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Compex, anyone ?
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I did a search and didn't find many things about Compex.
Is it worth to buy it ? It's not a cheap product, but looks miraculous to prevent injury and strenght.
toughts ?

tks
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Re: Compex, anyone ? [MTRIB] [ In reply to ]
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Best kept secret available.....
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Re: Compex, anyone ? [MTRIB] [ In reply to ]
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there doesnt appear to be sufficient evidence that it will prevent injury and even less that it will add any strength to muscles.




who's smarter than you're? i'm!
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Re: Compex, anyone ? [MTRIB] [ In reply to ]
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Great for recovery and warm up but doesn't build muscle. Building muscles is the holy grail of muscle wasting situations such as spinal cord injuries but no one can take the level of pain EMS requires. A team in Ireland have worked out a protocol (based on shivering) to get around this but it's still unpleasant and those tested much preferred to go out for a run instead.
SteveMc
p.s. I have a Cefar, and it has saved me much money in terms of massage. A basic model that has the features mentioned is sufficient.
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Re: Compex, anyone ? [MTRIB] [ In reply to ]
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I have the sport version. After a long run it really helps to relax the quads. Same with calves. Better than a regular TENs unit.

No evidence of building muscle or preventing injury.

For a few dollars more, the Recovery Legs are much better. But they are only for the legs as the compex can be used all over the body.
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Re: Compex, anyone ? [MTRIB] [ In reply to ]
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There is an interesting thread here about it:

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...rum.cgi?post=2673913

Looks like people seem to like it. It seems like an intriguing product but I've had no experience with it.
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Re: Compex, anyone ? [MTRIB] [ In reply to ]
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i have one but only use it seldom. I think it's good to use but sometimes I forget about it and it's un used for a month at a time. It could be almost like stretching. You should do it every day but I probably only get a good stretch 2-3 times a week.

http://www.MattRussellTri.com -Pro Triathlete -Tri Coach

Sponsored by: Skechers | Diamondback | FitPro | Castelli | Knight Wheels 20% off wheels use code: GOMATTRUSSELL!
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Re: Compex, anyone ? [MTRIB] [ In reply to ]
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Compex will build muscle, build size (hypertrophy), and remove neural inhibition. All of this is related to building strength or increasing force production. There are refereed journal articles that point to this. Also, there is a great deal of practical experience among athletes that bears this out. Since one can recruit more muscle (motor units) with NMES (neuromuscular electrical stimulation) than with a maximal voluntary contraction, neural inhibition is more thoroughly removed with NMES. Since most strength gains can be attributed to removing neural inhibition and much much less to increasing the amount of enzymes involved with a muscular contraction, or the number of contractile units in a muscle, Comepx (NMES) is more effective at building "strength". The beauty of this technology is that it can't not work if consistently used. It's very much like any training that you do in that regard.
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Re: Compex, anyone ? [bigdaddy3] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Compex will build muscle, build size (hypertrophy)

Unfortunately, studies do not support that.




who's smarter than you're? i'm!
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Re: Compex, anyone ? [MTRIB] [ In reply to ]
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I have the sport version as well. I absolutely love the recovery program. If you do monster training day after day, imho the recovery program alone is worth the price of the device. Will definitely save you a lot of money in not having to go to a massage therapist.
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Re: Compex, anyone ? [tritimmy] [ In reply to ]
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Tks for all comments
Just order mine....with 90 days return money back, lets see
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Re: Compex, anyone ? [MTRIB] [ In reply to ]
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I've had mine since 2004. I love the recovery program. That's all I really have time to use it for. At the end of the day it's a nice treat for the quads. I usually feel pretty refreshed the next day because of it.
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Re: Compex, anyone ? [veganerd] [ In reply to ]
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I know this is not the forum for bibliographies listing pertinent studies that support or do not support a hypothesis, but I'm listing just one study of many (granted most of the work has been done in Europe). Gondin J et.al. Med Sci Sports Exer 37(8):1291-99, 2005
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Re: Compex, anyone ? [bigdaddy3] [ In reply to ]
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bigdaddy3 wrote:
I know this is not the forum for bibliographies listing pertinent studies that support or do not support a hypothesis, but I'm listing just one study of many (granted most of the work has been done in Europe). Gondin J et.al. Med Sci Sports Exer 37(8):1291-99, 2005

im all for reading studies, but i cant seem to find anything beyond the title.




who's smarter than you're? i'm!
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Re: Compex, anyone ? [bigdaddy3] [ In reply to ]
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bigdaddy3 wrote:
I know this is not the forum for bibliographies listing pertinent studies that support or do not support a hypothesis, but I'm listing just one study of many (granted most of the work has been done in Europe). Gondin J et.al. Med Sci Sports Exer 37(8):1291-99, 2005

The essential question with electrical stimulation and performance is can you get anything with the stimulation that you can't get with volitional training?

No one doubts it's effects in people who have some sort of impairment in their CNS ability to recruit their muscles but that doesn't apply to most able-bodied persons. Whether you can get any gains beyond what you can get with typical volitional training seems equivocal at best, at worse the answer is you can't.

In principal you might because electrical stimulation violates the size principle so you may be training some large, Type II motor units at relatively low forces that otherwise only get recruited when performing high force activities (or in a highly fatigued state).
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Re: Compex, anyone ? [veganerd] [ In reply to ]
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veganerd wrote:
bigdaddy3 wrote:
I know this is not the forum for bibliographies listing pertinent studies that support or do not support a hypothesis, but I'm listing just one study of many (granted most of the work has been done in Europe). Gondin J et.al. Med Sci Sports Exer 37(8):1291-99, 2005


im all for reading studies, but i cant seem to find anything beyond the title.

I couldn't find that specific study available online, but I did find a scholarly review of this and other research done on EST:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/...articles/PMC3175340/

I'm drinking from the fire hose when reading it, but I get the impression that the results are mixed. It would be really useful to see some studies with cyclists using it and measuring their performance change over time while using it.
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Re: Compex, anyone ? [dgran] [ In reply to ]
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On the practical side:

I and others tested the strength and how it changed with strength training for literally tens of thousands of students enrolled in classes in the Kinesiology Department at the University of Wisconsin-Madison. With each student, we tested 1 repetition maximums (1RM) for four exercises. We did this twice, once pre- and once post-exercise program that we had the students follow.

While post-testing for the 1 rep max for the bench press, we assisted the lift with a Compex Strength Program for a dozen individuals. 8 pads – 4 channels were applied to the pectoralis major and the triceps brachii muscles. The voluntary lift was performed in concert with the involuntary contraction produced by the Compex Strength Program. All twelve lifted more weight (at least 2.5% and not more than 15%) when assisted with the Compex Strength Program. An involuntary contraction with E-stim can recruit more motor units than a maximal voluntary contraction. These observations have implications regarding neural inhibition and it’s partial removal.

I measure watts while training on the bike. I’ve experimented over the years with my normal bike training without Compex strength programs and the bike training with Compex strength programs. My wattage held at the anaerobic threshold is ~10% higher when training on the bike and supplementing my training with Compex strength programs than when training on the bike with no E-stim supplementation.
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Re: Compex, anyone ? [MTRIB] [ In reply to ]
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I've been using the Compex for over a year. I started using it in October of 2011. I have seen dramatic increases in my swim, bike, and run.


I'll compare IMWI 2011 and IMWI 2012. Generally the same course, 2011 was a bit warmer and 2012 was more windy. Actual temps and wind speeds I do not remember... I also did IMWI in 2010 (my first IM)

IMWI 2011 - no Compex use
IMWI 2012 - Compex use

Swim
2011 - 58:30 and 11th AG out of water (2 loops)
2012 - 59:17 and 6th AG out of water (1 loop)

Bike
2011 - 5:21:28 and 4th AG off bike
2012 - 5:19:07 and 6th AG off bike

Run
2011 - 3:44:42 and 10th AG finish
2012 - 3:14:55 and 3rd AG finish

2011 Finish Time - 10:12:05 - 10th AG
2012 Finish Time - 9:41:38 - 3rd AG

Yes one could argue that I was more "tenured" of a IM racers but there is no doubt in my mind and I believe the proof is in the results. That without Compex I could not have raced as strong as I did without the added benefit of Compex.

ALSO - - I did a 20 minute all out "power test" in Feb. of 2011 and the same 20 minute "power test" in Feb. of 2012 and saw a 25% increase...same bike (and position), power meter, computer, and trainer. That was with 4 months of training and using Compex. Both times I had the exact same amount of saddle/trainer time before doing my "power test".

For me it's a no brainer to use Compex. Not to mention the added benefits of Active Recovery and Massage. I know several cyclists and triathletes that use Compex and not a single one would stop using it. Not to mention I can do strength or recovery while eating dinner, watching tv, etc with my wife. vs being at the gym more or sitting in an ice bath.

My $0.02

Jeremy Angle
Hammer Nutrition Sponsored Ahtlete (use Client ID 154285 for 15% discount) / Wheel & Sprocket Triathlon Ambassador
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Re: Compex, anyone ? [dgran] [ In reply to ]
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dgran wrote:
I'm drinking from the fire hose when reading it, but I get the impression that the results are mixed. It would be really useful to see some studies with cyclists
For those who are interested in the subject, I would like to recommend the following educational article which is more accessible. I've built a pretty extensive bibliography at this page: http://www.globussht.com/ems-bibliography.

Somebody wrote in this thread that EMS does not build strength: actually it does. Recent metastudies* of all the research available pointed out that differences between research that obtained improvements vs research that didn't obtain improvements: correct stimulation parameters and stimulation intensity. The main factor was stimulation intensity strong enough to recruit at least 50% of the muscle fibers. It's a little bit like the difference using 10-lb vs 100-lb weights.

Please take a look at this page for videos on the use of EMS in sprinting.

Note*:
1. Filipovic A, Kleinöder H, Dörmann U, Mester J. Electromyostimulation--a systematic review of the effects of different electromyostimulation methods on selected strength parameters in trained and elite athletes. J Strength Cond Res. 2012;26(9):2600–2614.
2. Filipovic A, Kleinöder H, Dörmann U, Mester J. Electromyostimulation-a systematic review of the influence of training regimens and stimulation parameters on effectiveness in electromyostimulation training of selected strength parameters - part 2. J Strength Cond Res. 2011;25(11):3218–3238.

Giovanni Ciriani
http://www.GlobusSHT.com
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Re: Compex, anyone ? [MTRIB] [ In reply to ]
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MTRIB wrote:
I did a search and didn't find many things about Compex.
Is it worth to buy it ? It's not a cheap product, but looks miraculous to prevent injury and strenght.
toughts ?

tks
I have one. I use the recovery setting after most races or really hard work outs. Can't tell if it makes a difference.
Makes shaving excusable, otherwise removing those sticky pads can be painful.
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Re: Compex, anyone ? [BayAreaUser] [ In reply to ]
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BayAreaUser wrote:
... Can't tell if it makes a difference...
Are you turning up intensity to a setting as high as possible? The research points out that EMS (electrical muscle stimulation) works if the recruitment of the muscles is greater than 50% (percentage of muscle fibers that are contracting as a result of the stimulation).

I'm the importer of a competing brand that is used by NFL strength and conditioning coaches, and by coaches of world class sprinters. We always recommend users to crank the stimulation intensity up to the maximum of the comfortable and then turn it down a notch. Here is a discussion in a forum where EMS is better known.

Giovanni Ciriani
http://www.GlobusSHT.com
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Re: Compex, anyone ? [bigdaddy3] [ In reply to ]
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bigdaddy3 wrote:
An involuntary contraction with E-stim can recruit more motor units than a maximal voluntary contraction. These observations have implications regarding neural inhibition and it’s partial removal.

Can you cite some research that shows that? I've tested hundreds of people over the years with Estim for various research endeavors sometimes specifically looking at their maximum voluntary force (MVF) vs. maximum Estim force. Most people fall somewhere in roughly the 40 - 60% range of MVF with Estim. Some don't even get to 30% some get to around 80%, I've seen one person that possibly got above 100% of their MVF and again that was really exceptional as the typical outlier is more around 80%. There's plenty of research showing how much force you can get out someone's muscles with Estim and it's usually relatively modest. Very little if any has ever confirmed the claims of the Russian researcher who initially claimed to get supramaximal forces with Estim.

For years our standard protocol also looked at neural inhibition as we had subjects perform maximum efforts and superimposed a brief burst of stimulation on top of the voluntary contraction and again most people were pretty good at recruiting what was available, usually getting above 95%. Although we never explicitly tested it I will say it was often the folks who were endurance athletes who appeared to have some difficulty getting to above 95%. I've always thought it may have been because they are use to chronically activating their muscles at sub-maximal intensities.

I'm not sure how germane it is anyway, most folks seem to use these sorts of machines for "recovery" not for strengthening, which isn't surprising given that producing high enough forces with Estim to get strengthening is typically pretty painful.
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Re: Compex, anyone ? [ThisIsIt] [ In reply to ]
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ThisIsIt wrote:
...Can you cite some research that shows that? ...

I don't know how current you are with EMS research. However, in 2010 there was a world conference on the subject with the foremost researchers in the field. One statement alone from the summary article* refutes what you wrote: "Chronic effects - Strength training by NMES does promote neural and muscular adaptations that are complementary to the well-known effects of voluntary resistance training".

After that, two more recent research articles (2011 and 2012) have pointed out what allowed certain research paper to obtain good results, and why others did not. See my previous post. You also state: "producing high enough forces with Estim to get strengthening is typically pretty painful". That is also not true; it depends on what parameters one uses and how good the machine is at producing those parameters.

Note*:
Article downloadable from my website research page
Maffiuletti NA, Minetto MA, Farina D, Bottinelli R. Electrical stimulation for neuromuscular testing and training: state-of-the art and unresolved issues. Eur. J. Appl. Physiol. 2011;111(10):2391–2397.

Giovanni Ciriani
http://www.GlobusSHT.com
Last edited by: gciriani: Nov 29, 12 14:13
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Re: Compex, anyone ? [MTRIB] [ In reply to ]
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Used it during my three year build up to the National Championships. It works and there is peer-reviewed literature to support their claims. Expensive but worth it depending on what your goals are and how much you are willing to throw at them to achieve them.

life's short. ride hard.
bill
mobile: 404-242-5966
rustylion54@gmail.com
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Re: Compex, anyone ? [tridiver80] [ In reply to ]
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Did you get the Sport or Performance or Elite version?

If you don't mind, I'm going to use your name and Client ID to get 15% discount.
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