Continue with Flos, or Switch to HED...

Nov 29, 17 10:17

Post #1 of 42 (5717 views)

So, Gerlatch and the crew of HED advocates are persuading me... When HED wheels are on sale, they are an incredible value.

I currently have a set of Flo carbon clincher 60/90 wheels, and I am planning to go to a disc in back. (I am not doing a wheel cover.) I am happy with the braking and looks of the Flo wheels, though the thought of the aluminum braking on the HEDs has appeal. If I switched to HED, I would be giving up the CC panache, gaining a little weight, and probably getting a little slower. I am curious to hear thoughts. These are the three scenarios...

Flo Disc - $950
HED Jet 9 / Disc - $1,235-$1,560 (can offset by selling my Flo wheels)
HED H3 Plus / Disk Plus - $1,560

The upside to the Flo is mostly simplicity and speed. It is just one wheel, and I do not have to mess with selling anything. And, I still have the rear 90 if I want to use it.

The upside to the HEDs is that I get the better braking. Net is probably a lot cheaper. And, I can easily switch wheels with my road bike without also messing with brake pads.

Are the HED Jet Black wheels worth the extra $300 over the Jet Plus? Regular aluminum brake tracks have seemed more than enough for me. And, I have not really had issues with my CC brake tracks either, though I have never ridden wet.

What about an H3 Plus up front. Are those significantly better or different from a Jet 9 Plus? If so, any issues about having a Plus up front mixed with a Black in back? (It does not look like HED offers an H3 Black.)

Re: Continue with Flos, or Switch to HED... [exxxviii] [ In reply to ]

Nov 29, 17 10:31

Post #2 of 42 (5685 views)

Option 4-switch to Flo alloy braking surface. Get essentially all of the benefits of HED but save a few hundred bucks. I had Flo, switched to HED and then switched back to Flo for that very reason (and because I noticed no differences in braking or speed between the brands). Can't be wrong with either Company but the savings with Flo isn't insignificant.

Re: Continue with Flos, or Switch to HED... [exxxviii] [ In reply to ]

Nov 29, 17 10:34

Post #3 of 42 (5672 views)

FWIW, the Jet6+ is $880 right now at CC. Enough to make me almost break down and buy them myself, but I should stick with the 5 Express for now.

The point is, ladies and gentleman, that speed, for lack of a better word, is good. Speed is right, Speed works. Speed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit.

Re: Continue with Flos, or Switch to HED... [exxxviii] [ In reply to ]

Nov 29, 17 11:59

Post #4 of 42 (5522 views)

I've been looking at the HED wheels also. Thomas Gerlach has a great write up about them. One thing that has been a bother for me is that my LBS is pushing the Zipp wheels and saying the hubs other wheels aren't as good. I'm not sure how this would impact the wheels. The reason I am looking is I have CogNation wheels and the company is now out of business so if anything goes wrong I am out of luck.
Back to your question, I would go to Thomas's site and read his review/write up on HED wheels.

Re: Continue with Flos, or Switch to HED... [ssummers] [ In reply to ]

Nov 29, 17 12:05

Post #5 of 42 (5503 views)

ssummers wrote:

One thing that has been a bother for me is that my LBS is pushing the Zipp wheels and saying the hubs other wheels aren't as good.

Haha, pushing Zipp wheels based on the quality of the hubs is kind of comical. Those things have been recalled so many times that I have lost count. I doubt I would ever buy Zipp wheels. First, I am not confident they are even fast anymore. Second, their pricing is astronomical compared to other wheels that likely perform to their equal or better. Zipp is becoming the Rudy Project of the wheel world.

Re: Continue with Flos, or Switch to HED... [ssummers] [ In reply to ]

Nov 29, 17 12:05

Post #6 of 42 (5502 views)

LOL @ other hubs aren't as good as Zipp hubs.

Re: Continue with Flos, or Switch to HED... [ssummers] [ In reply to ]

Nov 29, 17 12:11

Post #7 of 42 (5484 views)

HED's hubs: I'm riding my gravel bike with Ardennes. this is a rigid bike with 38mm tires that goes anywhere most people are likely to go on their full MTB bikes, including a lot of sand and rocks, washboard, etc. I promise you that none of my tri bikes will ever see a fifth of what these hubs see and they're basically the same hubs that will go in your aero wheels.

Zipp: you'll get a lot of negative comments on zipp hubs, but really i think most of zipp's bad hub reputation is a holdover from pre-SRAM. one nice thing about SRAM is that all their divisions benefit from the braintrust of the other divisions. truvativ was heavily invested in hub tech, and that SLO office + the old sacsh schweinfurt engineers help zipp forward-going.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Re: Continue with Flos, or Switch to HED... [exxxviii] [ In reply to ]

Nov 29, 17 12:15

Post #8 of 42 (5466 views)

I'm confused as to why you won't use a disc cover and why you're considering a new wheelset for better braking when you currently are satisfied with your braking on the FLO carbon clinchers?

I don't see a lot of value in any of your proposed solutions. I would spend $90 on a disc cover and call it a day.

Re: Continue with Flos, or Switch to HED... [Slowman] [ In reply to ]

Nov 29, 17 12:19

Post #9 of 42 (5454 views)

Slowman wrote:

I think most of zipp's bad hub reputation is a holdover from pre-SRAM.

The big hub recall was for wheels sold from 2010 through 2015. Didn't SRAM acquire Zipp around 2007? And they also had a skewer recall for later wheels.

Re: Continue with Flos, or Switch to HED... [exxxviii] [ In reply to ]

Nov 29, 17 12:20

Post #10 of 42 (5449 views)

I'll admit to completely drinking the HED cool-aid. i damn near abuse my wheels, and they've never let me down.

Re: Continue with Flos, or Switch to HED... [exxxviii] [ In reply to ]

Nov 29, 17 12:27

Post #11 of 42 (5425 views)

exxxviii wrote:

Slowman wrote:

I think most of zipp's bad hub reputation is a holdover from pre-SRAM.

The big hub recall was for wheels sold from 2010 through 2015. Didn't SRAM acquire Zipp around 2007? And they also had a skewer recall for later wheels.

yes, it was post-acquisition. and it's certainly not SRAM's only recall. just, i think you buy these companies - having bought a number of them myself along the way - and you trust the brains that you bought (avid for brakes, zipp for wheels, truvativ for cranks, etc.), until presented with a good reason not to trust them. the collaborative effort between divisions is going to take awhile to work itself out.

when zipp first intro'd its 303 for road racing (as i recall) this wheel didn't last one flite of cobbles in testing by euro pros. didn't even last 5 miles. there's a mountain of difference between zipp wheels then and zipp wheels now.

so, no, HED hubs do not deserve to be debased to zipp's. but i would gladly ride either company's hubs today.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Re: Continue with Flos, or Switch to HED... [exxxviii] [ In reply to ]

Nov 29, 17 12:42

Post #12 of 42 (5366 views)

Thanks. It's good to get other opinions. The HED wheels are a great price and have great reviews. It's confusing to me why I would want Zipp over HED since they seem equal for the most part.

Re: Continue with Flos, or Switch to HED... [Slowman] [ In reply to ]

Nov 29, 17 12:43

Post #13 of 42 (5359 views)

Thanks. With so much information out there it seems almost impossible to make a decision. With HED's prices I could almost justify a Jet 6/9 combo and a disc for the same price as Zipps.

Re: Continue with Flos, or Switch to HED... [exxxviii] [ In reply to ]

Nov 29, 17 12:50

Post #14 of 42 (5337 views)

I have Jet 6+'s on my Speed Concept and my wife's P2 has Flo full carbon 60/90. I have no idea which is faster but I have noticed a few practical differences:

1. The Jet 6+'s have a wider rim than the Flo's (hence the "+"), so I had to adjust the brakes more to make room. No big deal.

2. The Jet 6+'s make a constant whoosh sound when riding. The Flo's are silent. No big deal - just an observation.

3. The Jet 6+'s do have more "bite" when braking compared to the full carbon Flo's, no surprise. However, the Flo's brake just fine - you simply have to squeeze the brake levers harder. I haven't ridden the Flo's in the wet or a steep downhill.

I don't think you can go wrong with either wheel. I think the Flo's look better because they're all black.

Re: Continue with Flos, or Switch to HED... [exxxviii] [ In reply to ]

Nov 29, 17 13:02

Post #15 of 42 (5299 views)

@Andy, if you see this, I got your PM, but I could not reply. Your profile does not allow PMs. So, I sent you an email.

Re: Continue with Flos, or Switch to HED... [Toby] [ In reply to ]

Nov 29, 17 13:22

Post #16 of 42 (5263 views)

Toby wrote:

FWIW, the Jet6+ is $880 right now at CC. Enough to make me almost break down and buy them myself, but I should stick with the 5 Express for now.

Thanks for the reminder. I just got a DM from an interested member asking about thoughts at the $1049 price which I gave. At $880 on CC it again becomes almost a no-brainer again. I'll DM again and correct myself now.

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Re: Continue with Flos, or Switch to HED... [ssummers] [ In reply to ]

Dec 2, 17 12:48

Post #17 of 42 (4896 views)

ssummers wrote:

Thanks. It's good to get other opinions. The HED wheels are a great price and have great reviews. It's confusing to me why I would want Zipp over HED since they seem equal for the most part.

There was a time when Zipp was the innovative market leader and earned the premium pricing. But, I am not convinced that their current products are any better than well-known wheels at 1/3 the cost. In fact, I suspect that Zipp wheels are likely slower than a lot of their cheaper competing products. Zipp has reverted from marketing its straight-ahead performance to intangibles like feel, comfort, handling, and braking. These are good things, but they can also be imaginary things, like the descriptions on the back of a red wine bottle label. There is no way that I would spend an extra $2K for Zipp or Enve wheels based on their marketing claims.

I traded messages with a guy from HED and have read everything I can find here from folks like Tom A. and Thomas Gerlach about their HED wheels and the tires they prefer.

I decided to buy a set of Jet 9 & Disc Black wheels. But, I waited a day too long and lost the awesome MyBikeShop sale. So, it is on to find or wait for the next great HED wheel sale. I will miss the colored decals on my Flo wheels that complement my frame color scheme...

Re: Continue with Flos, or Switch to HED... [exxxviii] [ In reply to ]

Dec 2, 17 12:57

Post #18 of 42 (4886 views)

When you have hit peak aero, you have to focus on other things. There’s more to racing than just aero everything.

Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/

Re: Continue with Flos, or Switch to HED... [BryanD] [ In reply to ]

Dec 2, 17 13:09

Post #19 of 42 (4870 views)

BryanD wrote:

When you have hit peak aero, you have to focus on other things. There’s more to racing than just aero everything.

I'm not peak aero yet... This but a little part of my multi-prong plan. My goal for 2018 is to ride about 1 MPH faster in an HIM than I did this year. So, part is optimizing equipment (the rear disc). Second, I need to lift my FTP another 10W (I still want to get it a lot higher than that, but I am an old man now.) And third, I need to improve my position on the bike a lot.

Re: Continue with Flos, or Switch to HED... [exxxviii] [ In reply to ]

Dec 2, 17 13:19

Post #20 of 42 (4846 views)

I was talking about Zipp

Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/

Re: Continue with Flos, or Switch to HED... [BryanD] [ In reply to ]

Dec 2, 17 13:34

Post #21 of 42 (4829 views)

BryanD wrote:

I was talking about Zipp

Doh, my bad. I did not look which response this was applied to. I agree. Zipp has major brand panache. Enve too. Their pricing is insane, but they look sexy. If my income was another $100K higher, then I could see buying Zipp wheels with my surplus cash. But, that is unlikely to happen. So, I am unlikely to ever buy Zipp wheels, in the same way that I am unlikely to ever buy a $100 bottle of red wine.

Re: Continue with Flos, or Switch to HED... [dktxracer] [ In reply to ]

Dec 2, 17 14:49

Post #22 of 42 (4749 views)

dktxracer wrote:

1. The Jet 6+'s have a wider rim than the Flo's (hence the "+"), so I had to adjust the brakes more to make room. No big deal.

You must not ride a BMC lol. I finally realized why everyone complains about the rear brakes on the TimeMachine when I put on my new HEDs. But other than that I love them.

Re: Continue with Flos, or Switch to HED... [exxxviii] [ In reply to ]

Dec 2, 17 19:42

Post #23 of 42 (4601 views)

Sorry, feel like making this comment although unrelated directly to your specific question. I used a set of Jet 6 plus black wheels last year. No issues with them and felt they were excellent in every way except -I truly dreaded putting a tire on the rim either in the comfort of my garage or along side the road. And every bike I own is run tubeless and I have a compressor. I watched the HED videos on mounting a tire and it made just a small difference in the long somewhat painful experience. It made no difference what tubeless tire or tire/tube I tried to use. It’s a wide tubeless road rim. Ultimately I used Road tubeless tires and Orange Seal and accepted the fact if I flatted in a race game over.

Re: Continue with Flos, or Switch to HED... [DFW_Tri] [ In reply to ]

Dec 2, 17 21:12

Post #24 of 42 (4537 views)

DFW_Tri wrote:

Option 4-switch to Flo alloy braking surface. Get essentially all of the benefits of HED but save a few hundred bucks. I had Flo, switched to HED and then switched back to Flo for that very reason (and because I noticed no differences in braking or speed between the brands). Can't be wrong with either Company but the savings with Flo isn't insignificant.

I’m in the same boat as the OP (currently have a FLO 60/90 CC combo, looking to sell the 90 and get a disc) and I am 90% sure I’ll be going with your option 4. I occasionally check the classifieds for a good deal on a lightly used HED Jet Disc, but haven’t seen anything around the price of a new FLO alloy disc. The specs are near identical to the HED jet disc except the FLO is $650 new.

Yet another possible option - the new Premier Disc is $700. Carbon clincher rather than alloy, which could be a plus or minus depending on your perspective.

Re: Continue with Flos, or Switch to HED... [Northy] [ In reply to ]

Dec 3, 17 5:03

Post #25 of 42 (4391 views)

Northy wrote:

I’m in the same boat as the OP (currently have a FLO 60/90 CC combo, looking to sell the 90 and get a disc) and I am 90% sure I’ll be going with your option 4. I occasionally check the classifieds for a good deal on a lightly used HED Jet Disc, but haven’t seen anything around the price of a new FLO alloy disc. The specs are near identical to the HED jet disc except the FLO is $650 new.

I made the decision and made the order. I really did not put the Flo C+A wheels on my list for 2 reasons. First, they are heavy... much heavier than the HED wheels. Second, I perceive them to be slower than the HEDs, based on the little anecdotal performance tests I could find; I perceived the HED to be more the performance peer of the Flo CC wheels. A set of Jet 9 / Disc HED wheels is lighter than a set of Flo 80 / Disc carbon clincher wheels. That is some serious magic, there.

HEDs are frequently on sale, and when they are on sale, they are cheaper than the Flo CC wheels and close to the Flo C+A pricing. Right now, MyBikeShop has a 30% sale on the HEDs, and you get 40% off if you join their membership. So, at that price, coupled with my other factors above, I went with the HEDs. Also, I spent a little extra to get the Black versions for both the maximal braking and the looks.

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