Login required to started new threads

Login required to post replies

Critique my swim routine
Quote | Reply
I've been doing triathlons for 3 years now, predominantly short course with the odd 70.3. My annual swim program is wait until 6 weeks out from first race then swim 3 days a week for the duration of the season (4 months), then stop over winter.
Each swim session is usually 45-60 minutes, consisting of usually 1000m time trial (warmup), 800-1200 meters of 100m efforts, then cool down with 500-800m using fins. I sometimes throw in some laps with feet banded together.
I usually see myself go from 2:00/100m to 1:40/100m (50m pool times) during the course of the season.

Is there anything different I could be doing regarding the structure of this workout that would see my times improve further.
I don't want to do any elaborate long winded drills with swim toys, just freestyle. This is the most time I can commit to swimming.

Thanks in advance
Quote Reply
Re: Critique my swim routine [Dangs] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Your biggest bang for the buck will be to swim more than a 4 month season. You are starting from scratch each year.

You might be ok with that. Your call.

If you don't want to do that, then some pointers but they aren't going to get you a whole lot. Consistency is the #1,2 and 3 it on the list of how to get better.

your warmdown is excessively long, 200 or 250 is plenty, and depending on my mood I skip it altogether. Make the main set longer with recovery swims built into the main set, where appropriate.

A time trial is not a warmup. Warmup is warmup, a TT s only nice you are well warmed up and it hurts like a mf'er. You aren't doing a good quality practice after a time trial.

I can't give you more than that without knowing specifics.

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
Quote Reply
Re: Critique my swim routine [Dangs] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Dangs wrote:
I've been doing triathlons for 3 years now, predominantly short course with the odd 70.3. My annual swim program is wait until 6 weeks out from first race then swim 3 days a week for the duration of the season (4 months), then stop over winter.
Each swim session is usually 45-60 minutes, consisting of usually 1000m time trial (warmup), 800-1200 meters of 100m efforts, then cool down with 500-800m using fins. I sometimes throw in some laps with feet banded together.
I usually see myself go from 2:00/100m to 1:40/100m (50m pool times) during the course of the season.
Is there anything different I could be doing regarding the structure of this workout that would see my times improve further.
I don't want to do any elaborate long winded drills with swim toys, just freestyle. This is the most time I can commit to swimming.
Thanks in advance

The single biggest thing you could do is to swim 11 mon/yr rather than only about 5.5 mon/yr as it sounds like you're doing now. JOOC, your improvement from 2:00 to 1:40, is that steady state pace over 1000-1500 m, or is it your pace for intervals with 15-20 sec rest???


"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."
Quote Reply
Re: Critique my swim routine [Dangs] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
You are the prototypical triathlete at the moment. If 3 swims / week for 4 months is all you've got, then you would well to add as much variety as possible. If you are against drills as well, the best thing you could add to your freestyle swimming is speedplay. Negative split longer swims and descend shorter repeats. Do 4 x 400 where you neg split + descend. Changing speed teaches more than just how to vary intensity.

Also a fun activity is what I call "Pulse Kicking". This is a swimming activity where you alter something about the kick every set number of armstrokes. So a 6-6 Pulse (1 beat / swim) would have you swimming 6 arm strokes with a 1 beat kick followed by 6 arm strokes with your normal kick.

Pulse Kicking can be hard/easy, swim/pull, x beat / y beat or whatever you want to make up. You can vary the armstrokes as well. I like to Pulse 4-8 (1 beat / swim), where I do 4 strokes with a 1 beat kick to really dial the timing, and then 8 strokes normal swimming where I try to maintain that timing.

Front Door - Back Door swims are another type of speedplay/fartlek where you go out hard, cruise the middle, and finish hard.
FDBD 400 could be 50/100 HARD 200/300 CRUISE, 50/100 HARD

But yeah, if you really want to get better, swim year round. You are basically regressing to swimming's Mendoza Line every time you cease.
Quote Reply
Re: Critique my swim routine [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
1:40 pace is my 1000-1500m pace, I go just under 1:40 for my 100m intervals, on about 20sec rest. There's very little difference between my interval pace and 1000m pace
Quote Reply
Re: Critique my swim routine [Dangs] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Dangs wrote:
1:40 pace is my 1000-1500m pace, I go just under 1:40 for my 100m intervals, on about 20sec rest. There's very little difference between my interval pace and 1000m pace

Well, the small delta between your intervals and your steady state is pretty typical of people who've never swum on a team and never really worked on their speed. Given the very limited amount of swimming you've done, holding 1:40/100 m long course for 1000-1500 m is actually pretty good. If you were to keep swimming thru your off-season, i suspect that, if you swam some long rest 50s and 100s where you tried to go as fast as possible, you could prob get your best time for 100 LCM down to 1:20 or so in a few months. As has been discussed at length in the "How fast do you need to be" swim thread, your distance potential is limited by your sprint speed. Once you get more sprint speed, your average pace for the short rest (15-20 sec rest) intervals will come down and so will your steady state pace.


"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."
Quote Reply
Re: Critique my swim routine [Dangs] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Just for reference, I'm about 4 secs per 100 faster on a set of 10-20x100 on 20 secs rest than in a straight 1500 for time.

Not sure where you're at, but that seems like you are in the right ballpark anyway.

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
Quote Reply
Re: Critique my swim routine [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Your times are absolutely typical of a short season decent swimmer.
If you had access to a pool all year round you will loose 20secs per 100m.

Is there not somewhere you can drive to even once a week to get in the water?
Quote Reply
Re: Critique my swim routine [Dangs] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Thanks for the input guys. Will definitely take on some of these tips. My lack of swimming during off season is due to a shift in priority to the road racing season (cycling), I may have to be more flexible and swim once or twice a week for maintenance.
Quote Reply
Re: Critique my swim routine [Dangs] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I just want to put some of the stuff the smart people are saying into context: there are guys going far under 2:00 for a 200 yard race on 3-4 workouts per week of 3000 yards. They are swimming consistently. TheyÂ’re alao training much harder intervals and not letting half the workout be fluff (see: half your warmup and almost all their warm down). And theyÂ’re not taking off for two thirds of the year. If you were willing to learn to train like a swimmer, which is going to be more of a process than you can get in this thread, you could be potentially 5 minutes ahead in an OLYMPIC race, with less fatigue to boot.
Consider joining the usms site for all the free workouts, follow the fish thread here, and generally learn about sets that will mix things up. Do a combination of longer sets (1600-2000 for where you are now, )with some real speed, eg 12.5-25s, pretty much every workout. Use fins for the latter, sometimes, and not otherwise. Kick some. Work on your technique as an integral part of your swim training. YouÂ’ll be shocked at how fast you get.
Quote Reply
Re: Critique my swim routine [Dangs] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Dangs wrote:
Thanks for the input guys. Will definitely take on some of these tips. My lack of swimming during off season is due to a shift in priority to the road racing season (cycling), I may have to be more flexible and swim once or twice a week for maintenance.

There's nothing wrong with doing what you are doing re taking so much of the season away from the pool, but you just have to decide where your priorities lie. Are you a triathlete or a cyclist?

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
Quote Reply
Re: Critique my swim routine [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Fair point, Jason.
Ultimately, I guess IÂ’m a swimmer and that colored my advice.
Quote Reply
Re: Critique my swim routine [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
ericmulk wrote:
Dangs wrote:
1:40 pace is my 1000-1500m pace, I go just under 1:40 for my 100m intervals, on about 20sec rest. There's very little difference between my interval pace and 1000m pace


Well, the small delta between your intervals and your steady state is pretty typical of people who've never swum on a team and never really worked on their speed. Given the very limited amount of swimming you've done, holding 1:40/100 m long course for 1000-1500 m is actually pretty good. If you were to keep swimming thru your off-season, i suspect that, if you swam some long rest 50s and 100s where you tried to go as fast as possible, you could prob get your best time for 100 LCM down to 1:20 or so in a few months. As has been discussed at length in the "How fast do you need to be" swim thread, your distance potential is limited by your sprint speed. Once you get more sprint speed, your average pace for the short rest (15-20 sec rest) intervals will come down and so will your steady state pace.

I have a bit of the opposite going on, except for not swimming often. Took up swimming last year in September because I wanted to compete in my first sprint and olympic distance races this year. Started at 2:20/100m (SCM) and being exhausted after 4-6 laps in the pool. Worked my way up to maintaining a 1:42/100m (SCM) average for 10-15 sets on 20" of rest by only swimming once, sometimes twice a week on my own (1-2k). Averaged 1:43/100m in last Olympic (first open water swim, with wetsuit though). No coaching. Decided I wanted to get more serious, so now swimming three times a week and I get swim coaching once a week.

Last Saturday the coach had us swimming 100m medium pace but paying attention to technique, and 100m all out where they would film the last 25m because that's when your technique will likely break down quite a bit.. First 50m I came in at 34-35s w/o flipturns, total 100m time faded to about 1:20.. So unlike OP, I would say the difference between my sprint speed and more or less steady state speed is quite large.

Would you say I would also benefit from doing 50's and 100's on longer rest (what is longer rest? 1-2 minutes?), or should I actually do longer high intensity sets (250m for instance?) or what would you suggest? And if you could explain why please.

Sorry OP, don't mean to hijack your thread :)
Quote Reply
Re: Critique my swim routine [Tri_Joeri] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Tri_Joeri wrote:
ericmulk wrote:
Dangs wrote:
1:40 pace is my 1000-1500m pace, I go just under 1:40 for my 100m intervals, on about 20sec rest. There's very little difference between my interval pace and 1000m pace


Well, the small delta between your intervals and your steady state is pretty typical of people who've never swum on a team and never really worked on their speed. Given the very limited amount of swimming you've done, holding 1:40/100 m long course for 1000-1500 m is actually pretty good. If you were to keep swimming thru your off-season, i suspect that, if you swam some long rest 50s and 100s where you tried to go as fast as possible, you could prob get your best time for 100 LCM down to 1:20 or so in a few months. As has been discussed at length in the "How fast do you need to be" swim thread, your distance potential is limited by your sprint speed. Once you get more sprint speed, your average pace for the short rest (15-20 sec rest) intervals will come down and so will your steady state pace.


I have a bit of the opposite going on, except for not swimming often. Took up swimming last year in September because I wanted to compete in my first sprint and Olympic distance races this year. Started at 2:20/100m (SCM) and being exhausted after 4-6 laps in the pool. Worked my way up to maintaining a 1:42/100m (SCM) average for 10-15 sets on 20" of rest by only swimming once, sometimes twice a week on my own (1-2k). Averaged 1:43/100m in last Olympic (first open water swim, with wetsuit though). No coaching. Decided I wanted to get more serious, so now swimming three times a week and I get swim coaching once a week.
Last Saturday the coach had us swimming 100m medium pace but paying attention to technique, and 100m all out where they would film the last 25m because that's when your technique will likely break down quite a bit.. First 50m I came in at 34-35s w/o flip turns, total 100m time faded to about 1:20.. So unlike OP, I would say the difference between my sprint speed and more or less steady state speed is quite large.
Would you say I would also benefit from doing 50's and 100's on longer rest (what is longer rest? 1-2 minutes?), or should I actually do longer high intensity sets (250m for instance?) or what would you suggest? And if you could explain why please.
Sorry OP, don't mean to hijack your thread :)

Well, I must say you're doing quite well for being so new to swimming, so I'd say you have a bit of natural talent for the sport. In your case, I would think you simply need a good mix of training, i.e. some sprints, some long sets, some medium-long sets. BTW, when we say "set", that means 10 x 100 or whatever, and then each 100 in the set is called a "repeat", not a set. You might try something like an 800 m warm-up, 9 x 200 m free on :30 rest, 8 x 25 m on :30 rest, then 200 m easy cool-down. "Long rest" is very relative to the distance and I haven't seen a precise definition that I can recall. I think most would agree that, in my hypothetical workout, you're getting a lot more rest on the 8 x 25 than on the 9 x 200. A "true long rest" set would something like 5 x 100 m on 6:30 such that you're getting a full 5 min rest; prob most tri guys don't need to go quite to that extreme.

Keep up the good work!!!


"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."
Quote Reply