I'm not doing IMLT, but I am doing the Tahoe Rim Trail Endurance Run 50 Miler in less than two weeks. I train in Virginia, where the air is hot and miserable and the trails are steep and rocky.

I've heard many versions of the "<24hrs or >2+ weeks" theory. My question is whether there's good science to back this up or whether it's just repeated wisdom. The Pike's Peak marathon altitude advice (elsewhere in this thread) says that a weekend at altitude can make a difference.

I arrive in Carson City late Thursday. My only decision is whether to spend Friday sitting around as high as I possibly can (probably some 10,000 ski resort) and hope that breathing thin air for 8 hours makes it less of a shock on Saturday, or to spend Friday in Carson City and breathe 8,500' air for the first time at mile 10 of the ultra.

Advice? How should I spend my Friday? I'll report back so all you IMLT'ers can learn from my folly :-)

Too back you are not out a week earlier. You could join me next Sunday at the Donner tri and get some good high altitude training/racing in.

I still hear lots of different opinions. I think it comes down to each person is different so one size might not fit all. Since I have always gotten to Donner the morning of the race, I have not data how I would feel if I got there a few days before. Lots of research needed during the next 14 months

.

---

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Dilbert..... and any other. WA str's... Go to Sunrise at Mt Rainer take your trainer and ride while looking at the mt then trail run after. 6500 fft. Ass kicker. Funny looks from the buses filled with Japanese tourists but great training. If you prefer to actually ride start at Ohanapecosh cg and ride to Sunrise, up / downd Cayuse pass then up to Sunrise. 5700 ft of climbing in 31 miles!!!!!!!

When I did the Tour de Tahoe last year, I drove up from sea level the night before the event. I didn't notice any problems with the altitude during the ride.

Some of the things I've been reading suggest you have two choices to minimize the effects of altitude: (1) drive up from sea level the night before the race or (2) spend three weeks acclimating. In other words, you suffer the most between the 24 hours after you arrive at altitude from sea level and before you have attained acclimitization.

I'm planning to drive up the morning of the race because I think that will work best for me.

So my question is where is the nearest sea-level location to King's beach?

Is it Auburn, CA? I see it's a 1.5-hour drive from Auburn to the race start. I'm looking to minimize the driving time on race morning.

Auburn is around 1200 feet. You would need to go another hour into Sacramento to get about sea level. Now maybe Rocklin or Roseville which is a little closer.

I live in Auburn but just do not see getting the race, race morning is going to work. Have not figured out what to do yet.

.

---

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Since this thread popped back up, here's a Q for the altitude people that I've been wondering about for a few weeks now.

So, the general consensus is that you need about 2 weeks to acclimate to attitude, does that figure change in anyway based on partial exposure? By that I mean, would it still take roughly 2 weeks to acclimate if you were only exposed to altitude ~7 hours a day, i.e. sleeping in an altitude tent?

While financially I could probably afford to buy an altitude tent system (as used one at least), I don't think I could reconcile the absurdity of an amateur athlete with probably a pretty small shot at KQ going to such extremes. However, I did notice that the manufacturers do rent said systems, and perhaps I could reconcile that I'm eccentric enough to at least rent one for 2 weeks before the race.

So, the million dollar question is, would this make a sufficient difference?

my understanding is that the best strategy is to train at sea level and sleep at altitude. This is because if you train at altitude with no acclimation, you can't put out the same power and you likely lose some fitness. If you sleep at altitude, your plasma still responds and you can adapt with no training loss.

Correct, and I am of the same understanding (live high, train low), hence the desirability of an altitude sleeping system. Still, even so it just seems over the top to me. I'm a single guy and I'm picturing bringing someone home and explaining to them why I sleep in a tent in my own home, or frankly just having to question whether I have truly exhausted my other less expensive / free options (simply training harder) to increase performance before going to such extremes.

However, my question is somewhat different. Even though they are basically synonymous, I'm not really seeking to increase my performance at sea level, I’m seeking to reduce my loss of performance when racing at altitude, specifically for IMLT—and renting an altitude tent is one possible option if I could convince myself the benefit was worth the cost.

yeah ok. but the answer is still yes. If you sleep in it, you will acclimate.
tell the chicks it enhances orgasm.

"the old idea of arriving immediately before a race has been shown to not work." - Joe Friel

http://www.joefrielsblog.com/...answer-it-hurts.html

Oh well...Thanks!

I found an interesting article entitled "Altitude Training Recommendations in Preparation For Competition at Altitude" from USA Track & Field (USATF) that describes currently accepted "best practices" for acclimatization. The article was prepared for athletes that were to be competing in the 2011 Pan American Games in Guadalajara, Mexico (5150ft).

For athletes named to the Pan-Am Games team in distance events of 1500m and longer, USATF funded an altitude training camp at the U.S. Olympic Training Center in Colorado Springs (6100 ft) beginning 14 days prior to their first date of competition. Athletes were then flown directly from Colorado Springs to Guadalajara 3 or 4 days before their first event.

Takeaways:

* Athletes should live at or slightly higher than the specific altitude that they will be competing at.

* Performance is worst on day 1 and progressively improves each week to day 14.

* Athletes may undergo simple testing at any of three laboratories to determine their individual response to exercise at altitude.

In view of this new information, instead of driving up the morning of the race, I think I'd better find a nearby place at a higher elevation (maybe a ski cabin?) to hang out at for 14 days prior to the race.

YES!!! Each person is different. I, sadly, am not one to quickly adapt, as I know from travel in Peru and other adventures in elevation. Hats off to those who said that 6500' is nothing. I wish I could say that.

I signed up for IMLT anyway. FOMO. GD FOMO. Idiot.

Here's what I'm doing (coming from sea-level Oakland, CA):
I'm experimenting now with Diamox prophylactically to help speed up acclimatization. Good reason to go snowboarding! I've already learned that I can't take it the night that I arrive because I can't replenish fluids fast enough. Dehydration b/c of altitude +Dehydration due to Diamox + sleep = bad news. Taking it during the day, day before I leave. We'll see. Would be happy to update this thread as I learn more.

Also working on fixing my low ferritin levels - thinking low iron... low RBC is bad for O2. (I'm no doctor, but it sounds good, right?)

Pre-IM races will include Donner half-IM and the Shasta Century to test. Will also be spending a few weekends training in Tahoe and Yosemite.

Interested in hearing your thoughts.

Interesting post by Joe Friel on altitude...

http://www.joefrielsblog.com/...answer-it-hurts.html

Yep. Read that one. Good infos (as usual from Joe Friel), especially the description of what it does to your VO2 max. OUCH!

The only part that I'm going to need to test out for myself is this bit (below). I think that, even if I don't see a big physical benefit to training at altitude, I will appreciate it mentally - kind of understanding what I'm getting into, rather than just being shocked on the day of the race.
Q. Can you suggest a workout someone could do to improve their altitude preparation?
A. Training at altitude is probably not going to be of any value in adapting. It takes something on the order of around 12-16 hours a day of exposure to a sufficiently high altitude to beneficially adapt. More is better. A few hours working out at altitude would be of little or no value and might even be detrimental to performance as one would not be able to train at as great an intensity (power or pace) as at low altitude, so muscular fitness would decline.

I would be really, really careful taking Diamox to aid in your race performance. It's hard enough to properly manage one's hydration and electrolytes during a normal IM; add in the extreme dryness of Tahoe and the diuretic effect of Diamox, and I think you'll do yourself more harm than good. But, you say you're going to test it out; I'll just suggest you test it out on a long ride with some hills.

Bumping this thread because you lowlanders might not be aware of the orientation camp 6 weeks before when you can try your strategy on the course. http://tahoepeakendurance.com/Camps.shtml

PM me... I'll buy you coffee when you come.

---

___________________________________________
http://en.wikipedia.org/...eoesophageal_fistula
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_palsy
2020 National Masters Champion - M40-44 - 400m IM
Canadian Record Holder 35-39M & 40-44M - 200 m Butterfly (LCM)

pretty much the norm in the ultra-running community.

http://www.irunfar.com/...ning-and-racing.html

---

Dave Stark
dreamcatcher@astound.net
USAC & USAT level 2 certified coach

i do not agree with the accepted view, the "proven" view, the experts' view. i went to high school at lake tahoe, lived in tahoe and reno through most of HS and most of college, about 10 years altogether, and live and train at altitude now.

the issue is not physiology. if you make your decisions based on the spurious and scant quasi-known physiological elements of this topic, you'll overlook the more important elements specific to comfort, pacing, sensory adaptation. i think you need about 4 days of being at altitude to acclimate, and i'm not talking about blood physiology, i'm talking about losing the sense of asphyxiation every time you go running. i think that's more important.

second, you need to go to altitude and swim. you need to go to altitude and run. if you're entered in that race, just go to altitude 2 or 3 times, for a weekend, and swim and run. there is no come to jesus in triathlon like trying to swim at 6000 or 7000 feet. cycling at altitude is not a problem. in fact, it's easier. swimming is the big problem, running is the second problem.

i live at 4000', and i regularly drive to 6000' or 7000' to run. that 3000' difference is probably the equivalent of going from sea level to 5000'. when i run at 7000' i don't feel anything. it's second nature. because i'm used to how it feels. it's the same lack of air. but i know how that feels. i know what pace to run. to start out a run. i know what it feels like. i'm adapted in a sensory way. that in my view is more important than trying to hit it right via some formula. going from lower altitude to higher altitude and hitting that right is like trying to hit a taper. good luck following science's advice on that one. your best bet, in my view, is to sensory adapt, and that means taking as many trips to altitude to train as possible, and then get to the race 4 days in advance.

when you do go there to train, do not train hard. just moderate. just get the feel of it.

---

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Who knew my wild ass guessed plan of being at altitude starting the Sunday prior to the race and trying to do multiple short easy swims and runs prior to IM Lake Tahoe was the Slowman approved method for lowland age groupers... (add in the weekend trip to do Boulder 70.3 also...) Now I guess I need to find one or two more weekends to hit some altitude training if I can swing it, and I will be fully implementing his plan.

Thanks for the words of experience. While I believe the science, I always felt that the first hand knowledge was a better teacher for many subjects.

---

Ryan

Living in Raleigh, NC, I am going to follow Slowman's advise as well. The tallest mountain near me around 6000' and are about a 4 hour drive away. I will just have to carve out a few weekends to get to them and train.

+1. Booked all my travel, flying up the Sat on the prior weekend and staying in Squaw. A full week has to help with altitude plus gets in plenty of swims and several rides of course.

---

2016:
IMFL #12
http://www.bestbikesplit.com

In addition to following Slowman's advice, "when you do go there (altitude) to train, do not train hard. just moderate. just get the feel of it"


.... LEARN THE IMLT COURSE:
Orientation camp 6 weeks before IMLT: http://tahoepeakendurance.com/Camps.shtml