Great review Tom. I bought a T1 Bibjohn & Dos top this winter and based on your review and everything else I've read, I'm excited to finally try it out this spring. I did make the mistake of putting it on and taking it off dry once and I gotta tell you, between my wife and I pulling on the top, I almost freaking suffocated myself trying to get it over my head. I assume it's much easier when wet.

I'm sure I have the right size, since I fall right in the chart as a size 4 and I sent Emilio my measurements, but is there any rule of thumb for determining how tight the top should be?

Thanks

Barry K

I did the same thing when my Dos arrived a couple months ago. My wife was gone so I thought I'd amuse my daughters by showing off my cool new wetsuit. Well, the comments went from "Cool, you look like a superhero!" when I first put it on, to "Dad, do you need any help? Dad? DAD?! Should I call 911??!!" when I tried to take it off dry.

(Okay, it wasn't QUITE that bad, but it did make for a few anxious moments on my part and quite a few giggles on their part)

Tom,

Great review. I'm convinced. My next wetsuit will most likely be a T1. Now, the important question: do you stock a full array of sizes?

-Jay

Great review, Tom. I have been thinking about a T1, so it is very timely!

One comment I've heard on the T1 was that it is warmer than other one-piece suits because it lets pretty much no water in. Did you (or Dawn) find this to be true?

Curious about the sizing, too. I have to guess that Dawn weighs less than 150 lbs, so I would have thought (based on the size chart) that she would have worn a size 3 bottom. (The example they use in their website for a woman 5'8" tall and 145 lbs is a size 3 bottom and a size 2 top.)

And I would have to disagree that the T1 is faster to remove, at least for the time that matters, which is from the waist down. Both suits were pretty much the same there. And I think you could even argue that the T1 would be a little slower. I think I would find it difficult to still be running during the time that the top is being pulled off over my head without tripping over something. Even if you just stop for 1 second while you're pulling it past your face, that's still 1 second that you don't have to stop for a one-piece suit that pulls down, not up.

I would have sadi the same thing about removal time, but the clock does not lie. The T1 was 19% faster to remove on average than a one piece suit. If you go by Emilio's video on his site, it is much more than 19% faster to remove. I know, I would have never thought the same, but after practicing about 8 times I can get this thing off like it was on fire. I know I am under 10 seconds now for both pieces. That is WAY faster than my Superfull. It takes me 2 seconds to find the zipper leash on a good day! Dawn weighs "substantially" more than 150 pounds. She is almost 5'10" tall and extremely strong. Thanks for reading.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

[reply]
I think I would find it difficult to still be running during the time that the top is being pulled off over my head without tripping over something. Even if you just stop for 1 second while you're pulling it past your face, that's still 1 second that you don't have to stop for a one-piece suit that pulls down, not up.
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I was thinking the same thing. Tom testing how long it takes to remove the top while standing still not while running in a group of people. I think that you would have to slow down a little or stop while you take off the top of a T1 but you could run all out while taking off the top of a conventional WS.
As a test (with no wetsuit) try running down a hallway while taking off a button front shit (not buttoned) and the same while taking off pullover shirt. Don't look at the time to take off the shirt but the time it takes you to get down the hall which is what counts. Even if you get the top of a T! off quicker, you will arrive at the bike later and still have to take off the bottom which tom showed is slower with the T1.

Does all of this mater? I say not really because as dan mentioned, you get a wetsuit to swim in, not take off, and I think the difference will only amount to a second or two which for most of us doesn't matter. Also, if you swim faster in a T1 it may more then make up for any removal differences.

A

I tested it running, outside, wet, in my backyard in 45 degree weather. I suffer for my art. Both suits.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

Tom, I'll play the part of skeptic here since I don't just run out and buy every new gizmo that appears on the scene. Having to pull it over your head is one irritating thing that I don't have to do with my one piece. Doing this dry sounds frighteningly claustrophobic. Four seconds saved in taking the thing off isn't going to make any difference to my MOP times.

Maybe it's a great product. Maybe it's just market hype. I'd rather just sit back and watch for awhile. When my current suit starts getting holes in it and needs replacing then I'll take a more serious look.

When I first tried doing this I thought "Hmm, I don't like this, I'm going to run into to someone, trip, get the the thing half over my face and then get stuck. I tested both suits by getting them thoroughly wet in a warm shower, inside and out, absolutely soaked, without body glide. My basement shower is right at my back door, so I just put the suits on, ran out the door, pulled it off running and then got back to the proch and then took the bottoms down and hit the screen on the PDA stopwatch. It was cold out and I had to run in a "U" shape to stay in my yard, which made the situation even more complex. I shot some self-timer photos of the test, but they looked so utterly ridiculous and I looked so pale and fat I didn't have the guts to put them in the article. I figured the photos of Dawn pulling the suit off slow would serve the purpose. One thing I did learn though, you don't pull the thing off slowly, you really grab it and give a helluva yank. It comes screaming off. The only real hassle is, if you don't have your goggles off, they are coming off when the suit goes over your head- like it or not. Overall, all the hassles I anticipated in pulling the top over my head either did not materialize at all, or disappeared entirely with practice. High speed removal of the suit is a non-issue. I was ready to hate these things. It took some selling for me to be interested- on several occasions by Dan. You do have to learn how to use this product to fully appraciate the benefits, but my opinion is the suit really is better in all aspects of wetsuit performance. The hard data we peovided in our review seemed to support some of that. I don't have any quantifiable evidence that the suit is faster in the water. It just felt faster. Maybe more info later.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

"Having to pull it over your head is one irritating thing that I don't have to do with my one piece."

dealing with neck hickies is one irritating thing that i don't have to do with my two piece.

there are pluses and minuses with both styles of wetsuits. but as the the guy who invented the style you own, i just can't think of what the minuses are to the 2pc right at the moment, except that there are 2 pieces to keep track in the transition area of instead of one. pulling the top off over your head is certainly NOT a minus. the neck is so much more comfortable and flexible than on a 1pc there's just no comparison, and it's no harder to pull over your head than is a sweatshirt.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

i am with mr empfield, but from a very different perspective. as i told tom way back, as an entirely new to swimming person i took one look at the 2 piece and that was that. as a rank beginner, i simply looked at the fact that your arms can move independant of your body and said " well duh ". i mean, if you are going to go clean the gutters with your arms over your head all day would you put on a stretchy one piece suit which pulled them back down every second ? i believe if looked at from a fresh perspective the 2 piece makes all the sense in the world - so simply superior that it is a marvel to me that dudes didn't think of it sooner - all you old schoolers put yourself in the place of the newbie and see if you do not agree.

with that said, i am not the best at getting it off. it does require practice, and flexibility and some shoulder strenthg - or two of the three, anyway. i lack the las t two due to injury and it's always a crapshoot after a long swim. but i do not care - even sucking like i do it is a matter of seconds, as in a couple seconds difference. but, my wife has triied mine and said " hell no" and that was that, for her. but then, she is my wife and i was stoking on the 2 piece - marital law #149 clearly states she was bound to go the other way, and call me a dork in this instance. :) be that as it may, hoping for a couple seconds better peel-off time vs the obvious to me better idea period of not having your arms pulled down at your side by a thick rubber suit seems like a pretty weak sell to me. slam dunk 2 piece, if you are in the market.

Bingo... NJBiker has made a very good observation...

The fact of the matter is that when you are removing a wetsuit, you are running in a environment you are not accustomed to. Pulling something over your head in real world situation is problematic. And, if your like me and wear prescription goggles... it's even more problematic. This adds to the T1's lack of ease to remove (not speed). Does this make the T1 easier to remove that traditional wetsuits? That is something I doubt...however, it's probably at the same level of effort (at least that's been my experience).

To say it is faster than a traditional wetsuit may be true if you practice removing the T1... that can be said for any properly fitted traditionally designed wetsuit. Speed of removal is relative to experience. Ease of removal is relative to design.

And as it's been said, wetsuits are designed to be swam in and not taken off. I strongly agree... that's why fit and comfort is crucial. Unfortunately, the review did omit a better comparison. It did not compare speed and ease of removal to the Piel. If it had, it would not have faired as well. The Piel's removal in real world triathlon environments is by far superior. Unfortunately, the fit of the Piel may not be a good as the T1. That is why I believe the Piel is better for short courses (removal crucial tris) and the T1 is better suited for long courses (comfort crucial tris).

Sorry Dan, the review was very good but not inclusive when comparisons were noted. That being said, I like my Piel and my T1 - but, for different reasons. (IMHO) One design does not fit all.

FWIW Joe Moya

hmmm. i am wondering where you guys are doing triathlons ! i mean, even with my pitiful skills i can now usually have my top off before i am even on the beach - if there is some dire obstacle in the knee deep water that i am missing for the split second the thing is over my face i am not convinced i would see it regardless !! and even up upon the perilouss shore - it involves taking a quick gander, timing a step, and ZWOOOOP, over she goes. i have limited tri experience, it is true but so far i have not seen any outside linebackers or strong safeties lurking on the other side of the snowfencing waiting to blindside guys in the instant their 2 piece wetsuits are over their faces. . . . . .

A couple things....

Speed: Tom when you were doing your timing did removing the "top" include getting out of the bib straps? I'm under the impression that it didn't. I do this while running so in my case that would add time to removing the top and subtract time from removing the bottom which is what you do standing still and everyone seems to think is the important part relative to "speed".

Goggles: I leave my goggles on and under my swim cap when I remove the top. They've never come off when I pull the top over my head.

Neck Hickies: Well, unlike Slowman, I do have some neck chafing. I love the low cut neck, it is supremely comfortable, but there is still some rub which requires me to sue bodyglide. Frankly I expect this from any suit.

I think all the concern over speed of removal is a bit ridiculous. For some it will be a bit faster, for others a bit slower. But I don't think it will be all that significant either way. It especially isn't significant for longer distance races. I do think the suit is very easy to remove (which impacts speed of removal) and this is one of the things I love about it. I'm never concerned about wrestling with the suit which was a concern I had in the past. This helps me be much more comfortable in that I'm not worried coming into T1. (no pun intended)

Hi Pooks, no, removal of the top did not include removing the "suspenders" from the bib. That was counted as removing the bottom. I dropped the top down on the porch, hit "LAP" on the Cesium PDA stopwatch and then removed the bottom. It took many more tries than were depicted in the test to establish the test protocol and do accurate numbers. Sometimes when I hit the stopwatch it feel on the ground.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

I dont get what the fuss is over removal. At IMNZ in my DeSoto I had a time of 5.49 in T1 and for those of you who know the course its a long run up to the change tent from the swim exit, my wife in a full suit had a time of 5.53 in T1. As far as I am concerned the difference is marginal. The possible reason for my wife having a slower time is more likely due to the fact that she cant pee in the water! Go figure and so has to make a quick pit stop in T1!

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Simple Simon
Where's the Fried Chicken??

I tested mine in real life, in real races. The top is off before I cross the swim timing mat; the bib straps are down while I'm running to my bike; I step out of it at the bike.

I do NOT recommend running all the way to the bike in the suit. Take the top off the instant you're out of the water; pull the bib straps down right away, too. You want to get the pressure off your torso so you can breathe.

The T1 comes off as fast as a T-shirt if you know what you're doing.

My only exception to my quick-stripping experience was IM USA, where I laid down flat on my back in the wetsuit "stripping" area and yelled, "Leave me alone!" After about a minute letting my head stop spinning (I swam a little too hard), I let them pull my suit off. They kept turning me around to find the zipper. I was delirious and didn't care if they found one or not.

I agree: Faster in the water. Faster in the transition. Cheaper. Easier to fit. One word: Better. I'm not hyping, one thing has got to be so-called "Best". IMHO this is it. Others are good, some VERY good, this is better. Like I say, we can buy any triathlon wetsuits we want to.... And no, I didn't even get a DISCOUNT on a suit.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

"dealing with neck hickies is one irritating thing that i don't have to do with my two piece."

Dan, last time I had a neck hickie was from a girl in grade 7!! Actually, my QR one piece has never been a problem for me this way. I actually once hurt my neck pulling a tight sweater over it. That's likely why I brought it up.

I'll have to try it out before passing judgement. I suspect it's just like seat angles, different things work better for different people.

I agree julian... the T1 as easy and as fast as a traditional wetsuit.

It has a fabulous swim like fill. It is very less fatiguing than most traditionally designed wetsuit. But, I still wouldn't (nor couldn't) say it's the fastest nor easiest to remove. To do that would deny that the Piel design exists. Speed and Ease are quantifible comparison standards.

This is the direction for removing the Piel. Pull up on the two zippers as you exit the water. Run to bike - period.

Two sources for video comparisons can be found at...

http://www.t1wetsuits.com/specs.html

http://www.tri2go.com/

What you will notice is that the Piel wetsuit removal is shown in actual transition conditions. While the T1 removal is shown in static position. There is also a side by side removal video comparing a traditional wetsuit removal to the Piel (although, that video is a bit of an overkill in marketing hype). I think what you notice is that the Piel is much easier and faster to remove than any wetsuit. What it doesn't show is that the Piel is not as near as comfortable as the T1 (or some traditional designs as well). The Piel is stiffer than most wetsuits, can be fatiguing and lacks the various size options as the T1.

Does ease and speed of transition really mean anything? Not really if the triathlon is a long course (such as, 1/2IM or IM). On the other hand, if it's a F-1 or Sprint distance... it may make a difference for some.

FWIW Joe Moya

Tom, still gotta disagree on the time thing. The 19% faster than the one-piece was for the TOTAL time. My point is that, since you remove the top as you're moving, the only time comparison that matters is for the bottom, which looked to be the same for both. I'm not putting down the T1 - like I said, I am thinking of getting one myself.

You better hope that Dawn doesn't read this board! :-) The reason that I assumed that Dawn weighed less than 150 lbs is because she and I both raced the Great Lakes Tri last season, and they tried to give her the first place award in the Athena division, and she basically said something like "No way! I haven't weighed more than 150 lbs since high school!". (They also tried to give her the first place master's award, which she obviously does not qualify for!) That probably wouldn't stick out in my mind so much except that I was the Athena that placed after her, so I got the first place instead. I could see that she could weigh more than 150, although I don't know about "substantially" more.

Your point is absolutely valid. That is why I wanted to seperate out the removal time from the top and the bottom, so people could see any real difference. What I had originally intended to show was that the wetsuit WAS slower to remove than a one piece. Imagine my surprise when I learned it was actually faster overall (substantially) and no slower at the bike stand where you are peeling off the bottom. The results were different than I expected, but I believe they speak for themselves. Taking off a T1 is faster than a one piece.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

Tom enjoyed your review... was surprised that you did not add anything about DeSoto the comapny and their amazing customer service. I am sure that many of the readers, myself included, are devout desoto customers becuase of positive experiences with their level of customer service...

and yes from experience, take the goggles off before you take the top off... unless you want an excuse to buy a new pair...

Tom, I must be the only person who can't swim in the TDos top. Last year, I bought the Size 4 and it was so tight, I couldn't get it on much less off. Emilio graciously traded me for a size 5 and with dry land practice, I had little trouble getting it on or off although I felt the top to be a little tight and my breathing restricted, somewhat. Well, yesterday, in my first open water swim, I made it around the first bouy, then I had to get on my back as I was hyperventilating from the restricted breathing. How tightis the top supposed to fit? Will it stretch with usage?
By the way, mine is retrofitted with the T1 material in the seams.

Bob Sigerson