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Couple basic training/pacing questions
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First of all, I want to give a huge shout out to Trainerroad. Not that it's any mystery, but WOW that stuff works. My virtual FTP has risen almost 30% in only 5 weeks of training.

I also noticed that as my FTP goes up........... my FTHR goes down(started high 160s, now high 150s). Is this normal? It makes sense to me; more power with less effort is good. But I was curious about that.

The other question is about using my FTHR to pace on the bike. One of my biggest problems as a triathlete is going out too hard on the bike, so this year I really want to try to get my pacing dialed in. I have a Oly in late May, and a 70.3 in September. Do you guys use any certain percentages og FTHR for pacing races of that distance?

Thanks in advance!
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Re: Couple basic training/pacing questions [Julebag] [ In reply to ]
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It is normal that your heart rate will go down for any given power number as your FTP increases.

It's not normal (in my opinion) that your FTHR would go down. Maybe you're not pushing yourself as hard? In my personal experience I found it actually went up very gradually (i.e. not as fast as my FTP went up in terms of %).

If your Oly and 70.3 are flat races then pacing the bike by heart rate can be a good idea (assuming you don't have a powermeter). If it's hilly you have to pay close attention to RPE as well as heart rate as heart rate generally lags the effort you're putting out. For Olys many people like to just feel out the pacing without using heart rate so don't feel you have to use it.

A suggestion for finding your 70.3 pacing by heart rate:

  1. Do your FTP test a month or so before the race
  2. After a couple days ride at 75% of FTP for 20 minutes and see where your heart rate is at. You can do the same for 80 and 85% of FTP.
  3. In subsequent bike/run sessions try riding mostly at those intensities (by heart rate) for your key long bike sessions and do a 15-30 minute run afterwards
  4. Take notes on how the pacing for each felt and choose your race plan off that.

For your Oly I'd probably recommend just going by feel and seeing what happens. It might be more fun if you're not looking at your heart rate the whole time.
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Re: Couple basic training/pacing questions [dado0583] [ In reply to ]
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dado0583 wrote:
It is normal that your heart rate will go down for any given power number as your FTP increases.

It's not normal (in my opinion) that your FTHR would go down. Maybe you're not pushing yourself as hard? In my personal experience I found it actually went up very gradually (i.e. not as fast as my FTP went up in terms of %).

I will say that my test I did last night may have not been balls to the wall, but my second test(the first of two times that my suggested FTHR was lowered) was without a doubt the hardest effort of the three times I've tested. If I had eaten anything recently, there's no doubt it would have been all over my bike :)

Thanks for the info!
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Re: Couple basic training/pacing questions [Julebag] [ In reply to ]
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Awesome work, that's a huge improvement! Regarding your HR, which test did you do? The 8 minute or 20 minute? Sometimes as you get more fit, it will simply take a little longer for your HR to max out, and so the 8 minute test can provide a rather low reading for LTHR.

Still, it is common for LTHR to go down as you get more fit, but it doesn't happen with everyone nor will it happen consistently with each FTP improvement.

HR is tricky because so many things can affect it, especially on big rides/races like a 70.3. Nerves alone can have you running 10-15 beats higher on race day, which can make pacing yourself difficult. While staying within 80-90% of your LTHR is usually a good strategy for 70.3s, you really have to listen to your body throughout the race and make adjustments as you go. If you're at 80% and it feels like you're on your limit, you need to slow down. If you're at 90% and you feel like you're not even working, pick it up a bit, but make sure to listen to your body.

Professional Mountain Biker and Community Manager at TrainerRoad - Cycling's Most Effective Training Tool
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Re: Couple basic training/pacing questions [Julebag] [ In reply to ]
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I was going to ask the same question. I tested twice in the last 6 weeks. Ftp went up both times (12 total) and LTHR went down both also. (5 beats total).
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Re: Couple basic training/pacing questions [Trevor DeRuise] [ In reply to ]
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Trevor DeRuise wrote:
Regarding your HR, which test did you do? The 8 minute or 20 minute? Sometimes as you get more fit, it will simply take a little longer for your HR to max out, and so the 8 minute test can provide a rather low reading for LTHR.

Thanks for the info. Each time I tested I used the 20 min test.

I am now a month out from my race. I haven't tested in a month or so, but the workouts are still pretty challenging so my FTP improvements may have leveled off a bit. I rode "Eichorn" last night which had me doing 2 X 20 @ right about 90% of FTP. My heart rate during these 20 min sets varied from the 155-to around 160. I'm wondering if this might be a good starting point for pacing my Oly at the end of next month(a pretty flat course by the way)??
I know that heart rate pacing isn't perfect, and there has to be a certain "listen to your body" aspect, but as someone who has struggled with cooking the bike in the past, I really want to do my best to keep myself reigned in.

Thanks,
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Re: Couple basic training/pacing questions [Julebag] [ In reply to ]
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I think you nailed it with the "listen to your body" aspect. I would say the only way you can really be confident about gauging a 70.3 effort on HR is by having done that exact 70.3 before (maybe even several times) and have the HR data from that. Temperature, elevation, the effects of competition, etc. will all play a role in altering your HR from what you are used to on your trainer. So I'd recommend using your HR data from training as a good starting point, but be open to adjusting your efforts on the fly while listening very closely to your body.

Professional Mountain Biker and Community Manager at TrainerRoad - Cycling's Most Effective Training Tool
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