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Crawl technique (freestyle swimming) - Arms position underwater

 

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JuanjoNTP

Nov 12, 13 15:38

Post #1 of 54 (5653 views)
Crawl technique (freestyle swimming) - Arms position underwater Quote | Reply

First chapter from a serie that me and my team mates are going to do.

http://youtu.be/8ioWtWV9r2w

-------------------------------------

JuanjoNTP (@JuanjoNTP)
http://www.ironman-finisher.com


sp1ke

Nov 12, 13 18:13

Post #2 of 54 (5549 views)
Re: Crawl technique (freestyle swimming) - Arms position underwater [JuanjoNTP] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

It's a nice video and it does a great job in explaining most of the important stuff!
Minor detail but the only thing I don't agree with is the focus on the pulling with the palm of the hand and that bend in the wrist. I find that focusing too much on that introduces unnecessary tension in the entire arm and it's energy wasted. I prefer to keep the hand relaxed and one way of achieving that is to avoid cupping the hand and to keep those fingers slightly separated in their natural configuration. You won't lose any power in the pull and you'll save energy which is otherwise lost because it does not contribute to forward propulsion. As an experiment, try rotating your arm with a clenched fist and notice how that feels compared to when you keep your hand relaxed. Tension in the hand usually extends all the way up and your entire arm becomes stiff.

One of my coaches used to make this weird analogy to swimming like an amputee ;) i.e. basically ignore everything below the elbow.


realAlbertan

Nov 12, 13 19:02

Post #3 of 54 (5479 views)
Re: Crawl technique (freestyle swimming) - Arms position underwater [JuanjoNTP] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Gary Hall Sr does a better job explaining this stuff (albeit in english).

___________________________________________
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Canadian Record Holder 35-39M - 400 & 1500 m Freestyle/200 m Butterfly


SallyShortyPnts

Nov 12, 13 22:08

Post #4 of 54 (5391 views)
Re: Crawl technique (freestyle swimming) - Arms position underwater [realAlbertan] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

realAlbertan wrote:
Gary Hall Sr does a better job explaining this stuff (albeit in english).


X2.


Wag More, Bark Less


JuanjoNTP

Nov 12, 13 22:15

Post #5 of 54 (5385 views)
Re: Crawl technique (freestyle swimming) - Arms position underwater [SallyShortyPnts] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

SallyShortyPnts wrote:
realAlbertan wrote:
Gary Hall Sr does a better job explaining this stuff (albeit in english).


X2.

Of course, Gary Hall Sr. is one of the greatest trainers and his son was a reference for me.
I don't pretend to get compared with them, I just want to help beginners to swim better, that's my goal.

Thanks for comments.

-------------------------------------

JuanjoNTP (@JuanjoNTP)
http://www.ironman-finisher.com


realAlbertan

Nov 12, 13 22:23

Post #6 of 54 (5379 views)
Re: Crawl technique (freestyle swimming) - Arms position underwater [SallyShortyPnts] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

He is a great host. Been to his old place twice.

___________________________________________
http://en.wikipedia.org/...eoesophageal_fistula
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_palsy
Canadian Record Holder 35-39M - 400 & 1500 m Freestyle/200 m Butterfly


Salmon Steve

Nov 13, 13 0:36

Post #7 of 54 (5335 views)
Re: Crawl technique (freestyle swimming) - Arms position underwater [JuanjoNTP] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

 

Sorry - deleeeeeted.

:)

Ps that pool stroke sucks in OW.

XX

(This post was edited by Salmon Steve on Nov 13, 13 1:14)


JuanjoNTP

Nov 13, 13 4:58

Post #8 of 54 (5175 views)
Re: Crawl technique (freestyle swimming) - Arms position underwater [Salmon Steve] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Salmon Steve wrote:

Sorry - deleeeeeted.

:)

Ps that pool stroke sucks in OW.

XX

Excuse me, which is your best time in... i.e. 1500m ?

-------------------------------------

JuanjoNTP (@JuanjoNTP)
http://www.ironman-finisher.com


ajthomas

Nov 13, 13 8:09

Post #9 of 54 (5046 views)
Re: Crawl technique (freestyle swimming) - Arms position underwater [JuanjoNTP] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

JuanjoNTP wrote:
Salmon Steve wrote:


Sorry - deleeeeeted.

:)

Ps that pool stroke sucks in OW.

XX


Excuse me, which is your best time in... i.e. 1500m ?

I kind of agree though I might have put it more delicately. Front quadrant with a glide doesn't translate well in a more turbulent (than a pool) environment.

Steve's wife is a 3 x Olympian since you asked.


Big

Nov 13, 13 9:28

Post #10 of 54 (4965 views)
Re: Crawl technique (freestyle swimming) - Arms position underwater [ajthomas] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

ajthomas wrote:
JuanjoNTP wrote:
Salmon Steve wrote:


Sorry - deleeeeeted.

:)

Ps that pool stroke sucks in OW.

XX


Excuse me, which is your best time in... i.e. 1500m ?


I kind of agree though I might have put it more delicately. Front quadrant with a glide doesn't translate well in a more turbulent (than a pool) environment.

Steve's wife is a 3 x Olympian since you asked.




I liked the video and think that the key concepts make for an easy transition to open water swimming where you can just rotate a touch less and turnover a little faster...my key take away if I am looking at this is the timing of the shoulder rotation...

I see a lot of people fall behind at least on one side of there stoke (ususally the side they don't breath to as well)...The shoulder isn't getting up and foward far enough in the recovery before they start there catch/pull with the lead arm...

It is pretty tough to catch and get into a high elbow pull if you recovery arm shoulder is back behind the stroke...leaves you 2 options...push down or or pull into a negative/stretched shoulder angle....neither of which are good...

as stated above though I am not a big fan of the cupped catch...I try to focus on feeling water and using the timing and rhythm of my stroke to catch the water and move into a high elbow pull....


I feel like I natually rotate a little less and ride that front/lead arm less with the shoulder down (lead arm out) when I pick up the tempo and turnover a little...

I can naturally just let my shoulders move toghether instead of hanging onto that catch-up feel...


(This post was edited by Big on Nov 13, 13 9:34)


ZackCapets

Nov 13, 13 9:46

Post #11 of 54 (4938 views)
Re: Crawl technique (freestyle swimming) - Arms position underwater [JuanjoNTP] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

JuanjoNTP wrote:
Salmon Steve wrote:


Sorry - deleeeeeted.

:)

Ps that pool stroke sucks in OW.

XX


Excuse me, which is your best time in... i.e. 1500m ?

He is qualified to make that assessment. Unfortunately he's kinda right, and I say this as someone with a pool-stroke---I end up being slower in OW (relative to my competitors) than I am in the pool . A higher SR (which may result in a somewhat choppy-looking stroke) ends up being faster in open-water. It's like gearing down in a car, or easing the sheet out a bit on the sailboat when going through a rough patch of water/air. It's just a bit "torque'ier" and lets you reaccelerate faster after having been slowed down by a wave than when you're tuned for high-end speed. I have a sneaking suspicion the same approach applies to bicycling as well on rough roads, but I don't have enough evidence to confirm it.

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JuanjoNTP

Nov 13, 13 11:10

Post #12 of 54 (4870 views)
Re: Crawl technique (freestyle swimming) - Arms position underwater [ajthomas] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

ajthomas wrote:
JuanjoNTP wrote:
Salmon Steve wrote:


Sorry - deleeeeeted.

:)

Ps that pool stroke sucks in OW.

XX


Excuse me, which is your best time in... i.e. 1500m ?

I kind of agree though I might have put it more delicately. Front quadrant with a glide doesn't translate well in a more turbulent (than a pool) environment.

Steve's wife is a 3 x Olympian since you asked.

Good to know... :-)
I have friends with Olympics and world championship medals and just being olimpic as Steve's wife is a great honor.

That don't allows him to say that my stroke sucks. Respect.

-------------------------------------

JuanjoNTP (@JuanjoNTP)
http://www.ironman-finisher.com


Devlin

Nov 13, 13 11:24

Post #13 of 54 (4841 views)
Re: Crawl technique (freestyle swimming) - Arms position underwater [JuanjoNTP] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

JuanjoNTP wrote:

That don't allows him to say that my stroke sucks. Respect.

Your reading comprehension is as bad as your temper. He said your stroke sucks in open water, and there is quite a bit of agreement. It may be great in the pool, not so much in open water.

John



Top notch coaching: Francois and Accelerate3 | Follow on Twitter: LifetimeAthlete |


dogmile

Nov 13, 13 11:52

Post #14 of 54 (4788 views)
Re: Crawl technique (freestyle swimming) - Arms position underwater [Devlin] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Anyone want to point to a video of a good OW stroke?


tigerpaws

Nov 13, 13 12:10

Post #15 of 54 (4760 views)
Re: Crawl technique (freestyle swimming) - Arms position underwater [JuanjoNTP] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

-------------------------------------

JuanjoNTP (@JuanjoNTP)
http://www.ironman-finisher.com


Is this the 'real' Ironman-Finisher? Holdy smoke pleased to be making your acquaintance fine sire! An real irondman finisher! I think your stroking is amazing and I totally have respects. Keep it real dawg, stay true to da streets yo.


Perseus

Nov 13, 13 13:08

Post #16 of 54 (4678 views)
Re: Crawl technique (freestyle swimming) - Arms position underwater [dogmile] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

dogmile wrote:
Anyone want to point to a video of a good OW stroke?

I'd love to see a video also. I'm a really bad swimmer and I've decided I'm going to work really hard on my technique in hopes of a massive improvement in the next 12 months.


Salmon Steve

Nov 13, 13 14:46

Post #17 of 54 (4601 views)
Re: Crawl technique (freestyle swimming) - Arms position underwater [JuanjoNTP] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

 
I apologise if you mis-read my post...I was commenting about your stroke not you. Just so we're quite clear.

To add a little more to what I posted, I've seen so many people with beautiful pool strokes just like yours (you do have lovely glide, rotation...list goes on) but a lot of those same people struggle in open water as they're unable to deconstruct their stroke and put it back together to suit the conditions on the day which aren't following a black line up and down in a pool. As some have mentioned, the most obvious is that lingering glide & slow turnover, you'd get knocked all over the show in chop.

I don't have a video here at work of what a good OW stroke looks like, lots at home but not back there until the weekend now.

Try searching Gerry Rodrigues out on the interweb - he has some of the best knowledge there is on OW. If you can find footage of Cory Hutchings from down these parts he was pretty spectacular too.

Again apologies for offending you.


JuanjoNTP

Nov 13, 13 22:30

Post #18 of 54 (4458 views)
Re: Crawl technique (freestyle swimming) - Arms position underwater [Salmon Steve] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Salmon Steve wrote:
I apologise if you mis-read my post...I was commenting about your stroke not you. Just so we're quite clear.

To add a little more to what I posted, I've seen so many people with beautiful pool strokes just like yours (you do have lovely glide, rotation...list goes on) but a lot of those same people struggle in open water as they're unable to deconstruct their stroke and put it back together to suit the conditions on the day which aren't following a black line up and down in a pool. As some have mentioned, the most obvious is that lingering glide & slow turnover, you'd get knocked all over the show in chop.

I don't have a video here at work of what a good OW stroke looks like, lots at home but not back there until the weekend now.

Try searching Gerry Rodrigues out on the interweb - he has some of the best knowledge there is on OW. If you can find footage of Cory Hutchings from down these parts he was pretty spectacular too.

Again apologies for offending you.

I'm sorry Steve, it is understood.
It's been a miss understanding by my side, I know my English is so and so... I'm still improving it.

You have to know that I've been swimming all my live, now I'm 37.
I'm from Spain, and I've been also at my national team (not Olympic) many times, so I think that I know swimming and its tips a bit.

Knowadays I swim OW and I do triathlons, IM, etc.
I know by hart how to adapt swimming stroke in OW.

By the other hand I did this video because know I have friends from many different places, and they are beginners (ages from 30-40) so the need clear messages to begin to have a certain safety while swimming, so I just want to help them with some simple topics to make them feel more confortable.( first in the pool, and later in OW)
This is the goal of my video, and I put it here because if anybody else can take any profit from it, I'd be happy.

Thanks you all for comments .

-------------------------------------

JuanjoNTP (@JuanjoNTP)
http://www.ironman-finisher.com


JuanjoNTP

Nov 14, 13 8:27

Post #19 of 54 (4278 views)
Re: Crawl technique (freestyle swimming) - Arms position underwater [JuanjoNTP] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

We will do a special chapter in OW.

-------------------------------------

JuanjoNTP (@JuanjoNTP)
http://www.ironman-finisher.com


JuanjoNTP

Nov 14, 13 13:11

Post #20 of 54 (4161 views)
Re: Crawl technique (freestyle swimming) - Arms position underwater [JuanjoNTP] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

I wish i could help one beginner at least.
That would be great for me.

-------------------------------------

JuanjoNTP (@JuanjoNTP)
http://www.ironman-finisher.com


JuanjoNTP

Nov 14, 13 15:13

Post #21 of 54 (4101 views)
Re: Crawl technique (freestyle swimming) - Arms position underwater [Perseus] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Perseus wrote:
dogmile wrote:
Anyone want to point to a video of a good OW stroke?

I'd love to see a video also. I'm a really bad swimmer and I've decided I'm going to work really hard on my technique in hopes of a massive improvement in the next 12 months.

Go for it!!
The time you invest in technique is better than just swimming a big amount of miles.

You'll get better result and you will improve your speed and your breath as well to begin bike sector in better conditions.

-------------------------------------

JuanjoNTP (@JuanjoNTP)
http://www.ironman-finisher.com


JuanjoNTP

Nov 15, 13 4:31

Post #22 of 54 (3997 views)
Re: Crawl technique (freestyle swimming) - Arms position underwater [dogmile] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

That would be great also!

-------------------------------------

JuanjoNTP (@JuanjoNTP)
http://www.ironman-finisher.com


Beachboy

Nov 15, 13 5:09

Post #23 of 54 (3972 views)
Re: Crawl technique (freestyle swimming) - Arms position underwater [JuanjoNTP] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

The video is great, thanks for the tips.......keep them coming!

Don't get suck into the slowtwitch snobby "I'm the best" bs....thanks again.

Rocky Mountain "Lazy M" Dope Farm

Don't think just get it done!


JuanjoNTP

Nov 15, 13 8:01

Post #24 of 54 (3912 views)
Re: Crawl technique (freestyle swimming) - Arms position underwater [Beachboy] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Thank you for your comments!! :-)

-------------------------------------

JuanjoNTP (@JuanjoNTP)
http://www.ironman-finisher.com


tjfry

Nov 15, 13 8:14

Post #25 of 54 (3897 views)
Re: Crawl technique (freestyle swimming) - Arms position underwater [Salmon Steve] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

Salmon Steve wrote:

I apologise if you mis-read my post...I was commenting about your stroke not you. Just so we're quite clear.

To add a little more to what I posted, I've seen so many people with beautiful pool strokes just like yours (you do have lovely glide, rotation...list goes on) but a lot of those same people struggle in open water as they're unable to deconstruct their stroke and put it back together to suit the conditions on the day which aren't following a black line up and down in a pool. As some have mentioned, the most obvious is that lingering glide & slow turnover, you'd get knocked all over the show in chop.


Again apologies for offending you.

I think that's the key clarification. There isn't a "open water stroke" vs a "pool stroke", but better swimmers do adjust there stroke to match the conditions they swim in. If the water is smooth, the stroke in the video is just fine, but if there is chop or current or waves then it helps to change your stroke and tempo to match the conditions.

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