This makes a good deal of sense. I have perused this thread, some good info and some ignorance and I think some of it needs to be separated out. My addition to throw on the top.
1st, I think there is a difference between a CF/CFE program guidlines and how that program is implemented. To draw an analogy, a tri program that utilizes longer sport specifc training might be a great program, but if the athlete doesn't get proper shoes, running technique, bike fit, pedal stroke work, swim fitness and flexibility, that athlete could hurt themselves. CFE could be harmful to an ignorant athlete just the same as the SBR programs, so I think we should not mix the program and the application of the program. Athletes have a responsibility to themselves to stay within their abilities and training.
2nd, goals of the athlete. For me, I have a Rugby back ground (having played for about 8 years) and started doing triathlons 4 years ago as recovery when I herniated two discs in my back and could no longer play. I am a 225# clyde who does alright, but is looking for improvement, combine that with the fact I have 2 small kids and busy work schedule that involves travel I need to fit it all in. CFE helps me work it all in. Will I be faster, I don't know. Will I be slower, I doubt it. I can say I feel stronger (core and legs) but not just in a power sense, but in a springy/nimble sense. I have taken kettlebell classes to learn proper technique (highely recommended by the way) and have become pretty good at pullups and jump rope, so I am not a meat head gym rat, just a bigger fella who likes to race triathlons.
3rd, I think many people in the SBR camp are anti anything new. In my limited experience, they are a pretty crowd following in they mindset and so I am not surprised they do not respond well to this. Is it CFE or the fact that CFE is very different from what they have always done? Many who have done CFE have also done the traditional SBR programs, but many who are SBR focused have not done CFE. I think their is much misinformation there and the lack of experience clouds their views. I also think they are intimidated by the strength and conditioning as this is very new to many who might not have that sort of background. This doesn't mean I am in favor of CFE for everyone (see point number 2) but that also doesn't mean I am against it for everyone.
4th, the arguement that CFE trains you for CFE and not for triathlons...huh? I do mainly Sprints with some Olympic and Exterra distances events. Most events have areas of hills, gap closing, recovery, technical etc...CFE has many intervals that train in sport specifc chosen ways (swim bike and run) that help power, speed, recovery, sustained effort. I can't speak to an IM or a HIM, but for a Sprint or an Olympic, one would be hard pressed to argue CFE is anti SBR. The Strength and conditioning are pretty straightforward and work well for me. I have a different background and I am quite a bit stronger than most triathletes, so maybe I am less intimidated by the workouts.
Lastly, don't take what I say as gospel. I am not a poseur, I am also not a top age grouper. I am a an athlete cross training from another sport, who enjoys working out and being fit, who enjoys triathlons and wants to improve. I am confident I will as I can feel a difference after only one month. I still do my long rides, I still ride fixed geared on hills in the winter, I still run hills for training, but I can say that I feel pretty strong compared to last year and I feel confident going into this season.
Cheers and thanks.
CF has a place in fitness only because Americans are fat and need to move. As far as I understand CF is considered so dangerous that insurance companies won't take them on as client's, they had to start their own fund. I don't know this to be fact, I have just been told by several brokers. Ryan is this true? If this is accurate, that is truly scary. Another danger is that most CF instructors do a weekend course to become certified, then proclaim themselves to be strength and fitness experts. It took me 12 yrs in the business to feel that had a clue.
I agree that a properly planned strength program can help all athletes, in all season's. That is a scientific fact.
CF workout's are super hard no question, but if thats all I need, I can go to 24 hour fitness and take a step class. The directors of CF are great at marketing a product! Thats another fact.
The 2 biggest problems are incompetent or under educated trainers (you guys are not CSCS, so stop calling yourself a strength coaches. Please.) Also, advising 40 and 50 year old people to do olympic lifts until they puke or pass out is just crazy. The impact CF will have on some people in the short run, fat loss, strength gains and sense of community, pail in comparison to the future orthopedic problems they will most likely suffer from.
To conclude- Endurance athletes need to lift and stay strong. A must! CF folks are fine, except when they put people in danger by telling them not to prepare for there chosen sport. I can wrestle pigs to get ready for a half too, but is that is what is best for my health, no. Racing for 3, 4 let alone 13 hrs is dangerous, the body needs to do the activities to get the proper cellular development, you know mitochondria development and capillary growth. These things won't happen doing cross fit. Well in truth, not near as much!
One can find so many better programs out there. CF is just well marketed.
1st, I think there is a difference between a CF/CFE program guidlines and how that program is implemented. To draw an analogy, a tri program that utilizes longer sport specifc training might be a great program, but if the athlete doesn't get proper shoes, running technique, bike fit, pedal stroke work, swim fitness and flexibility, that athlete could hurt themselves. CFE could be harmful to an ignorant athlete just the same as the SBR programs, so I think we should not mix the program and the application of the program. Athletes have a responsibility to themselves to stay within their abilities and training.
2nd, goals of the athlete. For me, I have a Rugby back ground (having played for about 8 years) and started doing triathlons 4 years ago as recovery when I herniated two discs in my back and could no longer play. I am a 225# clyde who does alright, but is looking for improvement, combine that with the fact I have 2 small kids and busy work schedule that involves travel I need to fit it all in. CFE helps me work it all in. Will I be faster, I don't know. Will I be slower, I doubt it. I can say I feel stronger (core and legs) but not just in a power sense, but in a springy/nimble sense. I have taken kettlebell classes to learn proper technique (highely recommended by the way) and have become pretty good at pullups and jump rope, so I am not a meat head gym rat, just a bigger fella who likes to race triathlons.
3rd, I think many people in the SBR camp are anti anything new. In my limited experience, they are a pretty crowd following in they mindset and so I am not surprised they do not respond well to this. Is it CFE or the fact that CFE is very different from what they have always done? Many who have done CFE have also done the traditional SBR programs, but many who are SBR focused have not done CFE. I think their is much misinformation there and the lack of experience clouds their views. I also think they are intimidated by the strength and conditioning as this is very new to many who might not have that sort of background. This doesn't mean I am in favor of CFE for everyone (see point number 2) but that also doesn't mean I am against it for everyone.
4th, the arguement that CFE trains you for CFE and not for triathlons...huh? I do mainly Sprints with some Olympic and Exterra distances events. Most events have areas of hills, gap closing, recovery, technical etc...CFE has many intervals that train in sport specifc chosen ways (swim bike and run) that help power, speed, recovery, sustained effort. I can't speak to an IM or a HIM, but for a Sprint or an Olympic, one would be hard pressed to argue CFE is anti SBR. The Strength and conditioning are pretty straightforward and work well for me. I have a different background and I am quite a bit stronger than most triathletes, so maybe I am less intimidated by the workouts.
Lastly, don't take what I say as gospel. I am not a poseur, I am also not a top age grouper. I am a an athlete cross training from another sport, who enjoys working out and being fit, who enjoys triathlons and wants to improve. I am confident I will as I can feel a difference after only one month. I still do my long rides, I still ride fixed geared on hills in the winter, I still run hills for training, but I can say that I feel pretty strong compared to last year and I feel confident going into this season.
Cheers and thanks.
D1TRAINER wrote:
As someone with 25 yrs of training exp. I feel like I need to break this tie. Great reading by the way! CF has a place in fitness only because Americans are fat and need to move. As far as I understand CF is considered so dangerous that insurance companies won't take them on as client's, they had to start their own fund. I don't know this to be fact, I have just been told by several brokers. Ryan is this true? If this is accurate, that is truly scary. Another danger is that most CF instructors do a weekend course to become certified, then proclaim themselves to be strength and fitness experts. It took me 12 yrs in the business to feel that had a clue.
I agree that a properly planned strength program can help all athletes, in all season's. That is a scientific fact.
CF workout's are super hard no question, but if thats all I need, I can go to 24 hour fitness and take a step class. The directors of CF are great at marketing a product! Thats another fact.
The 2 biggest problems are incompetent or under educated trainers (you guys are not CSCS, so stop calling yourself a strength coaches. Please.) Also, advising 40 and 50 year old people to do olympic lifts until they puke or pass out is just crazy. The impact CF will have on some people in the short run, fat loss, strength gains and sense of community, pail in comparison to the future orthopedic problems they will most likely suffer from.
To conclude- Endurance athletes need to lift and stay strong. A must! CF folks are fine, except when they put people in danger by telling them not to prepare for there chosen sport. I can wrestle pigs to get ready for a half too, but is that is what is best for my health, no. Racing for 3, 4 let alone 13 hrs is dangerous, the body needs to do the activities to get the proper cellular development, you know mitochondria development and capillary growth. These things won't happen doing cross fit. Well in truth, not near as much!
One can find so many better programs out there. CF is just well marketed.
Last edited by:
rugbysecondrow: Feb 3, 11 11:23