As someone who has always done horrible with coaches maybe I can comment. So far it just sounds like she might just be excited about the sport and possibly doing too much too early purely out of excitement. However if this is a problem for you then perhaps you should consider dropping the hammer on her and being a little Stern. Looking back on all the sports I played growing up I was never great at taking coaches advice but oddly enough the coaches I hated the most and the ones that forced me to conform where the ones I perform the best for. The ones who I liked and meshed with well personality-wise and would let me get away with doing my own thing usually resulted in crappy performance.

When I’m on vacation, especially someplace warm in the dead of winter, I’m going to run as much as I want and probably way more than I should. It’s cathartic. I completely understand it.

Meet her half way. give her some key workouts and some free runs. If she wants to run, give her some sets that take the pop out of her legs.

This is why I never want a coach.

Why are you coaching?

Seems a good coach goes with the flow with the person. Given them inputs, and concerns, and lets them learn, even if it is, the hard way.

Seems it has to be your way or nothing. Well, some folks like that, others do not.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

boltz,

I too am an athlete my coach would say it took awhile to listen. I would say two things. First, there is a natural 'forming, storming, norming performing' progression of working relationships and it is not surprising that you or she would be seeing this initially. Second, when I got new advice, I wanted to implement it, but I wasn't always good at doing it right away even though it seems easy. For example, my coach wants me to run training runs slower so my HR stays under a certain level. I agreed, I wanted to, I saw the value, but I had a hard time implementing it because i would get going and notice my HR too late and then back off.

My advice is to do what you feel is best for her and keep nudging her in that direction supportively. There is a small chance she just will never listen, I have a client in my work like that right now, but in the vast majority of cases, I would hypothesize it is difficulty implementing what you suggest and the struggles inherent in developing a new working relationship.

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2018 Races: IM Santa Rosa, Vineman Monte Rio, Lake Tahoe 70.3

I have pain in the ass clients at work but yes we still do their stuff. While she doesnt listen, maybe you can listen to what she is saying also. She wants to do more heavy training. So why don't you skip ahead 4 or 5 weeks in your training plan with her when she gets back. Thats what I would do.

Many times people get nervous about paying for a coach. So they get all excited and think they have to become this super hero athlete to *justify* the cost of the coach. When in reality that will just cause them to get injured/burned out. I had an athlete like this once. We were 2.5 weeks into the program and questioning why she hadn't lost X weight and Y splits. I sorta chuckled, and knew how this was going to end..

So give a little and take a little. What you can do is this. If the athlete doesn't want to listen and a niggle comes up or fatigue/tiredness (likely more fatigue from over doing it), gently remind them that you prescribed xyz and the athlete did xyz + abc.

This can be a good learning experience for you, in that some athletes generally are pain in the asses. They take up a little bit more of your time, they grind on you, etc. And not that they are even meaning to be, but just that's their personality. The good coaches can still coax that athlete into doing what you want. The great coaches make it a way that the athlete thinks they are driving the ship but in reality it's always the coach. But a great coach wants said athlete to learn from this process, experiment what works/doesnt work and have a fair say in things. That's allowing the athlete to grow and not just be do x or get out.


Now what you can do going from here is this....that vacation just turned into a mini run block for you. So adapt the training going forward when she gets back and you likely have a little more control of the training. So go with it as long as she stays healthy. That's first and foremost, and your doing a good job of reminding her to take it easy and why she's taking it easy. If the athlete doesn't want to listen- you have your ammo when it backfires on her.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

This is why I never want a coach.

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Is it because you don't want the structured plan and already know what is best? Or you just don't want to deal with someone telling you what to do.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

A coaches job is to protect the athlete, and that includes writing a plan that caps out workouts. Lots of people when they hire a coach feel the need to add a few minutes here and there, increase the pace/watts to justify/show off "how good" they are to the coach.

That's fine you never want a coach, but why are you asking why this person coaches? It's good the coach is asking for advice. I think it would make more sense for you to ask the athlete why do they want a coach if they're not going to listen to what they write.

most of the "coaches" I have met know less than I do. I did not say all, just most of the local folks.

Most folks need a coach because they do not have the ability to train daily, so they use a coach to make them do it.

I know plenty of folks who have gotten hurt via coaches workouts. Most have no idea how to deal with older athletes. Again, I did not say all.

This is a hobby. Why would I pay good money for my hobby when I have yet to see folks that have a coach do so much better.

I am having Frank tell me what to do, so I do not follow my feelings 100%. :)

99% of folks if they would do frequency, consistency, duration would never need a coach, but so many cannot do this without being pushed. I understand and say whatever
it talks.

If Sutton said he would coach me, for free, well, I would have another coach. But, it would have to fit into my lifestyle, which would not work. Meaning, I do not ride my bike outside, and no coach is going to change that. I am not going to drive 30 minutes in the off season each way to swim, no coach is going to change that. Too many other things to do in my life.

Again, for many, a coach is great.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

This is a hobby. Why would I pay good money for my hobby when I have yet to see folks that have a coach do so much better.

I am having Frank tell me what to do, so I do not follow my feelings 100%. :)

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I hope for the professionalism of Frank's career you are paying him for the study/fit/whatever you want to call it that he is doing for you. You would be nuts to not think that's good money worth it after all the time and energy you've put into that.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

IMO, a good coach would not be coming onto social media to belittle an athlete.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Think what you want

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

What about it is belittling? Seems like the OP is just explaining the situation.

Great to see everyone's thoughts on this topic, and I appreciate the feedback. I suppose I tapped into something a little bigger then I initially thought

To respond to some of the general themes:

-I am relatively new to coaching (3-4 years exp) with a degree in Kinesiology and Masters in Fitness Science. During school I competed in Varsity swim and Track (and spent my own fair share of time in athletic therapy). I don't know how you'd judge if I am any good as a coach, but I always try to do what is right for the athlete (which is sometimes telling them no). Generally, I have received positive feedback.

-I think coaching should be more open, as in its nice to hear from athletes who have had a coach or from other coaches. Being at it for only a handful of years, I am very receptive to hearing from people who are much more experienced then me. We all know there are coaches who have been in the game a long time who know more then university grads...

-I like the idea of continuing to coach this athlete and nudge her in the right direction.

-coaches are a good idea. I don't think I'm any super special coach, and there are a lot of good options out there, but they are important

In the ten years I have been a member here, I have never seen one user destroy so much otherwise useful conversation.

As a former coach (for about 10 years), there's also direct confrontation. Whether you want to do that depends on your goals, the goals of the athlete, etc.

But if you've tried several times in various ways, and she's just not buying into your coaching methodology you can just call her up and say, "I see that you're not choosing not to follow my prescribed methodology. Maybe I am not the right coach for you."

This isn't in a spiteful, bitchy or passive-aggressive tone. Just a friendly getting-it-all-in-the-open tone. Maybe you're *not* the right coach for her.

I could see how this might be common in adult athletes who didn't have a coach in high school or college. Most high school and collegiate coaches have the immense benefit of having utter and completely authority over their athletes, so athletes in those systems get indoctrinated to stick "with the program."

In the age group/masters/adult paid coaching world the dynamic is different. The coaches don't have nearly the same level of authority.

+1 I don't click his shitposting topics anymore. But he shows up elsewhere.... If I didn't know better I'd assume he's a kid without a clue. But he's like 60 and really really really ought to know better. Boggles.

Anyway. To the OP. Isn't it mighty impressive that a brand new athlete can run that long, day after day? If she doesn't get injured, and looks like she won't, just let her go long and more frequent. Where's the harm as long as she isn't skipping assigned workouts? Modify her workouts going forward. Like someone said, step ahead a month or two and give her longer runs and longer bike.

Edit: and if she does get injured? Well maybe that has to happen for her to learn....

No trucker hat jokes yet? c'mon guys...

I'm really enjoying the block feature... even threads he starts make so much more sense.

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Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

It's important for athletes to respect the program, and it's important for coaches to respect their "adult privilege", particularly with amateur hobbyist athletes on vacation.

I would wait until this person was back from vacation and tell them, "I am glad you enjoyed your vacation and were able to do more running than I prescribed. I don't have an issue with this on special occasions such as this. You should understand that if you go off the reservation like that continually, you will likely hurt yourself, and definitely will not reap the full benefits my guidance could provide. Does this make sense?"

I’m reminded of a quote from Chris Ball I read in this article
https://kirklandcoaching.wordpress.com/...or-the-season-ahead/


Maybe this applies to your athlete or maybe it doesn’t. I’ve found that for someone to be successful at endurance sports, they must enjoy the sport. The coach’s job is to guide that passion, fit a system around the athlete that will maximize their growth, motivate the athlete and temper exuberance when it can do harm.

Maybe this woman needs to listen to you and fall in line. Or maybe you’ve found someone who loves to run and you need throw the system out the window and figure out how to make that passion an asset.

How much are you being paid for your coaching? Did not see the number. The amount you're paid will be in line with how much they listen and the satisfaction you/they get EVEN WHEN THEY DON'T LISTEN.

I've charged high school runners as little as $10 an hour for their season and adult swimmers $100 an hour. Weekend clinics with a small group, $2000-$3000.

The more they pay, the better they listen, the greater their appreciation. Often heard people say that one thing made it ($500 weekend) worthwhile.

Had several clients do nothing in between lessons and happily kept coming back until I was close or over $1000 with them. They were thrilled with me and paid for coaching for other family members. Go figure.

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Indoor Triathlete - I thought I was right, until I realized I was wrong.

Thanks for sharing your experience trail. I agree thats a possible route too, some people just respond better to different coaches. I wouldn't want to have it turn into I take this athletes money and just have her do her own thing.

FindinFreestyle yes, makes sense! I'm all for encouraging and trying to empower the athlete. I essentially would like her to "buy in" to my consistency approach, but at the same time have to understand she is also an adult.