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Compete Against Others or Compete Against Yourself (informal Poll)
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While working out on my own this weekend, I was thinks about racing and training and what drives different personalities in training and on race day. I am curious to see what really drives most of you.

I'll start. Largely my interest be it in sport/academics/work has been to push myself to my limit for the things I want to push myself in. If I am ON and feeling like pushing I will dig myself into the ground to the point of breaking (done that too many times, so a bit more experienced and older, I can rein myself in).

I find being out with others is very helpful to pull the final few percent out of me. In a workout with someone stronger, I'll use that as a carrot to push myself, or I'll set the computrainer metal man to a slightly higher wattage than I can achieve to try and chase it. But in head to head battle, it's rare that I care "ENOUGH" about beating the other guy to get 1st on whatever podium. I am generally happy with a second or third if i know I emptied myself. I am not happy with 1st if I knew I could have done better. I can be equally happy with 75th place in a big event knowing that was all I had

But generally, I'll just push myself towards my self generated goals. They might be a time in a race, or stupid things like running 100 days in a row or as was the case last year, the crazy idea to swim 100K per month every month all year.

I "used" to do a ton of racing and thought I would miss it since I have not done a race in 18 months, but I actually find myself not missing head to head competition. Just doing TT's' on the bike, or water against my own times seem to be equally motivating. I was actually a bit surprised by that, but now I realize this is why going back to track in high school, I could not be too bothered if I got a gold or was 4th or 5th in an event. For other guys it was like the end of the world because they were motivated to beat the other guy. I get that mentality, because I can also find myself racing the other guy in the other lane at the pool, or peering at the speed that the guy in the health club is running at beside me (yeah, I know pathetic, but at least I admit it). Maybe I just like to be in the "range" of where the competition is going on. I don't need to win it, but I want to push myself to be in that mix.

Related to this many years ago I have a funny story of this guy who has raced as a pro in cycling and tris. Well the run starts off at 10 min miles and the guy is half stepping me, so pull up even and now we're running 9 min miles, so he starts half stepping me, so I pull even, and now we're going 8:30's, so back to running even and now we're running 7:30's. Pretty soon I am being half stepped at low 6 min mile pace (it's when I used to run reasonably fast), so now I invent an excuse about having to tie my shoes and then we start at 8:30's....and this process itself again...a while later, we're in the low 6's again.

So I end the run, and I said, "You realize what I did to you?". He replied, "No?". I said, "I kept pulling up even with you to see if you'd half step me again, and each time you jacked up the pace and did". He replied, "I can't help it, it does not matter what is going on, I need to be in first place. It can't stop myself from that". I guess that's why he was a pro athlete and not a tourist. Meanwhile, I was just having fun is "2nd/first loser/last place"
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Re: Compete Against Others or Compete Against Yourself (informal Poll) [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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I have thought about this a lot this past year. Why am I training? What are my goals? You wrote about competing against others or ourselves. My situation is I am out to prove that paracyclists can compete very close to "able" bodied cyclists.

I don't do races as my balance isn't the greatest and I don't want to be side by side with someone or in a bunch racing for that spot that doesn't matter. I "race" or do Time Trials. I feel confident in my abilities and I like being out on the road on my own, proving that I belong in the TT. As a paracyclist I am always having to prove myself to others. I live in Ontario Canada and it has been a struggle in the last few years getting paracycling accepted by Ontario Cycling. It is getting a lot better, but last year I had to contact OC to get paracycling added as a division for the TT's I raced. It's not the fault of the organization, they sometimes just don't think about it. The thing I noticed though is when I show up the organizers know who I am. Almost everyone knows that I am the paracyclist, (I wish there were more paracyclists) because I walk with a noticeable limp and I only have limited use of my right arm.

I compete hoping that there maybe others with disabilities or family members racing that day that see me and realize that it maybe possible for them as well. I train hard for these events knowing that others are watching and I don't need pity or having people feel sorry for me, I want them in awe that I can ride and perform well.

Sometimes I wish there were more paracyclists. I do compete against handcyclists and those guys and girls really motivate me to do well.

Everyone knows its easier to try to chase someone, well for me there is never anyone to chase in a TT. I am always the first off just before the junior girls. My motivation is to not let them catch me. Last year in the provincials one of those girls did just that and all I was thinking that it must be easier to chase then to be the first off. I don't care that that she caught me just before the line, I was just amazed at her results.

My results are good enough for me and every TT was a better result then the previous one. I know I can do better this year. Working on all my weaknesses and striving for better results. Sorry for the long response.

Stephan
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Re: Compete Against Others or Compete Against Yourself (informal Poll) [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
I am curious to see what really drives most of you.

Sport quells my anxiety and prevents me from falling into depression.

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
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Re: Compete Against Others or Compete Against Yourself (informal Poll) [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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I think there's a bunch of reasons why I do it. There's some competition with myself which takes me quite a long way but gets boring after a few months of solo training with no racing. Technology like Strava and FTP tests helps to prolong the self competition.

There's definitely some competition with others. That might be group rides, Strava segments, random other riders/runners out on the roads, or races. And in races I'm generally not near a podium but I do like to try and hit a certain time, or a certain percentile finish, or just beat my training partners.

And lastly there's vanity. I train to stay lean and in shape and looking good for my age.

I go through cycles with what motivates me most. I'll get hung up on a personal goal for a while and train mostly solo trying to achieve it. Then I'll get back into group training and enjoy trying to win bragging points off friends. Then I might find I'm bored with endurance training and do some lifting and shorter stuff. The main thing is having enough variety that there's always something to get me out of bed and hitting the road/gym/pool.
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Re: Compete Against Others or Compete Against Yourself (informal Poll) [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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I train for health and my OCD personality.

I race for the social with my wife. I give what I have and could care less how I place.

I love that during races trying to "beat" others makes me give all I can. But after the race, well, ...

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
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Re: Compete Against Others or Compete Against Yourself (informal Poll) [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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When you start you are competing against others as you do not know how good you are. Once you get into serious racing and am talking masters cycling. You find people who won the gene lottery and have bigger motors. Yes to competing, but keep it fun prs are nice.
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Re: Compete Against Others or Compete Against Yourself (informal Poll) [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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I compete for myself and my health although I do enjoy mashing by someone.

I simultaneously feel pride that I'm doing better and also proud of them for pushing themselves.


I like races.
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Re: Compete Against Others or Compete Against Yourself (informal Poll) [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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I used to have competitive rivalries with peers I raced regularly and when I've had goals such as qualifying for Kona or getting a Team USA spot I've had to pay a lot of attention to my peers, but generally these days I'm not fueled by podium finishes or particular rivals. I've never had the need to "win" a training session. I do still have the need to maintain a certain level of fitness which allows me to finish races in the same general position among my peers that my ego has grown accustomed to and to continue to be able to train with my longtime tri buddies when we do a camp in the mountains or an occasional group workout. It's the desire to be able to hang with my friends of 20+ years (who are younger and more talented than me) that keeps me training at a certain level these days.

I'm starting to ramp up the training for this year's camp in early April. If I didn't have this camp coming up, I wouldn't be pushing the training load this early in the year, but the camp is one of the highlights of my year. I'm assuming that one year I'll no longer be able to stay with my younger friends on the rides. I know I'll be sad about that, but I'm guessing that there will also be a feeling of relief.
Last edited by: Mark Lemmon: Feb 6, 17 6:28
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Re: Compete Against Others or Compete Against Yourself (informal Poll) [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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I need goals or I get miserable.

I like a challenge, but it's a personal challenge. I'm middle to back of pack but want to beat my last performance. There's no point in me racing other people. Everyone I know is either WAY faster or significantly slower. This changes on race day though.... My slow swim and decent bike means I can pick people off on the bike.

But this year, I'm getting married in August, so doing a 70.3 in May and an Oly in June to ensure I'm in good shape for my wedding. Because just getting in to shape for that just wouldn't motivate me! And I have a marathon scheduled in for October as a goal on the way to maybe a 140.6 in July next year. If I can stomach the training volumes.

Plus I'm an adult onset athlete. I did basically no exercise until I was about 37/38.
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Re: Compete Against Others or Compete Against Yourself (informal Poll) [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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I only compete against myself. I usually lose.

Travis Rassat
Vector Cycle Works
Noblesville, IN
BikeFit Instructor | FMS | F.I.S.T. | IBFI
Toughman Triathlon Series Ambassador
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Re: Compete Against Others or Compete Against Yourself (informal Poll) [Travis R] [ In reply to ]
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Travis R wrote:
I only compete against myself. I usually lose.


I can build on the above. I fantasize about oly gold - then realize really how out of reach I am from my half a life ago times (in running), that's when, MASSIVE depression sets in :-|

I don't get as depressed about cycling because I don't have any trustworthy time references, well except for climbing up Kings Mt. Rd. (SF Bay Area).

At least I'm able to swim about as good as ever, maybe better thanks to stroke mechanics.

To Dev's question - I like both for most all the reasons that other posters have expressed.

I saw this on a white board in a window box at my daughters middle school...
List of what life owes you:
1. __________
2. __________
3. __________
Last edited by: manofthewoods: Feb 6, 17 7:30
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Re: Compete Against Others or Compete Against Yourself (informal Poll) [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Both. If it weren't for wanting to compete with the best I probably wouldn't work as hard though. It's pretty easy to continue to beat your previous best with just consistency.
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Re: Compete Against Others or Compete Against Yourself (informal Poll) [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Training is a lifestyle. I'm pretty sure I'll always be training for something. It's the practice.

As for competition, it's the test. I compete against both myself and others. These are not mutually exclusive and can be accomplished at the same time with both in focus. I tend to have better performances when there are others on the course with the risk (which is 100%) that they will beat me.






Take a short break from ST and read my blog:
http://tri-banter.blogspot.com/
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Re: Compete Against Others or Compete Against Yourself (informal Poll) [manofthewoods] [ In reply to ]
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manofthewoods wrote:
Travis R wrote:
I only compete against myself. I usually lose.


I can build on the above. I fantasize about oly gold - then realize really how out of reach I am from my half a life ago times (in running), that's when, MASSIVE depression sets in :-|

I don't get as depressed about cycling because I don't have any trustworthy time references, well except for climbing up Kings Mt. Rd. (SF Bay Area).

At least I'm able to swim about as good as ever, maybe better thanks to stroke mechanics.

To Dev's question - I like both for most all the reasons that other posters have expressed.

LOL....I am driven to beat myself up until I am in a long 3 mile uphill "drag race' at Tahoe with Manofthewoods where we are "sprinting" at 11-12 minutes per mile at 7000 ft above sea level. How pathetic is that? I THINK for most of us (referring to Mark Lemmon's reasoning), we're trying to push ourselves to be at the point where we can be in the hunt with our peers for meaningless age group positions and have some good laughs about it all.

My guess is that the majority are in the same mindset....push ourselves daily so that when it is game day on Sunday we can play and be in the competition. This past weekend I was at a family event where one of the friends of a family member played for the Green Bay Packers....he basically said the same thing....you train all year to make the cut and then every week on Tuesday you have to earn your place in the starting line up for Sunday and then it's Sunday and you want to hold your own as a minimum and destroy the other team when possible, but as a minimum, you're trying to be worthy of the starting position in the lineup. I think for those of us who played competitive team sports in youth, that mentality lives on in try. You're training to be competitive enough to "make the starting lineup" (however you define that for yourself). If I can make the starting lineup for the team that the likes of Manofthewoods is also on, then it makes the sport fun. I don't know if that starting lineup is A, AA, AAA or MLB caliber lineup for my age group, but I don't care. I just want to be fit and injury free enough to play with the guys on Sunday if I can.
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Re: Compete Against Others or Compete Against Yourself (informal Poll) [Sean H] [ In reply to ]
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Sean H wrote:
Both. If it weren't for wanting to compete with the best I probably wouldn't work as hard though. It's pretty easy to continue to beat your previous best with just consistency.

I'll need Mark Lemmon, Manofthewoods, and Slowman and Fleck to help me, but no amount of consistency helps the old guys compete with their former selves. The ghost of one's past performance can often be the motivation killer for the "experienced athlete". Finding/creating new challenges be it head to head racing or self generated are key when performance declines and eventually it must so training and racing lifestyle takes on a new meaning.
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Re: Compete Against Others or Compete Against Yourself (informal Poll) [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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i compete against me and myself only. i'm not a professional and i can only give so much of my time and energy to training. i got into this sport because i needed to make a healthy life change. i was diagnosed with Stage 3 colorectal cancer in 2010 and after my recovery from that, i decided that at the age of 41, it was time to lead a healthier lifestyle so i could be healthy for my family. i got my diagnosis when my little son was just 2 months old. after completing my first sprint, i targeted my first olympic the following season and never did i think that i would ever dream of, let alone complete an ironman.

i dont have tons of money to spend on things to help me train better, or race better. i dedicate the time i can because i have a family and a job that demand time and i enjoy my family time. how can i say i'm "competing against somebody" who may have dedicated more time and effort to the race? i enjoy it and i try to get better. i certainly think about the race after about how i will improve next time. what factors were at play, etc. i completed my first 70.3 only 4 weeks after my wife had major surgery and i was working 70 hours per week. how can i think about how i can improve my race when i was so limited in training? as i gain experience and knowledge, and pick the brains of others, reading these forums, i pick up some tips and things in can incorporate into my training and lifestyle.

i've already achieved my goal... my kids will never forget seeing me run across the finish line at Ironman Mont Tremblant. they now understand hard work and dedication. and so far i've been able to keep free of cancer again.. knocking wood! i'm a much healthier person physically and mentally. so yes, when i look at a race now, i think about what my goals are and if its a repeat race, how i can improve what i did before. but if i dont better my time, i'm usually over it pretty quickly.
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Re: Compete Against Others or Compete Against Yourself (informal Poll) [tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
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tigerchik wrote:
Quote:
I am curious to see what really drives most of you.


Sport quells my anxiety and prevents me from falling into depression.

Would you say that simply training (competition or not) is an extension of who you are as a person. I know it is for me, and I struggle to comprehend a life without active sport. I swear my wife and parents and extended family would be worried if I was sitting on the couch watching Tom Brady and surfing ST and NASDAQ and stock reports and the Economist 24x7 and then filling any remaining time with CNN paralaysis analysis. People in my circle literally need me to get out and exercise. Its basically not even an option for those around me and myself, which is good at the moment, perhaps troubling in older age. I hope/plan to keep swimming and lifting and riding a spin bike and walking.
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Re: Compete Against Others or Compete Against Yourself (informal Poll) [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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I compete against myself but that doesn't preclude me from using others to define my goals.

So, for example. My A race this year is a 70.3 in August. A friend of mine is also doing it, and in the past we've our performances have been pretty close. I used to have the edge, but last year he kicked my ass in my A race. So this year I have two goals. 1 - Beat my previous best at this event. 2 - Beat my friend.
However, and this is a BIG caveat, if he pulls out all the stops, and get's faster that I can realistically aim for without becoming single and/or miserable, he can have the win, and I'll sincerely congratulate him. If I train well, perform well, and still get beaten, it will only bother me a little....honest! His success doesn't lessen my performance.

Similarly, during a race I'll often pick a guy up ahead and set catching them as a goal. I'm sure lots of us do that. I'll pay attention before choosing - no point picking someone who's clearly a superior runner and just flew past me on the run leg. I'll select someone that appears to pose a challenge, but a challenge I can actually hope to meet. I find it more enjoyable than simply running against the clock, but if they suddenly start to slow down or accelerate significantly, so that I either catch them easily or lose all hope of catching them, I won't get upset about it. Just means I need to pick a new target. Other peoples abilities or performances do not reflect on mine!

Don't get me wrong, I'm not what most people would call easy going. In fact I've often been told I'm too competitive, but it's only because I push myself hard and especially so when there's someone to beat. Some people don't like to compete at all. But if I've pushed and I don't win, that's okay. It's not going to ruin my whole day. What will upset me, is if I think I let myself down. So if I didn't push myself as hard as I should have or if I wasn't as well prepared as I should have been (within the limits I choose - I'm never going to do 20hrs training a week!) then I'll be upset with myself but if it couldn't be helped (say due to illness or injury or an unforeseeable mechanical issue) I'll try and let it go.
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Re: Compete Against Others or Compete Against Yourself (informal Poll) [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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The thing I see all the time over the years with the responses to these questions is the lake of the fun to do things with the wife. At reasons my wife and I see SO many folks that are there doing their my thing. No spouse in sight!! Over 20 years and about 200 years, I think there has been 2 races I went to without my wife. One of these
I got my parents to go to. (They never went again, to boring.). The social aspects at the races, in our opinion, is just so cool!! And as I have posted, some of the most fun is when all the extended family is at a race, I am racing in a 5K with my 6 year old granddaughter, (we walk 99.9% of it), and I am dead last, right behind her. Those moments are better than ANY competition I have ever had, or memories.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
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Re: Compete Against Others or Compete Against Yourself (informal Poll) [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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If you do a sport against a clock, you are competing against yourself (and the clock).

If you're in a sport where you have to beat another person (ie. wrestling, tennis) you are competing against others.
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Re: Compete Against Others or Compete Against Yourself (informal Poll) [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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When I race I want to beat as many others as possible, and of course the ultimate goal is to win the race. But that's more of a byproduct for the most part. I'm good at accepting that I have no control over who else shows up for a race or how fast they are so I do well at staying inside my own personal box and simply trying to push my own limits. Although having others out there certainly helps with motivation, particularly in the final miles if you have people within potential striking range. So I'm mostly competing against myself. I'd rather come in 3rd and have a PR than win with a sub-optimal performance.
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Re: Compete Against Others or Compete Against Yourself (informal Poll) [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
I am curious to see what really drives most of you.

Sport quells my anxiety and prevents me from falling into depression.

Would you say that simply training (competition or not) is an extension of who you are as a person. I know it is for me, and I struggle to comprehend a life without active sport. I swear my wife and parents and extended family would be worried if I was sitting on the couch watching Tom Brady and surfing ST and NASDAQ and stock reports and the Economist 24x7 and then filling any remaining time with CNN paralaysis analysis. People in my circle literally need me to get out and exercise. Its basically not even an option for those around me and myself, which is good at the moment, perhaps troubling in older age. I hope/plan to keep swimming and lifting and riding a spin bike and walking.

Yes, it is a component of my identity.
If I didn't go to the gym in the morning, people would likely ask if I had the flu or something...

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
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Re: Compete Against Others or Compete Against Yourself (informal Poll) [Tri-Banter] [ In reply to ]
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Tri-Banter wrote:
Training is a lifestyle. I'm pretty sure I'll always be training for something. It's the practice.

As for competition, it's the test. I compete against both myself and others. These are not mutually exclusive and can be accomplished at the same time with both in focus. I tend to have better performances when there are others on the course with the risk (which is 100%) that they will beat me.

I do think that for training to become a lifestyle you need to be motivated by a few different things though. People I know who only have one motivation tend to quit or train inconsistently. E.g. a colleague only really trains for vanity reasons, he'll get motivated to get ripped for something like his wedding or an upcoming beach holiday, will lift a load of weights and have a crazy diet with a ton of protein and veg and not much else, and then after the event he'll fall completely off the wagon, have a load of pizza and beer and pile on the pounds.

Another good friend is only motivated by seeing continuous improvement and racing other people. He's pretty much incapable of doing any sport at half throttle. I've seen him get into about 5 sports in the 20 years I've known him and the trajectory is always the same - he starts getting into a new sport, normally with a friend who already does it, starts getting obsessed and doing more and more training to get faster, buying all the equipment, joining local clubs, etc. After a couple of years he typically either starts hitting his limits and/or some life change like a baby or a busy period at work comes along, his performance plateaus or start to drop, and he'll lose all motivation and completely drop the sport. If he went straight from one sport to the next that might not be so bad, but he typically has a year or 2 of doing very little training and having an unhealthy lifestyle before the next sporting obsession comes along.

The people I know who train consistently year in, year out, tend to be motivated by lots of different things. They might commit everything to training for 6 months for an A race, but when it's over they'll still find ways to motivate themselves even when there's no race on the calendar.
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Re: Compete Against Others or Compete Against Yourself (informal Poll) [cartsman] [ In reply to ]
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Fast people are just an improved model of myself.

Yes I want to defeat them/me.

"When you wake up with a clone of yourself in bed with you...........
do you want to make love to it, or kill it?" (Source escapes me).

Answer- mostly kill it!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kKv_eZwJh34
Last edited by: Velocibuddha: Feb 6, 17 9:35
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Re: Compete Against Others or Compete Against Yourself (informal Poll) [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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I like to push my limits. You never know what you are truly capable of until you try. I like to sign up for different events that if completed set personal bests or have me accomplish something significant. Maybe its climb a notable hill, or ride a longer distance than I have ever done before.

I race because I enjoy racing. Sure I can go and do a hard workout any day of the week, but solo workouts do not have the same atmosphere as a race. Even if my time isnt the best as long as I did the best I could given the conditions or my fitness level at the time I am satisfied.

I don't race purely to win. If I achieve good results thats considered a bonus. For cyclocross my only place related goal last season was to get on a podium which I did in week 1, but mid pack in a 10 person race is a podium (usually the medals go out to 5th). If I wanted to win I would stick to supersprint triathlons where there is less competition.

Signing up for events throughout the year keeps me motivated to train. Knowing there is a half ironman or double century down the road is good motivation for me.
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