Login required to started new threads

Login required to post replies

Cycleops Hammer- how long to get "acceptible" power readings?
Quote | Reply
I've just had a Hammer as an early christmas present to me ;) and i'm a bit underwhelmed with how long its power readings take to come into line compared to my p2max's.

Firmware is all upto date.
No dropouts occurring to screw readings.

If i perform a spindown in either rouvy or trainerroad as well as doing the p2m via my garmin, before starting, and then again as it warms up ~10-15mins in, i'm getting the hammer overread by about 35-40w at a displayed wattage from the p2m of 180-220w depending on what i'm doing, and sweetspot hr a good 15bpm lower than what i'm used to.

It's taking repeated spindowns during a 1hr session before it tracks pretty closely (30-40 mins in).

I expect a bit of difference, but to overead by such a high percentage, compared to a spider based system with q-rings, is effectively trashing the first half of my workouts.
It made me question the p2m i was using, but i changed bikes to a different p2m, and results are the same. Both P2m's track to an acceptible level my G3 powertap.

Spindowns from ~21mph or whatever it is, down to zero are taking around 100 secs, but when the calibration pop up screen appears, it says 16ish, a good 30 secs after you have stopped pedalling.

Saris seem to think this is normal, is this what those using the hammer would expect?
Currently undecided whether to send it back :(
Thanks
Phil
Quote Reply
Re: Cycleops Hammer- how long to get "acceptible" power readings? [philg] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Is there a reason you are Hammer's power meter? The general recommendation is to control any training software based on a real power meter if you have one.

Bike radar just did a big review of smart trainer (http://www.bikeradar.com/...t-to-consider-45980/) and they hit on some of the issues of calibrating smart trainers and the accuracy of the overall readings. Basically the best way to run your smart trainer is to have the software control the trainer based on measurements from your P2M.
Quote Reply
Re: Cycleops Hammer- how long to get "acceptible" power readings? [philg] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I have used my Hammer for about two months now and I have never managed to make it read high. Usually the powermeter reads 3-20W higher than the Hammer. I use the Polar pedals for power (Look powermeter). I have a feeling that the difference in power is bigger at low speed and low cadence while power is high.

Just to avoid some errors. Do you have the correct crank length set for your power2max? If you run 175mm and have 170mm selected the powermeter will read low.

I get around 16 when I run spinndown as well. My guess is that you speed up to a certain speed (maybe it is 21 mph) but they measure the time to spin down from 19-16 or something.

Personal best:
Ironman 9:22:02
Ironman 70.3 4:24:12
Quote Reply
Re: Cycleops Hammer- how long to get "acceptible" power readings? [scott8888] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
scott8888 wrote:
Is there a reason you are Hammer's power meter? The general recommendation is to control any training software based on a real power meter if you have one.

Bike radar just did a big review of smart trainer (http://www.bikeradar.com/...t-to-consider-45980/) and they hit on some of the issues of calibrating smart trainers and the accuracy of the overall readings. Basically the best way to run your smart trainer is to have the software control the trainer based on measurements from your P2M.


It sort of defeats the purpose if i'm having to rely on my other pm, I could have saved a lot of cash and kept my old dumb trainer, or just got a dd one.
If i didnt have anything to compare to, then i would assume its okay, but as i do, then its fairly obvious that something is not right.

My main quibble is the fact it is taking so long to get stable readings.
I shouldn't have to do repeated calibrations to get sensible figures from it; imagine spending all winter on TR or whatever, and then finally getting out on the road and numbers not adding up to performance.

If it was low/high/ similar from minute 10 through to end of session i could probably live with that, and you know where you stand, but obviously it isnt.
Quote Reply
Re: Cycleops Hammer- how long to get "acceptible" power readings? [teinvall] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
teinvall wrote:
I have used my Hammer for about two months now and I have never managed to make it read high. Usually the powermeter reads 3-20W higher than the Hammer. I use the Polar pedals for power (Look powermeter). I have a feeling that the difference in power is bigger at low speed and low cadence while power is high.

Just to avoid some errors. Do you have the correct crank length set for your power2max? If you run 175mm and have 170mm selected the powermeter will read low.

I get around 16 when I run spinndown as well. My guess is that you speed up to a certain speed (maybe it is 21 mph) but they measure the time to spin down from 19-16 or something.

Thanks for your reply.
Yours is the way i would expect due to drivetrain losses etc.
I run q rings on the tt bike, and would expect a slight inflation of power figures due to them, so that actually makes it worse.

You dont alter crank length for P2Max, and comparing them to my powertap, all are similar when i've run them at the same time.

Have you tried the spindown in different gears ie small ring as opposed to big, to see what effect that may have?
Quote Reply
Re: Cycleops Hammer- how long to get "acceptible" power readings? [philg] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Yes that's right it measures torque and cadence instead of force and cadence as in my pedals.

I had a look at the power meter and power2max seems to be using an accelerometer based cadence sensor so it will probably just meassure cadence once per crank revolution meaning power is over estimated. Since you get the same numbers on your powertap as your power2max maybe this oval gear error and drive train loses cancel each other out.

I hope I will be able to power o set of P1 pedals soon to verify that my Polar pedals are correct.

Spinndown shouldn't give different results in different gears since drive train is stationary will spinndown is carried out.

I run Cycleops Rouvy software for my indoor sessions. Within this you have the option for "hot calibration" that is valid only for Cyclops trainers. When this is enabled the software uses the temperature reading from the trainer to know when it's hot enough and ready for calibration. Sometimes it takes 10 minutes and sometimes it take 30-40 minutes depending on what kind of session I'm running.

Since your readings are very off I would suggest you contact there support. My experience is that they are very quick to reply.

Personal best:
Ironman 9:22:02
Ironman 70.3 4:24:12
Quote Reply
Re: Cycleops Hammer- how long to get "acceptible" power readings? [teinvall] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
teinvall wrote:
Yes that's right it measures torque and cadence instead of force and cadence as in my pedals.

I had a look at the power meter and power2max seems to be using an accelerometer based cadence sensor so it will probably just meassure cadence once per crank revolution meaning power is over estimated. Since you get the same numbers on your powertap as your power2max maybe this oval gear error and drive train loses cancel each other out.

I hope I will be able to power o set of P1 pedals soon to verify that my Polar pedals are correct.

Spinndown shouldn't give different results in different gears since drive train is stationary will spinndown is carried out.

I run Cycleops Rouvy software for my indoor sessions. Within this you have the option for "hot calibration" that is valid only for Cyclops trainers. When this is enabled the software uses the temperature reading from the trainer to know when it's hot enough and ready for calibration. Sometimes it takes 10 minutes and sometimes it take 30-40 minutes depending on what kind of session I'm running.

Since your readings are very off I would suggest you contact there support. My experience is that they are very quick to reply.


Doh! didnt think that one through, did i?? :p
Regards "hot calibration" thats for wheel on trainers; hammer shouldn't require it (and also in the cycleops blog says so).

I think i've got to the bottom of the problem.
It appears that it's something in trainerroad. it's only doing it when i run it through TR, and does it either in BT or Ant+ mode.
Using Rouvy, it tracks where i'd expect, so looks like I'll have to email TR support, or at least temporarily use power match.

Attached pic has had a few little tweaks as rouvy autopaused and my garmin doesn't, just to bring the time scales a little closer.
Trainerroad pic had spindown at 0, 10, 20 and 40 mins
Last edited by: philg: Dec 7, 17 5:11
Quote Reply
Re: Cycleops Hammer- how long to get "acceptible" power readings? [philg] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
philg wrote:
It sort of defeats the purpose if i'm having to rely on my other pm...

If you purchased a Hammer because it measures power, then yes using your P2max does defeat the purpose. However, a smart trainer has much more value outside of reading power.

In all my research of Smart Trainers prior to purchasing one, I concluded it as a given that the trainer is not going to match my power meter. Every training software application now has the option of using some form of "power match" where the software reads your power meter and adjusts the trainer's resistance based on the number from your power meter. This creates a best of both worlds scenario. You get to enjoy all the benefits of using a smart trainer while relying on the same consistent power source both outdoors and indoors.

To me, having a smart trainer paired with a power meter is the ideal indoor training solution.
Quote Reply