Declining testosterone from high-volume training

Jul 11, 17 11:13

Post #1 of 51 (7012 views)

About me: 28 year old male, have been racing for about 6 years, vegan for around the same time.

My GP and I have been monitoring my testosterone, vit d, b12, cortisol, erythropoietin, along with hematocrit and other blood indicators every month for the past few months. As my training volume has increased we've noticed a steady decline in testosterone and an increase in cortisol. Just recently my T slipped just below the healthy range for men my age (110 ng/DL). Iron, hemoglobin, hematocrit, RBC, and all other tested indicators have all stayed relatively constant.

I've read a lot of literature on decreased testosterone in an endurance athletes, usually as a function of elevated cortisol from the stress of training. My peak race is 3 weeks away (Ironman Santa Rosa). I'm hoping the taper and extra rest will help normalize my levels. I've also introduced some herbal supplements mainly turmeric, trans-resveratrol, and fenugreek to help restore the levels.

Any other athletes experience this? Beyond extra rest what worked well for you? This is my third Ironman, though this season I've increased my volume and intensity substantially. Fortunately, I don't seem to have any other symptoms of chronic overtraining. My motivation and energy levels feel stable and I'm still able to put out relatively high wattage. I would say however that my sex-drive has definitely declined

Wanted to share my experience and see if anyone out there has had a similar experience, and see what worked for them to restore normal endocrine function

Re: Declining testosterone from high-volume training [DopaKing] [ In reply to ]

Jul 11, 17 11:59

Post #2 of 51 (6949 views)

I'm 29, been racing for 9 years and am also doing IM Santa Rosa as my third Ironman. I trained quite a bit more volume in my mid 20s, basically wrecking myself as much as I could and other than the occasional mental burnout or bout of bronchitis never had any of the testosterone issues. I did my last IM in 2015, and then took a year off from structured training and I've noticed this time around a lot more of the classic low T symptoms. I've adjusted my training quite a bit, a lot more intervals, a lot less hours and a lot fewer filler workouts like easy swims and easy bike rides. It's working out, I think I might actually be faster now off of 60% of the hours I used to do. At the very least I'm back where I was fitness wise and am much more aware of when I'm probably doing too much (which has been hard to avoid the last 3 weeks).
I also have had to make sure I sleep more. There's no way I can do what I used to off of 6-7 hours of sleep, I now get 8 on average. I'm more proactive about nutrition. I eat more during workouts, and eat more protein and good fats outside of training than I used too. I don't take any supplements other than a generic multi vitamin w/ iron. It all seems to be helping a lot, but I guess I'll really find out in 3 weeks.

I have friends who take synthetic testosterone so they can train 20 hours a week, and they've all got excuses why training smarter won't work for them. Don't be them, it's not about training the most, it's about training the best.

Re: Declining testosterone from high-volume training [peace242000] [ In reply to ]

Jul 11, 17 12:49

Post #3 of 51 (6878 views)

Thank you for the insight - I didn't consider that sleep could be impacting my levels. I average about 6-7 a night. I guess that's something I can definitely improve.

What's your target at santa rosa?

Re: Declining testosterone from high-volume training [DopaKing] [ In reply to ]

Jul 11, 17 12:57

Post #4 of 51 (6853 views)

I went 9:20 on the old course, I think this one is quite a bit faster, so maybe around 9. Although I saw it was over 100 this past weekend there, and if that's the case it will be a different story haha.

What about you? Looking for our AG's one slot?

Re: Declining testosterone from high-volume training [peace242000] [ In reply to ]

Jul 11, 17 13:27

Post #5 of 51 (6793 views)

good for you - I'm targeting around 9:40.

Good luck!

Re: Declining testosterone from high-volume training [peace242000] [ In reply to ]

Jul 11, 17 13:41

Post #6 of 51 (6754 views)

peace242000 wrote:

I have friends who take synthetic testosterone so they can train 20 hours a week, and they've all got excuses why training smarter won't work for them.

Did you report them to USADA?

Re: Declining testosterone from high-volume training [trail] [ In reply to ]

Jul 11, 17 14:29

Post #7 of 51 (6684 views)

Darn. Ran out of popcorn waiting and refreshing for the reply.

Re: Declining testosterone from high-volume training [DopaKing] [ In reply to ]

Jul 11, 17 14:49

Post #8 of 51 (6640 views)

You came to the wrong place for help as no one here thinks low testosterone is actually a thing. All you will get are a bunch of responses about telling you how they have done such and such and never had a problem or you should be "training smarter".

If I could offer one piece of advice...also look into thyroid levels. Best of luck on a speedy recovery.

Re: Declining testosterone from high-volume training [DopaKing] [ In reply to ]

Dave Latourette

Jul 11, 17 14:57

Post #9 of 51 (6621 views)

You are getting nowhere near enough sleep ... get 1-3 more hours of sleep per night and nap on the weekends. You will see improvement

-------------------------
Dave Latourette
http://www.TTENation.com

Re: Declining testosterone from high-volume training [peace242000] [ In reply to ]

Jul 11, 17 15:09

Post #10 of 51 (6597 views)

peace242000 wrote:

I have friends who take synthetic testosterone so they can train 20 hours a week, and they've all got excuses why training smarter won't work for them. Don't be them, it's not about training the most, it's about training the best.

And are they just training, or do they race doped? Are you a triathlon coach?

Re: Declining testosterone from high-volume training [DopaKing] [ In reply to ]

Jul 11, 17 15:54

Post #11 of 51 (6539 views)

Don't read any of these responses and read Cody Beals' articles on his site about testosterone. Be ready to hear the truth even if you won't like it.

Re: Declining testosterone from high-volume training [DBF] [ In reply to ]

Jul 11, 17 16:20

Post #12 of 51 (6505 views)

found them...many thanks it was very helpful info

it seems I'm doing all the right things with diet and recovery, just missing sleep. That should hopefully rectify the issue

Re: Declining testosterone from high-volume training [peace242000] [ In reply to ]

Jul 11, 17 16:21

Post #13 of 51 (6500 views)

peace which year did you get the 9:20 time?

Re: Declining testosterone from high-volume training [DBF] [ In reply to ]

Jul 11, 17 16:29

Post #14 of 51 (6484 views)

DBF wrote:

Don't read any of these responses and read Cody Beals' articles on his site about testosterone. Be ready to hear the truth even if you won't like it.

Not sure why you don't like the responses since they're largely consistent with Beals' regarding sleep and training load.

Re: Declining testosterone from high-volume training [trail] [ In reply to ]

Jul 11, 17 16:30

Post #15 of 51 (6481 views)

I'm not going to talk about this on slowtwitch but USADA is aware of all who race on it.

Re: Declining testosterone from high-volume training [Boz] [ In reply to ]

Jul 11, 17 16:32

Post #16 of 51 (6475 views)

Most just training, the ones who race(d) on it have mostly been caught by USADA. Yes, I am a full time coach.

Re: Declining testosterone from high-volume training [peace242000] [ In reply to ]

Jul 11, 17 16:34

Post #17 of 51 (6467 views)

peace242000 wrote:

I'm not going to talk about this on slowtwitch but USADA is aware of all who race on it.

All who? You mean all of your friends who take synethetic T for performance benefit? USADA knows about them, specifically, by name?

Re: Declining testosterone from high-volume training [DopaKing] [ In reply to ]

Jul 11, 17 16:35

Post #18 of 51 (6465 views)

2015, back when it wasn't an IM brand race.

Re: Declining testosterone from high-volume training [DopaKing] [ In reply to ]

Jul 11, 17 16:37

Post #19 of 51 (6462 views)

DopaKing wrote:

About me: 28 year old male, have been racing for about 6 years, vegan for around the same time.

My GP and I have been monitoring my testosterone, vit d, b12, cortisol, erythropoietin, along with hematocrit and other blood indicators every month for the past few months. As my training volume has increased we've noticed a steady decline in testosterone and an increase in cortisol. Just recently my T slipped just below the healthy range for men my age (110 ng/DL). Iron, hemoglobin, hematocrit, RBC, and all other tested indicators have all stayed relatively constant.

I've read a lot of literature on decreased testosterone in an endurance athletes, usually as a function of elevated cortisol from the stress of training. My peak race is 3 weeks away (Ironman Santa Rosa). I'm hoping the taper and extra rest will help normalize my levels. I've also introduced some herbal supplements mainly turmeric, trans-resveratrol, and fenugreek to help restore the levels.

Any other athletes experience this? Beyond extra rest what worked well for you? This is my third Ironman, though this season I've increased my volume and intensity substantially. Fortunately, I don't seem to have any other symptoms of chronic overtraining. My motivation and energy levels feel stable and I'm still able to put out relatively high wattage. I would say however that my sex-drive has definitely declined

Wanted to share my experience and see if anyone out there has had a similar experience, and see what worked for them to restore normal endocrine function

Do a search for Cody Beals and Matt Bach. Both are high-level athletes that have documented their experience. I know one thing Matt Bach talks about is HPA Axis and is another herbal thing if you believe in the power of herbs. Lowest number I have personally had so far is lower 400s but that blood test might as well have been taken at noon. I think my latest one it is 470 or so. I would have to go back and check.

Starting this year I have been publishing my blood labs. I need to work on the Q2 one but my Q1 can be found here. http://www.thomasgerlach.com/...acker-blueprint.html

Save: $50 on Speed Hound Recovery Boots | $20 on Air Relax| $100 on Normatec| 15% on Most Absorbable Magnesium

Blogs: Best CHEAP Zwift / Bike Trainer Desk | Theragun G3 vs $140 Bivi Percussive Massager | Normatec Pulse 2.0 vs Normatec Pulse | Speed Hound vs Normatec | Air Relax vs Normatec | Q1 2018 Blood Test Results | | Why HED JET+ Is The BEST value wheelset

Re: Declining testosterone from high-volume training [trail] [ In reply to ]

Jul 11, 17 16:40

Post #20 of 51 (6458 views)

Dude, you're going to have to trust me on this one, I'm not into naming names and getting sued and I'm never going into details. The guys who race(d) on it were mostly caught and are serving bans.

Re: Declining testosterone from high-volume training [peace242000] [ In reply to ]

Jul 11, 17 16:41

Post #21 of 51 (6447 views)

Cool - are you Matt Ison? It lists you as a pro. Are you racing pro or ag this year?

Re: Declining testosterone from high-volume training [DopaKing] [ In reply to ]

Jul 11, 17 16:47

Post #22 of 51 (6439 views)

That was my last pro race. I tried it for 3 years and that was the only race I ever won money at, and it was because of some special prize distribution to anyone who went under 930, so I gave it up. I'll be AG.

Re: Declining testosterone from high-volume training [Thomas Gerlach] [ In reply to ]

Jul 11, 17 16:53

Post #23 of 51 (6427 views)

@thomasgerlach - Thanks for sharing your labs - love your blog and ST participation!

I'm curious how you nkow Dr. Garret Rock's skills and credentials are legitimate to offer as a professional. I ask because even MD (and MD PhD) pathologists who run the laboratories of these tests, don't offer such athlete lab value analysis.

I'm open minded though - for sure, I know MD doctors are notoriously poor at giving advice and recommendations for improving athletic performance over baseline (as opposed to treating sick people who are below 'healthy' baseline), so if his credentials/background/prior results are legit, he could be a good resource.

What I'm trying to avoid is someone who might be drawing incorrect conclusions based off of non empirically-based data that isn't open to peer-reviewed analysis, and pushing it as such.

Last edited by: lightheir: Jul 11, 17 16:54

Re: Declining testosterone from high-volume training [peace242000] [ In reply to ]

Jul 11, 17 16:53

Post #24 of 51 (6422 views)

Sucks for me 😆

Re: Declining testosterone from high-volume training [DopaKing] [ In reply to ]

Jul 11, 17 17:03

Post #25 of 51 (6407 views)

I train for IMs. 2 hours a day, about 15 hours a week. Age mid 40s. Didn't test T, but if sex drive is a good proxy for T levels then mine must be normal or above normal. :D

Only issues I did notice is decreased endurance levels over the winter. Body quickly tires after just a few hard days in December to March or April and then a training run longer than 30 minutes looks more like Kona shuffle. It's Seattle so vitamin D and iron levels. It sorts itself out in the spring. I do have that tested and vitamin D was low this past winter. I do take multi with 100% vit D. Next winter plan on taking a megadose of D, and iron supplement.

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