Mine didn't track accurately... and neither did most everybody's on this thread. My training partner's is accurate though.

Remember... in order to know if your KICKR is off is to put a bike with a non-hub based PM on it... and compare KICKR power to EXTERNAL PM power through either TR, PP or a head unit.

There are a lot of people who are blissfully ignorant about whether it is accurate or not. I was one of them... till I read this thread.

I have 4 friends that have them... and not one of them have any idea if theirs is accurate or not... and DON'T CARE :)

I doubt they are happy they know me... but the the truth hurts sometimes :)

if you will not use a power meter in real life then it is fine.
when you do your ftp test and trainerroad training on the unit without a kickr it will be offset by the 20-30w
so if anybody ever asks you what you think your ftp is you just have to subtract 30 from it.

however I use my garmin 500 to pull the data into other power programs and strava then it is giving conflicting info with my on road data.

also this might be a moot point but if your ftp is inflated,
your training zones will be wider as a percentage of a larger number.

I installed perfpro last night and tested it out, the erg resistance was spot on, stopped the lap and doubled
the percentage and the resistance change was very fast.

will need to play with the workout creator now.

On a lighter note...

Have a look at my KICKR calibration center :)

Note the calibration kit for KICKR on the floor (which was totally useless)... and the $127.00 20kg weight I used to recalculate the slope on my SRM (which is totally HELPFUL!)

The laptop on the right which now runs Perf Pro... and finally has my numbers matching up the way they should.

nice

Nice
What's the white computer cord running up to the handle bars for?

It is an Iphone to HDMI adapter. Also charges the Iphone.

http://www.bonanza.com/...XcucQCFSxp7AodOjgAPw

When I was using TR, I was running TR on my phone and displaying it on the left side TV. Since I went to PP (and laptop)... I just use that adapter as a phone charger.

BTW.... I ordered that O-Synce handlbar controller on this page too. Waiting for it to arrive. I will let you know how it works...

http://perfprostudio.com/...ge=KICKRStudios.html

Nice setup! I did a similar setup with mine. I previously tried the belt tension hack on the kickr which worked for a while, but the offset is now back up to about +8w (vs 23 before). Kickr and power2max connected via Ant+ to perfpro. Trainerroad recording kickr data via iphone/Bluetooth. Garmin 800 recording power2max. I'm happy now! perfpro worked flawlessly the whole workout. Load was set by perfpro to match my power2max. Garmin and perfpro data were on the dot! TR was showing that the kicker was high by 8w-18w at different power levels vs power2max/perfpro. I also noticed the kickr's power readings drifted up by about 5w from about 30 minutes vs 45 minutes. So this drift happened even after the initial warm up drift of around 15w.

I did the hack too (which got me WAY BETTER, like you)... and my CALIBRATION FACTOR between my SRM and KICKR as shown by PP is anywhere from 3-9% high any given time during the workout. I notice that the cool down at the end has them tracking much more closely... maybe 1-3% difference. None of that matters though... as PP uses the SRM as the "source"... and the numbers are spot on.

I will continue to be a TR user. I like the format and I can see the workout better with the laptop sitting about 6 feet from my bike (clear from the sweat zone), but I did go ahead and pay for the PerfPro just as I really appreciate Drew not waiting on Wahoo (who knows what is going on with that group) to get something that works. I am starting to learn a bit more as you all have stated it has a lot of flexibility built into the application (lots of buttons and check boxes) to fine tune one's training settings. It's not a hard application to learn. I've now made the same workouts that I use in TR for PerfPro.

Speaking of Wahoo. What the heck is going on over there? Last I've seen was on their FB page stating to someone asking that they did put in the feature in the last IOS app update for power meter control but have not released an official firmware update. When I tried the Secret Swipe for the utility app over the weekend it did not show the previous firmware updates. In fact I got a popup message on my phone that the firmware server wasn't available or something to that effect. Not sure if that was just for my situation or if that is the case for everyone at the moment.

I still hope Nate and gang over at TR will get this incorporated into their application soon.

Crazy question but what do think would be the impact, if any, with mine already having the Kickr firmware and power meter applied to the Kickr and now using PerfPro application applied control?
Do you think there would be a conflict between the two?

I haven't seen any and you can independently switch on/off PerfPro control and/or Kickr control.

But personally, I think the PerfPro implementation is better than the Kickr one. Here's a couple of charts from two recent workouts.

The first (white) one is with PerfPro reading the Vectors and adjusting what it asks of the Kickr. The power control seems to take a minute to get going at all, then tracks perfectly.



The second (black and blue) is from TrainerRoad with the Kickr firmware reading the Vectors and making the corrections. It takes ~5 minutes to align with the desired load and also drifts around during the workout.


For what it's worth, having used PerfPro for a week or so now, I'm growing to like its flexibility, and the workout editor is great, but I still find the interface visually confusing and inelegant compared to TrainerRoad.

Since I bought into PerfPro I think I will use it tonight instead of TR. Tuesday's I do a simple 4 x 8 and have created that workout for PerfPro. I am looking forward to giving it a try. I noticed the workout last week I did not select the ERG option and thought something felt a little strange during the workout. Despite not actually being in ERG and thinking I was I held to the workout pretty close. :-) Amazing because I typically do not hold cadence / pace / intensity without having to really focus.

I made a comment and question about accessing the Kickr firmware in the Wahoo Utility app. I tried again last night and saw the variety of versions available with a new one .30 marked private so it must have just been my phone connection the two times I tried and could not connect. I am not doing anymore firmware updates. Like you said Martin I am starting to have more faith in PP or TR to incorporate this into their applications.

Since I bought PP... I have not opened the Wahoo App at all. I de-coupled the KICKR from my SRM first.

I have used only PP for the last 7-10 days or so.

No plans to update my KICKR firmware any time soon.

If the TR fix comes in soon... I will try that.

For now... very happy with PP.

Felt - I got that same weird message over the weekend. Then it worked the next day. Who knows what goes on with Wahoo...............

Speaking of Wahoo, while I no longer see Wahoo making note of the Kickr's accuracy, back when they were first introducing it in August 2012 DC Rainmaker had this to say. It would appear that they have missed the mark by a good bit.


"Power Measurement:
The unit does not require a calibration procedure to measure power. The trainer includes an internal thermocouple to self calibrate the strain gauge based on temperature variations.
From an accuracy standpoint, they are going with an advertised measurement of within +/- 2%. However, they are trying to get it down to being lab quality power measurement and believe they can get it within 1 or 2 watts at most normal wattage ranges (which they defined as 200-400 watts). The unit technically measures across 4,000 points, allowing accuracy within .5 watts. However, today the various protocols only broadcast to the nearest full watt (1w)."

Hugh

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Genetics load the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger.

To quote Bob Uecker from major League." juuuuust a bit outside"


I noticed TR has an update for the iPhone/iPad. Any word if this incorporates the new software to control the kickr?

Don't see any changes to kickr settings on the iphone app.

Sorry if this has been explained earlier but I couldn't see it. I have the updated firmware which I think is still beta, but then I've read that the firmware is now public? Anyway, it's the 1.3.26 version. I've then turned bluetooth off and on again, and unplugged the power to the kickr then plugged back in. I then open up the Wahoo app and select sensors and click on the Kickr. I can't see any option "Control with ANT+ Power Meter" though. Have I done something wrong, or is this no longer an option? I have a Quarq that I'd like to be able to use to the control the Kickr as it's reading about 10w too high.

If I can;t select this option, is it possible to re-load the old firmware version?

Don't give up just yet :-)

The option became available in the last Wahoo Fitness app update (v5.5.1).

1. You've updated the firmware already - good
2. You've turned Bluetooth off and then back on - good
3. You have the latest version of the Wahoo Fitness app - ?


Edit: removed the images because they were way too large for this thread. Hope it is not out of line to direct to my blog page instead.
http://thecyclingaddiction.blogspot.com/...ower-meter-beta.html

If you get to this point power meter control is now working. If you choose not to use the Wahoo Fitness app you do not have to open the program. Meaning if you use something like TrainerRoad you can simply open TR and the ERG mode should be controlled by your Quarq.

Mess with it a bit more and hopefully you can get it to work. Also note that even though Wahoo has put this into the latest app update they have not officially made a public statement about using the option and I think they are still working on an official firmware update. All other firmware editions for power meter control are beta, but I have been using .26 with a Quarq since February with success.

It is possible that the early models tracked better, but the overall design seems flawed. The use of a rubber belt as a key component of the drivetrain is a prime candidate for the cause of the fluctuations. I really don't understand why they didn't go for a direct drive. All they had to do was place the LG spindle in line with the cassette and then no need for the belt. If you look at the Velotron, that is how it is done there.

Unless the QC of these devices has really gone down the crapper, I really don't get his raving reviews for this device. It seems like he was so intent on getting rid of wires, that he was willing to overlook a lot of deficiencies. Not to knock his reviews as he usually has a lot of good information in them, but his review of the Garmin 1000 kept me away from it for quite some time. I just happened to pick on up anyway and really like it a lot. Sometimes it's the little things (like much faster response time for the interface) that can make a bigger difference than lack of significant upgrades over previous models.

Felt_Rider: Thanks for your help in trying get us Quarq users squared away. I followed you instructions to the letter, installing the .26 version firmware, doing the USB on/off and Kickr on/off steps, etc. and could never get the "green dot" to show up in Wahoo showing that my Quarq was connected to the Kickr and running it. I uninstalled and reinstalled the .26 firmware several more times to no luck. Any ideas on what I might be doing wrong? I know that the Quarq is not controlling the Kickr because I'm still seeing the wattage discrepancy during my workouts. Thanks so much.

But then you would want a heavier (or larger) flywheel. Perhaps replacing the belt with a chain would solve the Kickr's shortcomings. We need a tinkerer to give this a shot and report back to us! Potential upgrade kit???

On the latest Wahoo Fitness App you are not seeing the screen below? Instead of a green dot there is now a red (not connected) or green (connected) power icon to the right of the Kickr Sensor. Green lightning bolt with rotation arrows encircled.

yes it is unfortunate that there has not been a bad review, then again there are no bad food blog reviews for very obvious reason.

Even when the Wahoo Apps shows it's connected to my P2M, it's only successfully worked once in controlling the power of the kickr based on the power from the P2M.

Thanks for the screen capture. I'll test it out when I get home. Last I tested it, I believe that I had that lightning bold with circle highlighted, but the power between Kickr and Quarq was not synced up even after a few minutes of riding. I'll double check tonight though to make sure. Appreciate your help in getting me there. Was hoping not to have to buy PP, but it might be worth it even just to maintain my sanity and for the easy workout creator.