP34Qtgp5w1WsA

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Re: Devon Palmer calling out Lionel Sanders [Doug MacLean] [ In reply to ]
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Doug MacLean wrote:
You literally didn't even read the article, did you? You just looked at the headline. If you had taken 3 minutes to actually read it, or even just READ THE FIRST SENTENCE, you'd see that he is highly complementary of everyone in there, and is happy that Canada is producing such great long course talent.

Devon is a sarcastic, ironic, dude. That's just his sense of humor, and his way of writing things is wayyyyy more entertaining than the usual boring articles we see that are full of cliches, dull "number geek stuff", excuses, and eyeroll-inducing humblebrags. He's pretty hilarious, and fun to read, in my opinion.

I have never heard of him and have zero visibility into his personality and we can't read jokes between his lines. What he wrote was a straight up accusation. If I was Lionel I'd be fuming mad at this guy. There were no jokes in his accusations. Full public apology better be forthcoming.
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Re: Devon Palmer calling out Lionel Sanders [Doug MacLean] [ In reply to ]
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Doug MacLean wrote:
You literally didn't even read the article, did you? You just looked at the headline. If you had taken 3 minutes to actually read it, or even just READ THE FIRST SENTENCE, you'd see that he is highly complementary of everyone in there, and is happy that Canada is producing such great long course talent.

Devon is a sarcastic, ironic, dude. That's just his sense of humor, and his way of writing things is wayyyyy more entertaining than the usual boring articles we see that are full of cliches, dull "number geek stuff", excuses, and eyeroll-inducing humblebrags. He's pretty hilarious, and fun to read, in my opinion.

The problem here is that the only two people in this thread that have chimed in with this response are pros that probably know him in person. I skimmed an article or two on his blog, and while it eventually came off as sarcastic and ironic, not everyone is going to know that, and especially not when it's linked to here and people only read a single blog of his. Also the doping accusation didn't exactly come off as a joke to me, although that doesn't mean it isn't.

All in all I just don't see him having the name recognition to pull off the sarcastic vibe and have it translate well online. I'd love to see more pros like him, and hope eventually he can get there, but for now, it's not working quite as well as he'd like it to unfortunately.
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Re: Devon Palmer calling out Lionel Sanders [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:
Doug MacLean wrote:
You literally didn't even read the article, did you? You just looked at the headline. If you had taken 3 minutes to actually read it, or even just READ THE FIRST SENTENCE, you'd see that he is highly complementary of everyone in there, and is happy that Canada is producing such great long course talent.

Devon is a sarcastic, ironic, dude. That's just his sense of humor, and his way of writing things is wayyyyy more entertaining than the usual boring articles we see that are full of cliches, dull "number geek stuff", excuses, and eyeroll-inducing humblebrags. He's pretty hilarious, and fun to read, in my opinion.


I have never heard of him and have zero visibility into his personality and we can't read jokes between his lines. What he wrote was a straight up accusation. If I was Lionel I'd be fuming mad at this guy. There were no jokes in his accusations. Full public apology better be forthcoming.

I think he was referring to the Canada Sucks post, which I think is clearly tongue-in-cheek. But as you say, the accusation against LS shows no sign of being a joke. Just a straight-up baseless accusation.

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Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
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