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Re: Crossfit/Crossfit Endurance- Triathlete article = fishy? [MeltingPot] [ In reply to ]
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MeltingPot wrote:
Says you, a blind-leading-the-blind instructor with one Ironman under your belt in 13:49. Keep up those squats and maybe you can crack 13:30 in your next one.

What does that have to do with anything? The guy finished an IM, his first one, who cares the time!? Seems like a decent time. Who are you to say his time is good or bad? Cheers to an "Elitist Triathlete" comment at it's best.
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Re: Crossfit/Crossfit Endurance- Triathlete article = fishy? [MeltingPot] [ In reply to ]
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thread resurrection/destruction- I have zero doubt that CF has put me in better overall physical shape over this off season. It has not necessarily made me a better triathlete, but it has improved my overall wellness. My balance and flexibility has significantly improved (this is significant in my injury prevention and life wellness) as has my leg strength. Thus far, my short distance run times have improved modestly (2 min 5k- this could have also been accomplished by more track workouts). I believe that my fast twitch muscles are firing like never before (seen my swim and bike times drop- again over short distances).
What I have noticed on the bike is a higher speed and cadence (too poor for power) on 30 mile rides. Not sure if it will hold for longer (it’s still too cold for me to go outside—I am a pansy).
I still do not believe CF/CFE makes sense for serious or elite triathletes. It just simply lacks the specificity to eek out the final 5%.
I am, however, more convinced that this makes sense for half-arse triathletes like me. Those that dabble, those that finish MOP or even the latter part of the front pack. It pushes me more than I would otherwise push myself. This alone is helpful.
In the end, after all the analysis and good skepticism (I still am skeptical of the whole CF/CFE world!), I will continue doing it because it is fun for me and it seems to keep me at my historical level of tri-competitiveness with less time commitment.
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Re: Crossfit/Crossfit Endurance- Triathlete article = fishy? [Tri Poseur] [ In reply to ]
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Tri Poseur wrote:
This alone is helpful.
In the end, after all the analysis and good skepticism (I still am skeptical of the whole CF/CFE world!), I will continue doing it because it is fun for me and it seems to keep me at my historical level of tri-competitiveness with less time commitment.

Great points...but may I ask if the evidence, in your own results and "feel", points to CF/CFE benefiting you...why the skepticism? I fully understand the knee-jerk reaction to the 'latest-greatest' craze, but to me, this doesn't fall in that boat. What would need to happen to alleviate your doubts?

Thanks for keeping the thread going with positive feedback.
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Re: Crossfit/Crossfit Endurance- Triathlete article = fishy? [StavrosJK] [ In reply to ]
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StavrosJK wrote:
What does that have to do with anything? The guy finished an IM, his first one, who cares the time!? Seems like a decent time. Who are you to say his time is good or bad? Cheers to an "Elitist Triathlete" comment at it's best.
What does that have to do with anything? Are you kidding? It's hardly elitest......I want my dentist to have nicer teeth than me and I sure as hell want my coach to be faster than me OR be working with athletes who are.

Pretend this is a forum about cooking and a chef comes on here and tells you his recipe, stating that everyone should be using that ingredient. You do a little homework and find out that the chef making this recommendation is really just an average cook AT BEST working over at Applebees.

Conversely, you have other chefs on the same forum who work at 5-star restaurants and completely disagree with the recommendation of Chef Applebee, stating you don't really need that ingredient at all.

If you want to take your culinary advice from the chef at Applebees, that's your perogative, but I'd rather build my cookbook from the those chefs who cook a hell of a lot better than I.
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Re: Crossfit/Crossfit Endurance- Triathlete article = fishy? [fefe] [ In reply to ]
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fefe wrote:
"Your toughest day of racing isn’t as bad as your hardest CFE workout."

Not so much.

He needs to race harder
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Re: Crossfit/Crossfit Endurance- Triathlete article = fishy? [MeltingPot] [ In reply to ]
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Take it easy cowboy. That kind of junk comment makes this forum unreadable. If you disagree with my comment, give up your well thought and experienced opinion on the subject rather than attacking me personally.

This thread is about whether CF and CFE can prepare you for an IM. My experience says it can. I have finished 1 Sprint, 1 Olympic, 1 HIM, and 1 IM doing CF and CFE training. Others like SMUGFIT, have given their experience with CF and CFE as well. Take it or leave it. I'm not trying to sell anyone.

Ryan Hunt
Owner - CrossFit Monrovia
http://www.crossfitmonrovia.com
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Re: Crossfit/Crossfit Endurance- Triathlete article = fishy? [Pucknryan] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
I'm not trying to sell anyone.

Ryan Hunt
Owner - CrossFit Monrovia
http://www.crossfitmonrovia.com


No, of course you aren't.


----------------------------------
"Go yell at an M&M"
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Re: Crossfit/Crossfit Endurance- Triathlete article = fishy? [StavrosJK] [ In reply to ]
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To alleviate my doubts, quite frankly, I would need to commit to CF/CFE solely for an IM and compare it to my prior IM done under a standard coach led training methodology.

Without question, my skepticism remains based primarily on the marketing/pitch factor of CF being the best and only way. This just simply is not the case. It is clearly A way and it may have certain advantages associated with it. CF loses credibility with me by pushing itself as the only way when in reality many of the training principles have been used and around for ages.

I still hold to the fact that to go long, you need to go long (especially on the bike). I think this holds even more true for people like me that are the avg. joe triathlete. I am truly concerned for folks training CF/CFE who will never ride 100 miles before their IM. I am actively monitoring a few folks who are trying CF/CFE this year and will see how they perform. Since I am doing shorter stuff this year, I will likely try it (although I am already having problems following it as I keep doing my Sat. 10 mile run or Sat. long bike ride). I find I have a hard time giving up some of the longer stuff as (much like CF), it makes me feel better, more fit, able to eat breakfast tacos, etc.

I do think CF/CFE is a viable training regime. I just remain suspicious if it holds up on long course. Would love to hear updates from anyone doing CF/CFE this season to tell us (honestly) how it goes.
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Re: Crossfit/Crossfit Endurance- Triathlete article = fishy? [StavrosJK] [ In reply to ]
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StavrosJK wrote:
rareid wrote:
No, he seriously asked what the benefit of performing 100 Bench Presses and 100 Squats was and the answer is none. The same benefit of performing 30 snatches for time. Unless the goal is Crossfit's "Metabolic Conditioning", then there is no benefit. But I'm sure Crossfit HQ will say they have the science to prove otherwise, and then in the same breath claim that peer review is pointless (which they have done). And FYI, 100 Bodyweight Squats was a Crossfit workout previously.


Judging by your past posts...you're not a fan of strength training. There's no arguing or evidence that will change your mind, but as far as benefits squats and presses? Do you have a better way for the football players to train? Maybe countless junk hours on the bike? or road running miles until there's no cartilage in your knees? or swim until your shoulder falls off?

As far as your assessment of CF HQ, you've read up a bit. Yes they defend what they believe is a great path to fitness, who doesn't?

Actually, you haven't read many of my posts if you don't think I am a fan of strength training. I absolutlely love strength training, just not Crossfit. I guess you never played football but if you did, you should certainly know that 100 Bench Presses and 100 squats is not a good workout program. As Dan John has said before, anyone can make someone workout hard and puke. And that is the problem with Crossfit...well one of many actually. Maybe you personally suffer from injuries and don't do well with large volume work, to that I have no idea. But if anyone thinks CFE will produce a champion on the national stage, they are sorely mistaken. Why do you think BMac at CFE is DNF at half of his races now. He is no longer able to recruit from the years of aerobic base that he built b/c he has neglected it for about 4-5 years. $1000 and a Crossfit Level 1 certification (and don't even start on the ANSI crap) does not make one an expert or a coach. It simply makes one a franchisee. Take a look at some of the Crossfit affiliate sites, 75% of them program "METCON" workouts everyday. Even the affiliate guy who is posting here does METCON all the time at his box. To that, I would love to know why. Otherwise, Crossfit and Crossfit Endurance should drop the "ELITE" and just workout. If you have to try and convince everyone that your system works, you better have the data and Crossfit doesn't have it.
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Re: Crossfit/Crossfit Endurance- Triathlete article = fishy? [Pucknryan] [ In reply to ]
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Pucknryan wrote:


To an endurance athlete, 100 un-weighted, full depth, squats are good for flexibility, balance, coordination, leg/hip strength and speed. Everyone should be doing squats. 100 bench press are not as useful.

-

A little late to the party, but I love this.

-Squats don't go past my normal ROM, therefore how do they help flexibility?

-I do not have to be overly careful to avoid falling over, therefore how do they challenge my balance?

-I can easily bend and straighten both legs simultaneously, therefore how do they help my coordination?

-As for strength in the purest sense, well, I challenge you to find any activity, easy enough to do 100 times, that will improve my 1 or even 5 rep max!

-Physiojoe

-Physiojoe
Instagram: @thephysiojoe
Cycling coach, Elite racer on Wooster Bikewerks p/b Wootown Bagels
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Re: Crossfit/Crossfit Endurance- Triathlete article = fishy? [MeltingPot] [ In reply to ]
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Fair enough. I'm not as good a tiathlete as you so my advice carries no weight. So John Wooden's advice was crap because he couldn't play the game as well as some of his athletes?


Here you go. Mark Allen is faster than you and he says you should lift weights and squat.

http://www.markallenonline.com/maoArticles.aspx?AID=12

http://www.active.com/...rength_Exercises.htm

Ryan Hunt
Owner - CrossFit Monrovia
http://www.crossfitmonrovia.com
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Re: Crossfit/Crossfit Endurance- Triathlete article = fishy? [Pucknryan] [ In reply to ]
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Pucknryan wrote:
Fair enough. I'm not as good a tiathlete as you so my advice carries no weight. So John Wooden's advice was crap because he couldn't play the game as well as some of his athletes?


Here you go. Mark Allen is faster than you and he says you should lift weights and squat.

http://www.markallenonline.com/maoArticles.aspx?AID=12

http://www.active.com/...rength_Exercises.htm

Not the guy you are replying to, but the second link sounded so much like an infomercial I couldn't go past the first few sentences.

Oh, and I believe he said "I sure as hell want my coach to be faster than me OR be working with athletes who are." You must have missed the second half.

-Physiojoe


-Physiojoe
Instagram: @thephysiojoe
Cycling coach, Elite racer on Wooster Bikewerks p/b Wootown Bagels
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Re: Crossfit/Crossfit Endurance- Triathlete article = fishy? [Pucknryan] [ In reply to ]
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Let's look at this in two parts:

Fair enough. I'm not as good a tiathlete as you so my advice carries no weight. So John Wooden's advice was crap because he couldn't play the game as well as some of his athletes?
If you were a 13:49 IM finisher and had a crew of athletes under you going 8, 9 or 10 hours, than no, it wouldn't matter. The fact that you go 13:49 AND have no good triathletes under your tutelage means yeah....you're advice carries no weight.

Take it like this, imagine I walk into your CFE dungeon, put 135 pounds on the bar and crank out 4 reps squating because that's all I can do. I then start to tell others how they should go about doing more/better squats, when I can't even do a good amount myself. I hate to break it to you, but your 13:49 looks to us a lot like my piddly 4 squats would look to you and your CFE minions.

As for the Wooden reference, you're joking right? How about this...when ONE of your CF/CFE athletes wins A national championship in ANYTHING related to an endurance sport, PLEASE let me know and I'll apologize.

Here you go. Mark Allen is faster than you and he says you should lift weights and squat.
http://www.markallenonline.com/maoArticles.aspx?AID=12
http://www.active.com/...rength_Exercises.htm


#1 the link to the MAO article doesn't even mention a squat.

#2, did you actually read that active.com article? Let me give you a little help, one line read:

I fought going to the gym for years until I reached my mid-30s.

Can we agree that by 'mid-30s' he means about 35? Any idea how old Mark Allen was when he won the ITU World Championship? Any idea how old he was when he won the majority of his Kona titles? I hate to break this to you, but if you do a little homework you'll see that Mark Allen became the athlete he is without squats. Incredible huh?!?
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Re: Crossfit/Crossfit Endurance- Triathlete article = fishy? [MeltingPot] [ In reply to ]
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Hey guys.

First thing. I must say this has been a great thread in that none of the dialogue has descended into name calling, sarcasm or personal attacks. I wanted to post to address some of the most common issues we here about CrossFit and CrossFit Endurance and their role in endurance sports. I thought I'd join the discussion as there were a bunch of issues that were addressed that I think I can help clarify or chime in on.

Full disclosure, I am one of 5 CFE head coaches and ran about a dozen certs last year. Additionally, I have a background in marathon swimming, marathon running, Ironman triathlon and collegiate swimming and run an endurance training business (www.gotrimax.com).

I've seen several themes come up in different places, so I'm going to try and capture a bunch of common issues and hit them one at a time. Please bear with me as I try to go through the topics I noted and please let me know if I've missed anything.

"A shortcut to fitness"... I think much of the cornerstone of CF and CFE lie in the time/result ratio. That is, the status quo of fitness is very much defined by how much someone trains (i.e. a 5 mile run per day, 60 mins on a stairmaster, etc). I would hazard a guess that the vast majority of the public believes that "6 pack abs" and other elements of visual fitness demand great amounts of time. I think anyone reading this thread knows this is not the case for general physical preparedness. As for the endurance community, the same traditional thought process is very much alive. That is, if one researches any "beginner" or even "intermediate" training plans via beginner triathlete.com or cool running.com one would find a periodized training plan that features a 10% increase in volume for about 3 weeks followed by a 1 week reduction of volume of about 15% for recovery. This overall concept is repeated until the athlete peaks with a 20-24 mile run 3 weeks before a marathon or a 6-8 hour brick in the case of an Ironman triathlon. So, much of the dialogue around CFE is centered around the "absurdity" of drastic reductions in volume vs. the status quo and a great premium put on intensity.

"Disastrous for an elite"... I think this quote was pulled from a post on another thread noting the downside of an elite endurance athlete taking on CF/CFE. I am unaware of a professional endurance athlete taking on this protocol, but I am not omniscient. Additionally, I will note that the #2 professional American Ironman triathlete Andy Potts had never run more than 15 miles or ridden more than 60 miles at one time in his life before his first ever Ironman triathlon in Kona where he (if memory serves) 5th overall and a 2:53 marathon. No, I'm not suggesting that Andy Potts is a CrossFitter. All I'm noting here is that volume in training does not need to be achieved for elite results. Also of note, Potts was a world class swimmer at Michigan and a professional triathlete at the Olympic distance for years before jumping into Ironman. As for you guys already screaming "previous aerobic base", hold your horses....I'll get to it!

"Years of base"... This is the beginning of the "Catch 22" of CFE and goal of trying to empirically substantiate its value from a scientific perspective. The "advertised" CF/CFE protocol calls for 4-6 CF workouts of the day WODs per week with an additional 2 WODs per sport of specificity. Hence, a triathlete would do 4-6 CF WODs per week and then 6 additional WODs, 1 time trial and 1 interval of each discipline. I spell this out as this protocol (as described above) has only existed as such for just over 2 years. This puts the protocol in a tight spot to draw upon success or failure. Here's where it gets dicey. In only 2 years of existence, who has used such a protocol? Well, the majority of the users that I am aware of came from an LSD (long, slow, distance) background. What this means is that the majority of those claiming success may, in fact, be "tainted" as many critics will cite the years of an aerobic base as the root cause of their success and not the protocol. Some will cite over training, lack of taper knowledge, etc to "explain" such athletes' performances--because they "know" it can't be the protocol!!! (couldn't help myself). Of course the other side of this issue is the newbie. "Yeah, such and such used CFE and was successful 'cause he had X years of aerobic base, what about somebody with no base!?" When such athletes are put forth, they, too are criticized as having no base and any beginner will automatically improve doing something they weren't doing before. The point here is that trying to establish a pure starting point with definitive, clear correlation to specific adaptations in the training can be very, very difficult.

"Who has qualified for Kona (triathlon) or Boston (running)"... In other threads people will note earlier that "thousands" of people qualify for Kona each year. For those out there interested in better qualifying such an accomplishment, here's some quick math. There are about 28 sanctioned Ironman events each year with a rough average of about 2400 entrants at each. This puts the worldwide total of such athletes (not accounting for people doing multiple IMs) at just over 67,000. So, if only 1600 people qualify for Kona each year, you are looking at a 2% of the Ironman triathlon population making the cut. Hence, anyone using CF/CFE principles to qualify for such an event would be representative of less than two percent of the triathlon population. As for qualifying for Boston, I can't even begin to tally the number of entrants for Boston qualifier marathons or the participants as they are in the dozens of millions and I think Boston has less than 25,000 runners. Point being, both standards are high and while I do not know of anyone using CF/CFE to qualify for Kona, I know of at least a dozen who have qualified for Boston.

"What is the logic of no long S/B/R in CFE?"... Many people scoff at the notion that we rarely (if ever) program activity longer than 90-120 minutes for any of our published "ultra" protocols. When we respond by saying that we have not found a reason to go longer than this (as high intensity work at this time domain can be overly damaging and result in multiple days off post effort) critics will respond "Well, if you don't need to, then where are your Kona/Boston qualifiers?" The free protocols that are published daily on CFE are not designed to be used verbatim by athletes of all backgrounds and capabilities. Just as the CF main site publishes WODs for the masses (80-90% of us?) those athletes competing at the CrossFit Games (again, less than 1% of global Crossfitters) don't necessarily follow that protocol. In fact, I know many will train multiple times per day. However, I know that Chris Spealer does not train multiple times per day, all year. He will only do multiple day WODs several months before the Games or the qualifiers. What does this mean to us? It means two things. First, the protocols published via CFE are published for a broad and inclusive endurance community--say 98% of endurance athletes. Second, the CFE protocol is based in strength which is to say that should an athlete be able to handle more volume (across ALL modalities--not just sport specific ones) additional volume is prescribed. In fact, CFE highly advocates longer efforts past 90 minutes to test one's nutrition and pacing protocols. We just don't believe going long without intensity is as beneficial as doing so with intensity to build stamina (remember Andy Potts?).

I am hopeful this post will shed some light on the issue of CFE and its place in endurance activity. For those of you interested in viewing the training blogs of some of our athletes who have chronicled their journeys to Ironman events using CF/CFE, here is a listing:

http://martinstrainingblog.blogspot.com/
http://www.danbtrainingblog.blogspot.com/
http://00stake.blogspot.com/
http://trimamma23.blogspot.com/
http://alegassa.blogspot.com/
http://cwunderle.blogspot.com/
http://janetrijourney.blogspot.com/
http://grigs-lpim2010.blogspot.com/
http://www.itri2.blogspot.com/


Max
www.gotrimax.com
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Re: Crossfit/Crossfit Endurance- Triathlete article = fishy? [Pucknryan] [ In reply to ]
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Will your doggie cross fit program help my pooch complete the iditarod? He just doesn't have the time for a traditional training program.
Last edited by: npage148: Jan 27, 11 17:15
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Re: Crossfit/Crossfit Endurance- Triathlete article = fishy? [mwunderle] [ In reply to ]
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mwunderle wrote:
Just as the CF main site publishes WODs for the masses (80-90% of us?) those athletes competing at the CrossFit Games (again, less than 1% of global Crossfitters) don't necessarily follow that protocol. In fact, I know many will train multiple times per day.

Woah woah woah hold up.... there is a CrossFit Games??? HAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHA
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Re: Crossfit/Crossfit Endurance- Triathlete article = fishy? [draketriathlon] [ In reply to ]
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draketriathlon wrote:
Woah woah woah hold up.... there is a CrossFit Games??? HAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHA

Yes, with a million dollar purse put up by Reebok.

http://games.crossfit.com/...ot-center-1-mil,990/
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Re: Crossfit/Crossfit Endurance- Triathlete article = fishy? [npage148] [ In reply to ]
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No it won't prepare your dog for the iditarod. It will teach you how to include your dog in your exercise routine.

So we've moved off of digging at my IM times to digging at my business. Stick to the topic.


To meltingpot,
I deserve that response for trying to be clever. The first article has a recommendation for doing weight training year round. The second article, going past the infomercial and references to old age, has a good description of the squat. I have found other articles describing Allen's turing 35 and including weight training in his program. They have simliar accounts to his perfomance declining, and how adding weight training helped him retain his form throughout the season and win races.

here is one -
http://outsideonline.com/.../0297/9702festr.html

--

Ryan Hunt
Owner - CrossFit Monrovia
http://www.crossfitmonrovia.com
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Re: Crossfit/Crossfit Endurance- Triathlete article = fishy? [Pucknryan] [ In reply to ]
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As someone with 25 yrs of training exp. I feel like I need to break this tie. Great reading by the way!

CF has a place in fitness only because Americans are fat and need to move. As far as I understand CF is considered so dangerous that insurance companies won't take them on as client's, they had to start their own fund. I don't know this to be fact, I have just been told by several brokers. Ryan is this true? If this is accurate, that is truly scary. Another danger is that most CF instructors do a weekend course to become certified, then proclaim themselves to be strength and fitness experts. It took me 12 yrs in the business to feel that had a clue.

I agree that a properly planned strength program can help all athletes, in all season's. That is a scientific fact.
CF workout's are super hard no question, but if thats all I need, I can go to 24 hour fitness and take a step class. The directors of CF are great at marketing a product! Thats another fact.

The 2 biggest problems are incompetent or under educated trainers (you guys are not CSCS, so stop calling yourself a strength coaches. Please.) Also, advising 40 and 50 year old people to do olympic lifts until they puke or pass out is just crazy. The impact CF will have on some people in the short run, fat loss, strength gains and sense of community, pail in comparison to the future orthopedic problems they will most likely suffer from.

To conclude- Endurance athletes need to lift and stay strong. A must! CF folks are fine, except when they put people in danger by telling them not to prepare for there chosen sport. I can wrestle pigs to get ready for a half too, but is that is what is best for my health, no. Racing for 3, 4 let alone 13 hrs is dangerous, the body needs to do the activities to get the proper cellular development, you know mitochondria development and capillary growth. These things won't happen doing cross fit. Well in truth, not near as much!
One can find so many better programs out there. CF is just well marketed.
Last edited by: D1TRAINER: Feb 2, 11 23:20
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Re: Crossfit/Crossfit Endurance- Triathlete article = fishy? [D1TRAINER] [ In reply to ]
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D1TRAINER wrote:
...I agree that a properly planned strength program can help all athletes, in all season's. That is a scientific fact...

Actually I think you will find there is a lot of science saying the complete opposite.

D1TRAINER wrote:
...Endurance athletes need to lift and stay strong...

See above. "Need" could be subjective.
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Re: Crossfit/Crossfit Endurance- Triathlete article = fishy? [Tapeworm] [ In reply to ]
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I am all ears, or eyes in this case, show me some research that says strength training won't help.? I'm not saying a CF type workout in season or ever! But one that addresses core, balance, rotator cuff, gluts for knee health etc. Need is up to the person! Also, did anyone check to see if Mark Allen is really endorsing cross fit as a previous poster suggested. Ha ha.
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Re: Crossfit/Crossfit Endurance- Triathlete article = fishy? [StavrosJK] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
running miles until there's no cartilage in your knees?

Is this part of the CF spiel to convince you to keep your WOD short?
I always thought exercise stimulated stronger joints, including cartilage growth. There are more sedentary times getting knee replacements than runners
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Re: Crossfit/Crossfit Endurance- Triathlete article = fishy? [D1TRAINER] [ In reply to ]
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D1TRAINER wrote:
I am all ears, or eyes in this case, show me some research that says strength training won't help.?


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19826297

For the ladies:-

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10378917
Last edited by: Tapeworm: Feb 3, 11 3:57
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Re: Crossfit/Crossfit Endurance- Triathlete article = fishy? [D1TRAINER] [ In reply to ]
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D1TRAINER wrote:
I am all ears, or eyes in this case, show me some research that says strength training won't help.? I'm not saying a CF type workout in season or ever! But one that addresses core, balance, rotator cuff, gluts for knee health etc. Need is up to the person! Also, did anyone check to see if Mark Allen is really endorsing cross fit as a previous poster suggested. Ha ha.

Sigh.

ed Sci Sports Exerc.[/url] 1993 Aug;25(8):952-9.Dry-land resistance training for competitive swimming.
Tanaka H, Costill DL, Thomas R, Fink WJ, Widrick JJ.
Human Performance Laboratory, Ball State University, Muncie, IN 47306.
Abstract
To determine the value of dry-land resistance training on front crawl swimming performance, two groups of 12 intercollegiate male swimmers were equated based upon preswimming performance, swim power values, and stroke specialties. Throughout the 14 wk of their competitive swimming season, both swim training group (SWIM, N = 12) and combined swim and resistance training group (COMBO, N = 12) swam together 6 d a week. In addition, the COMBO engaged in a 8-wk resistance training program 3 d a week. The resistance training was intended to simulate the muscle and swimming actions employed during front crawl swimming. Both COMBO and SWIM had significant (P < 0.05) but similar power gains as measured on the biokinetic swim bench and during a tethered swim over the 14-wk period. No change in distance per stroke was observed throughout the course of this investigation. No significant differences were found between the groups in any of the swim power and swimming performance tests. In this investigation, dry-land resistance training did not improve swimming performance despite the fact that the COMBO was able to increase the resistance used during strength training by 25-35%. The lack of a positive transfer between dry-land strength gains and swimming propulsive force may be due to the specificity of training.

----------------------------------
"Go yell at an M&M"
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Re: Crossfit/Crossfit Endurance- Triathlete article = fishy? [D1TRAINER] [ In reply to ]
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This insurance thing sounds like more of the CF mystique/marketing. In my experience EVERYTHING is insurable (I have some comical experience with this).

I do agree with the concern over the weekend certification and undertrained "experts." The CF box I go to is comprised of mostly middle aged folks who thankfully are usually smart enough to know when to tap the brakes on CF excess. But, I have seen people attempt to lift things they never should have (most get away with it but it is very dangerous). That said, I am not sure most exercises being done (particlarly non-oly lifting) are anything too difficult to assess or program.As for ages, we have lots of 30's, 40' and 50's doing the WOD's, but I agree with a concern of the impact/ability of older folks to do CF.

For the record, I am quite positive Mark Allen is not promoting CF! He's too smart to sponsor something and not get paid!

BTW, thanks for the article on swimming and weight training, I am trying to find it to read what resistance training they included.

Appreciate all the responses here, I think it has at least provided an outlet of real information and discussion. Thankfully, most appear to approach this as this is what I do versus this is what EVERYONE must do.

In the end we all have different goals (mine is to keep in great overall physical shape to set an example for my kiddos). I still love running marathons and doing tris, but mostly I just like to have fun!
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