I gotta say, you're dominating the ST forums with subtle Simpsons references. Well done, sir. Well done.

For all those that are calling into question Brian's IM time and saying it isn't fast he was doing only LSD training at that point. Brian made reference to not being able to train Macca because it would take time that he may not be willing to spend. It would be changing many aspects of his approach to triathlons. Looking at triathlons as a skill and not just swim,bike,run. There is a difference in having this approach alone. It would take time for a transition to this type of training because it is different and not like anything they have done in the past or like anything anyone else is using. Its going against the grain and a new approach to training. The strength part is one and reworking their thinking/philosophy on training takes time. Change takes work and people don't like it. And it would be changing many aspects in addition to just their training-- movement patterns, nutrition, their understanding of recovery etc. This doesn't take anything away from what he does. He is a world class athlete, period. In order to get this guy moving correctly he would take 2-3 yrs of this training so that he could get back up to the level he was at. But, he'd be stronger, and have many more abilities than swim/bike/run long.
Brian is not trying to put his system in a fancy marketing pattern to make money nothing could be farther from the truth. The longer the race does not mean there will be less of a performance. There are athletes using this system and having very successful races. Carl Borg for his first 100 miler at Angels Crest in September of last year in 29:31 The course is from Wrightwood, California to Pasadena, California through one of the toughest mountain ranges in the world.

Kaitlin, I really have to commend you for sticking up for what you believe here, not the easiest audience.

When you mention Macca and how CF would improve his skills, I'm not so sure. I have no doubt him and anyone else can benefit from CF at some level in addition to their training, but a small % depending on their training phase. But it seems that you believe CF alone or as a majority of the training should be CF, this is where you lose many here.

But, the day a CF trained athlete contends for #1 at Kona, you will be able to come back to say I told you so. I just don't think I will be holding my breath for that day.


Jim

Don't worry. When Lance wins Kona it will be effectively validated by the transitive property. :)

"On November 18, he completed his 50k with no
problems."

Seriously? That's what you call proof of concept? The very first question you should be asking is...has anyone ever accomplished the same thing WITHOUT this approach? I think you know what the answer is.

"Brian made reference to not being able to train Macca because it would take time that he may not be willing to spend. It would be changing many aspects of his approach to triathlons. Looking at triathlons as a skill and not just swim,bike,run. There is a difference in having this approach alone."

That presumes he knows and understands Macca's approach to triathlons in the first place. That's presuming a hell of a lot about a guy who owns a significant portion of the fastest times in Ironman/Ironman distance racing history.

"But, he'd be stronger, and have many more abilities than swim/bike/run long."

And those abilities are applicable to Macca's profession in what way? If you want to be good at triathlon, train run, bike, swim. If you want to be in good all-around fitness...do CFE.

Show me a peer reviewed study that proves this CFE approach turns out superior endurance performances in specific sports (triathlon in our instance)...and I'll pay attention.

"Throwing in some CrossFit into your schedule isn't following the program by design so you won't experience all of the benefits as following it as prescribed."

The classic "out" used when something doesn't work as advertised.

pfft. That takes too much time ;-)

Did you listen to my interview yet? you need to do it by Sunday before it goes offline!!!

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maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD

How are we defining high intensity work?

Lance Armstrong does a lot of everything. Not only large amounts of "low intensity" work which is all relative. His low intensity is is probably too hard for most average triathletes to keep up for very long.

He also does weights, interval work (VO2 max), tempo work (AT), etc which can be considered high intensity work.

I'm sure that many of you have seen articles in Triathlete that advocated the benefits of higher intensity endurance work that generates lactate. Also that lactate itself can be used as a fuel in highly trained athletes. If you can do these high intensity workouts (intervals, etc.) without getting injured or burned out you'll get more bang for your buck.

Nice work dangling a fresh pork chop in front of the hungry rottweiler that is ST! Setting the over-under at 200 posts for this one.

Paul

"I did a (amazingly slow) 11:33 Ironman on Crossfit Endurance training, therefore Crossfit works (N=1) and therefore Crossfit will work for everybody."

I get what you are saying, but "Fast" and "Slow" are relative terms here. That 11:33 time, while no where near "fast" in my book, is in fact faster than the average or median times at most IM races.

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

TriBriGuy--To have the only thing you get out of your training is to be fast at swim/bike/run what happens when you are taken out of that domain you should have transferrable traits. What happens when something happens in life and with all the training you have done you are able to handle it. Conditions in life as well as life changes and conditions are guaranteed. Long oxidative training comes at a price. It just so happens that I don't feel swim/bike/run long is enough. It is all going to come at a cost, and that cost will show up between the ages of 40-50yrs. You cannot overtrain your entire career without consequences. Some of these consequences from overtraining oxidatively: In humans, oxidative stress is involved in many diseases, such as atherosclerosis, Parkinson's disease, Heart Failure, Myocardial Infarction, Alzheimer's disease and chronic fatigue syndrome, but it may also be important in prevention of aging by induction of a process named mitohormesis. Reactive oxygen species can be beneficial, as they are used by the immune system as a way to attack and kill pathogens. Reactive oxygen species are also used in cell signaling. This is dubbed redox signaling. CF and CFE is not only about good all around fitness there are alot more very valuable health benefits in addition to race performance. You don't have the negative effects of overtraining in the oxidative pathway which comes at a price.

It is all going to come at a cost, and that cost will show up between the ages of 40-50yrs.

Not sure what that "cost" is, but I will take it. Last week I was mistaken for being in my mid to late 30's - I turn 48 in two weeks! :)

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

When Brian did his IM he was doing LSD training it was following that experience when he became involved with CF and their training methods.

Kaitlin, I really have to commend you for sticking up for what you believe here, not the easiest audience.

Before getting all warm and fuzzy, Kaitlin has six posts on this forum, all magically relating to this topic, and all sounding like a bad informercial for CFE. If you think that this poster is not a shill then I have some lovely beachfront property to sell you in Arizona.

And I am not slagging the program. I am sure that for overall fitness CFE is very valuable, but it strikes me as yet another "my way is the only way" fitness cult.

I want to S/B/R faster, not build the perfect beach body ... so yes I will lift a few weights and do a few yoga classes, but mostly I am going to Run, Bike and Swim. Go figure.

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Proud member of the MSF (Maple Syrup Mafia)

Last week I was mistaken for being 80 and I'm 57 ;-)

Seriously, I hope this stuff works, because I'm an old dude how enjoys lifting and don't get to do it but once a week. Loss of muscle mass is a bigger issue for old dudes like me. If I could spend a little more time in the gym and a little less away from home on long slogs, my wife would be happier. I'm not sure I want to jump headlong into this, though. Besides I do enjoy longer runs and rides.

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_________________
Dick

Take everything I say with a grain of salt. I know nothing.

I understand what she's doing. She keeps coming back when I think most wouldn't. I might not agree with someone that drinks the kool-aid, but I do admire the commitment.


I guess if I gave my brother a jump rope, told him to use it 3 times a week and then enter him in a ultramarathon and he completes the event, my training is also a success. There really is little differance in that and her point here so far.

But it may make you a better CYCLIST ------>>>>>




Lance's conditioning program that he used to "get back in shape"
looked very much like CF

After years of lurking I signed up for just because this thread is so ridiculous.

This puts him at 52/98 finishers and he was 11 hours slower then the winner, decidedly middle of the pack. Additionally this does not take into consideration any base he has previously built.

This does not mean Crossfit is not worthwhile, any program that gets a person to consistently train is a good program. But to say that it is better the same other style, and more to the point to say that endurance athletes need to spend more time developing their anabolic strength verses their aerobic is dubious at best.

It would be interesting to pit a number of athletes against each other, who starting with the same base fitness, trained with Crossfit or traditional training programs (LSD).

The end all, be all of performace??
I'd argue it is the best general fitness program out there. I would not be in better overall shape doing any other program.
CrossFit is a foundation to be built upon for any specific sport you care to get excel in.

"I'm not interested in spending only 20 minutes a day training in the gym then going out and racing."
There are plenty of workouts that take a lot longer that 20 minutes and less than 20 minutes. Most of them are "racing" agaisnt the clock.
The workouts incompass "broad time and modal domains". All part of GPP. No need for seperate cardio and weight workouts.

World class athletes??
What makes a person an "athlete"? Who is a better athlete?
Someone who can ride the fastest 100 miles, 30 miles, or the fastest 4000m track time?
Someone who can run the fastest marathon, 10K, 5K, 100m the fastest?
Someone who can bench their body weight the most times, or who can squat the most?
Someone who has a highest vertical leap or someone who can do the most pull-ups?
I'd say the world class athlete would be the one who has the best combined score in all the above disciplines.

Some may say, "a 450 DL isn't going to get me a Kona win". Then if what you want is to be the #1 triathelete your going to be weak in other areas, though less weak then someone who wants to be the fastest marathoner. That is why I personally chose the olympic distance triathlons as something I want to dabble in. I personally don't care to be racing more than 3 hours.

It all comes down to this folks, specailist will always need to specialize in their given field.
The further you want to go faster, the more specialized you'll become.
To each their own...Peace.

It's morning now, everybody has had their coffee, and now its going to get really entertaining!

I love reading the posts written by people who join the site just to defend an indefensible position on the topic.

I also love all the typos and nearly indecipherable semi rants, the cut n paste wikipedia-esque label knowledge "bombs"; and so forth.

It leaves me thoroughly entertained, and begs the question: how is it that someone is smart enough to turn on the computer and type, yet dumb enough to post "that"!

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persequetur vestra metas furiose

I turn 51 in a month. If I can only get there without coming down with any of those nasty illnesses mentioned between 40 and 50, I'm good to go!

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"Go yell at an M&M"

This is a triathlon forum. We all want to be fast triathletes. That is why we train like triathletes. Whats the problem? We do our thing, you do your thing. I do not care if you can clean and jerk more than me, stop trying to make me slower with your stupid crossfit.

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Jack