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Closing the gap: Open vs. off the bike
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Looking for some guru insight on some of the sets you think have helped you really run strong off the bike. Other than nutrition and not over biking, do you have any brick sessions you like to hone this?

Background. For sprint distances, I can push through the 5k within 15 seconds of my open pace. I'm not super fast, running around 6:15-6:20m/m open vs. 6:30-6:35 off the bike. Olympic pacing, not so much; 70.3, I'm pretty far off my open times. I pretty much stick to sprint/oly distances, so that's where I'm focusing.

Not looking for miracles, just sets or drills to implement in training.

just your average age grouper . no one special . no scientific knowledge . just having fun.
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Re: Closing the gap: Open vs. off the bike [way2sloow] [ In reply to ]
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what does your run training look like? volume, "workouts", etc...
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Re: Closing the gap: Open vs. off the bike [Sean H] [ In reply to ]
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Usually one track session and one long run per week. The remainder, usually 2-3 runs, are more aerobic efforts with sprints or hills. Typically 3-4 hours, mileage is mostly around 30mpw.

just your average age grouper . no one special . no scientific knowledge . just having fun.
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Re: Closing the gap: Open vs. off the bike [way2sloow] [ In reply to ]
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I improved my off the bike run by getting MUCH stronger on the bike - large increase in bike volume.
Running fitness has not changed too much; I'm just fresher when I hop off the bike.

Alex Arman

Strava
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Re: Closing the gap: Open vs. off the bike [way2sloow] [ In reply to ]
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I'll just point you to this thread. It works.

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/forum/Slowtwitch_Forums_C1/Triathlon_Forum_F1/So_you_want_a_challenge%3F_-_Half_assed_or_Full_on_Ass%3F_You_choose._Alternate_title%3A_Do_it_right_or_wasting_your_time._P1051716/



desert dude wrote:
If you really want a challenge, I have one for you. One that will make you a better triathlete runner. One that will increase your runnning fitness and cause you to strike fear into the hearts of your fellow competitors. Starting NOW, I challenge you to really make a difference in your ability to race a triathlon.

My challenge is for you to run 200 miles per month, every month for the next four months. You must run at least 200 per month and you must get your long run up to 2hrs by the end of month 2 and 2:30 by the end of month 4. You must run at least one other run every week at least 60min in length and your average duration can not be below 25min run. You must swim and ride a total of 4X per week and the length of these is not really important. (in other words don't be a dummy and go ride 2x100mile per week or swim 2x9000 (tigerchik this is really for you ;-)) shelling yourself for your running.) The goal is to raise your running to a new fitness level.

If you want a challenge that will make you faster and fitter and carry over into your triathlon season making you a better racer this is it. If you want to challenge yourself in a half ass way that will not then this is not for you.


For those of you who will take the half assed challenges, may this thread run through your head as you read and watch the calfs of your fellow AG competitors run away from you. For those of you who will take the Full Ass Challenge, you better learn to count b/c you are going to run out of fingers counting the people you run past.


Last edited by: Sean H: Mar 30, 17 11:30
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Re: Closing the gap: Open vs. off the bike [Sean H] [ In reply to ]
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Is that really appropriate for us short course guys? A long run of 2:30 for a 40min 10k is... a lot. The longest I have gone is 2 hours, but maybe I'm not putting enough volume in? I run at least 40mpw (6 runs a week) throughout the year, but wouldn't adding speedwork be more advantageous?

@floathammerholdon | @partners_in_tri
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Re: Closing the gap: Open vs. off the bike [cloy26] [ In reply to ]
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I don't think it's one or the other. First get to 50mpw. Then if you're handling it well add some tempo, then later add some speed if you can.


Last year I was a barely break 20min 5k type of guy on average 30mpw (closer to 40 in the spring and closer to 20 in the summer). I just ran 18:05 a few weeks ago after running ~50mpw since mid December. I'm now running 5 mile bricks at 6:25/mi after 2 hrs at 85% on the bike. It's crazy.

Now you're at 40mpw where the op is at 30mpw, so I'd guess he'd see more of a benefit than you would from getting to 50mpw.
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Re: Closing the gap: Open vs. off the bike [cloy26] [ In reply to ]
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It's the concept behind that thread not the absolute numbers. For short course guys the number may actually be 60mpw.

There are 2 ways to run faster off the bike.

1. drive up your overall run fitness. The person with a 36 min open 10k will never have to worry about the person who can only run 39 in a triathlon unless they screw the pooch. The 36 guy may run 38, the 39 guy isn't going to run 1 minute faster than his current fitness level.

2. ride a lot more. You won't go from a 39 10k open to a 39 10k off the bike. Going to high bike volume route insures you won't slow down as much over the back end of the triathlon. You'll still slow and you still won't run faster than the dude who is in 36min open 10k shape but you'll be faster than you would have been if that's the route you choose to take

Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

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Re: Closing the gap: Open vs. off the bike [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
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desert dude wrote:
It's the concept behind that thread not the absolute numbers. For short course guys the number may actually be 60mpw.

There are 2 ways to run faster off the bike.

1. drive up your overall run fitness. The person with a 36 min open 10k will never have to worry about the person who can only run 39 in a triathlon unless they screw the pooch. The 36 guy may run 38, the 39 guy isn't going to run 1 minute faster than his current fitness level.

2. ride a lot more. You won't go from a 39 10k open to a 39 10k off the bike. Going to high bike volume route insures you won't slow down as much over the back end of the triathlon. You'll still slow and you still won't run faster than the dude who is in 36min open 10k shape but you'll be faster than you would have been if that's the route you choose to take

I did a larger run block during the winter and saw improvements on the run. I know I'll benefit from overall run fitness, and speed since I'm still pretty slow for my AG.

Where I am fitness wise, I'll benefit from improvements all around. But, I also want to simultaneously try to get to a point where I'm running at my open-potential off the bike.

just your average age grouper . no one special . no scientific knowledge . just having fun.
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Re: Closing the gap: Open vs. off the bike [cloy26] [ In reply to ]
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I can tell you that I've never even come close to running this kind of distance and my 5k PR is 16:38. I barely crack 25km per week and I also do 0 running from Oct-April.

I think the key is consistency(for me). 20-30 minutes 5x a week is all I've ever needed to hit my numbers. That includes 1 Speed sessions when key races are 6-8 weeks out and 1 hill sessions every week of training (I use a treadmill incline pyramid)

My brick sessions are usually every weekend with 6-8 weeks to my A race. They are typically a seriously HARD first 2KM (10-15s above 5k Pace) then coming down to reality for the second half and holding it as long as I possibly can @ 5K pace.

------
"Train so you have no regrets @ the finish line"
Last edited by: PushThePace: Mar 30, 17 13:54
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