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Chip seal rant... (sh!tseal!)
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If this crap hasn't become the standard paving material where you live, then count yourself lucky!




They recently repaved every road north of town with this stuff for many miles... every decent route. That includes the TT course and my field testing course! All were much nicer to cycle on before, even though the pavement was worn in spots. I did a long ride yesterday that was nearly all chipseal and wanted to cry. Hands and feet and back would go numb. My 23mm GP4000s were pumped to 80psi, but that isn't nearly low enough to make a significant difference. Maybe I'll have to go to an MTB with slicks pumped to 20psi.

I thought about complaining... but then considered how puny the lobbying body of cyclists is around here, and how most motorists would be willing to pay *extra* to discourage cycling... and well, it would probably have the opposite effect.

It is a cost thing... chipseal uses less oil which is why it has become more economical and more widely used compared to asphalt... and I guess the highway departments have gotten some money they need to spend, which is why they did them all at once. So it looks like the only tactic I could possibly take is *if* the increased tire wear and reduced fuel mileage negates the cost savings. So then it would be basically be taxing people a different way and not really saving money. But I don't know if that is true.

It is possible to use the same process but make the road much smoother, by putting another layer on top with smaller aggregate. They did that to a few miles of one road, but that was it... they are now done.




Anybody have any helpful suggestions on how to persuade the road dept, or how to live with it?
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Re: Chip seal rant... (sh!tseal!) [rruff] [ In reply to ]
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wider tires?
gatorskin or similar?
less air pressure?

the worst of it usually wears pretty quickly from the cars and trucks. chipseal would better and safer for bikes than some of the potholed roads we have around here.

run well, run happy
george
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Re: Chip seal rant... (sh!tseal!) [rruff] [ In reply to ]
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Almost every road here in South East Pa and NJ is chip and seal. I've seen them pave a road smooth and chip it a month later. I really think it's some kind of scam where construction companies are paid to pave a road the right way, then they cheap out and chip it to pocket the difference .
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Re: Chip seal rant... (sh!tseal!) [ridenfish39] [ In reply to ]
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This is Michigan roads, granted Michigan is financially broke so doesn't surprise me.

I just switched to Specialized Armadillo tire. That way I can ride chipseal and dirt roads without hurting my tires.

_________________________________
The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design.
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Re: Chip seal rant... (sh!tseal!) [ridenfish39] [ In reply to ]
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ridenfish39 wrote:
Almost every road here in South East Pa and NJ is chip and seal. I've seen them pave a road smooth and chip it a month later. I really think it's some kind of scam where construction companies are paid to pave a road the right way, then they cheap out and chip it to pocket the difference .

They just did that out here. Beautiful paving job last year, this year crappy chip seal right over the top. It's a small town, so I may ask the city manager what the deal is. I have the feeling they are listening to the contracting company and not common sense.

The worst part is that they didn't fix the bad parts of other roads. Just chip-seal over the holes and cracks. Now they blend in more and are harder to dodge. Stupid, stupid, stupid.

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Re: Chip seal rant... (sh!tseal!) [rruff] [ In reply to ]
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rruff wrote:
If this crap hasn't become the standard paving material where you live, then count yourself lucky!

It is pretty standard where I ride and is tough to go very far without hitting it.

My experience is that it is brutal at first but wears down and seems to smooth out from vehicle traffic pretty quickly.

I just look at the first few weeks on new chip seal as resistance training.

Good luck!
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Re: Chip seal rant... (sh!tseal!) [ridenfish39] [ In reply to ]
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I've seen them pave a road smooth and chip it a month later.

They did that a couple years ago to the main 4 lane road south of town. Beautiful new smooth pavement... then they slathered on the gnarliest chip seal I've seen.

Except for a short section of Airport Rd, that is the only road around here that has a shoulder, and they didn't chipseal that part. I used to avoid riding on that road because the shoulder is always covered with gravel, dirt, glass, staples, nails, screws, etc... but now it is the only place I can ride and experience smooth pavement. How things change! The chipseal mania has all happened in the 8 years since I moved here.
Last edited by: rruff: Jul 23, 14 8:49
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Re: Chip seal rant... (sh!tseal!) [bmartyn] [ In reply to ]
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My experience is that it is brutal at first but wears down and seems to smooth out from vehicle traffic pretty quickly.

They do improve somewhat with age, but every chipseal job is different. Some are much rougher than others. About half my ride yesterday was on a 3 year old chipseal, and though it is better than when it was new, it is still terrible. Basically you trade a partial smoothing down of the gravel for bigger imperfections due to wear.

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Re: Chip seal rant... (sh!tseal!) [rruff] [ In reply to ]
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Maybe it increases the advantage for those with low rolling resistance setups? (Maybe not, just trying to think positive.)

Almost certainly favors a wider-lower-pressure setup.
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Re: Chip seal rant... (sh!tseal!) [rruff] [ In reply to ]
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:(
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Re: Chip seal rant... (sh!tseal!) [rruff] [ In reply to ]
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I think any campaign against a crappy chipseal job needs to be via educating how much damage chip sealing does to a person's vehicle. The direct damage is from loose stones themselves pitting paint and providing an avenue for corrosion to start. On chip seal jobs where the contractor cuts corners (quality) by using a larger aggregate, the damage often includes broken windshields in the days and weeks following the job. I have yet to see a contracting company clean the roads of loose aggregate after the sealing is complete as the loose material migrates to the shoulders and center, and the larger bits get kicked up and/or tumble into opposite direction traffic. The loose stones are certainly an injury hazard to motorcyclists. The less obvious costs directly beared by the driver is massively increased tire wear and higher rolling resistance that increases fuel consumption.

Dave
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Re: Chip seal rant... (sh!tseal!) [GreenPlease] [ In reply to ]
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They did the same thing to big sections of the Columbia Triathlon course last year. It ruined some really nice roads.
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Re: Chip seal rant... (sh!tseal!) [rruff] [ In reply to ]
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It's everywhere in WI as well. The worst part is the intersections and shoulders have "loose gravel" for months or worse after application.

It seems if they do it early on in the life of the pavement it's better. If they wait until potholes / etc all it does is cover those up so you can't see them and makes the road even rougher. There are a few roads around here that are chip sealed plus have the "shattered pavement" look. It's hard to hold onto the handle bars on those roads.

The chipseal makes riding the TT bike an absolutely miserable experience and I can't find good pavement on which to ride it! Then when you wedge a rock between the tire and beautiful Project 1 paint it only salts the wound.

24 Hour World TT Champs-American record holder
Fat Bike Worlds - Race Director
Insta: chris.s.apex
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Re: Chip seal rant... (sh!tseal!) [rruff] [ In reply to ]
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Asphalt is expensive, but needs to be done less often, chipseal is dirt cheap shit, but needs to be done every few years at a minimum so it's easier to budget for a small expense every few years even if it costs more in the long term.

You'll never convince cities and voters to pay more, even if it does cost less and create less wear and tear to their cars.

______________________________________________
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Re: Chip seal rant... (sh!tseal!) [rruff] [ In reply to ]
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Maybe some kiwis will chime in.. that country is all chip seal!

If the libertarians get their way, you can pave the road in front of your house with whatever you want....
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Re: Chip seal rant... (sh!tseal!) [rruff] [ In reply to ]
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Crazy that you posted this today... just last night I was riding one of my favorite routes and discovered multiple roads had been chip sealed. I thought "Ugh, we're STILL suffering from the effects of last winter, I wonder if others in the Midwest are seeing the same thing".

Then, bam, you go and post this.

Yep, it's all over the place in Ohio - pretty much can't avoid it without moving to more heavily traveled roads. I do my best to temporarily avoid the worst roads then they end up back to "ok" after a month or two of traffic.

No good suggestions other than that.
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Re: Chip seal rant... (sh!tseal!) [rruff] [ In reply to ]
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I'm in Northern Virginia, we're starting to get a lot of latex-modified emulsion surfaces. I don't know how it differs from traditional chip-seal, but I dislike it equally.
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Re: Chip seal rant... (sh!tseal!) [rruff] [ In reply to ]
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They've been doing it to most of the roads in Boulder County over the last several years...roads that were in beautiful condition.

_________________________________
Steve Johnson
DARK HORSE TRIATHLON |
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Re: Chip seal rant... (sh!tseal!) [rruff] [ In reply to ]
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around here (NE Ohio) some road depts are better than others at how they do it. One in particular -- not sure if county or township -- seems to use the biggest freakin stones that they can find. I think they take secret delight in seeing how painful they can make it. Other road depts seem able to make a reasonably smooth road with chipseal (like in the picture).

And yeah, I've seen them chipseal over fresh asphalt.
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Re: Chip seal rant... (sh!tseal!) [rruff] [ In reply to ]
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Around here when they do that, it'll wear in over time but if they do the shoulders, it never wears in as the cars and trucks don't drive there (well unless there is a cyclist). But, our biggest issue is still gravel. They gravel (sand?) the toads in winter so come spring, the shoulders are completely coated. All the gravel has been pushed to the shoulders by the vehicles so the main road is clear. Over the summer, the shoulders slowly get better and then it is winter again. In some cases they will sweep the gravel off but not always.

Having said that, we do have some rural roads that are great.

And, with the Calgary HIM coming up, they make sure that the course is swept so it'll be in really great condition.

BC Don
Pain is temporary, not giving it your all lasts all Winter.
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Re: Chip seal rant... (sh!tseal!) [rruff] [ In reply to ]
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It's very common where I live, especially in the rural areas where most cyclists ride. I hate it with a passion. It just takes the joy out of riding plus I worry about flats more, especially soon after they lay it down because of the loose debris.

It also seems to start pitting and cracking pretty quick, so I wouldn't think it's more cost effective in the long run but that's just a guess. Glad to know it's not just my part of the country and there are others out there suffering, too :)

------------------------
Loud pawls save lives
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Re: Chip seal rant... (sh!tseal!) [rruff] [ In reply to ]
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23 mm or wider wheels. Good quality 25 mm rubber (evo CX III are the best), latex tubes, 80/85 psi. It is easier to hit high power numbers on the CS AND roll up tri dorks on the CX bike. The roads improve drastically with time. And when you get to good pavement, it feels like a vacation. I like going on group rides right after they chip seal. Fat asses used to sitting on the whole time and attacking over the last 5K finally have to work early on and get shelled out the back.
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Re: Chip seal rant... (sh!tseal!) [rruff] [ In reply to ]
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I live in NJ, north west of Trenton and they are slowly but surely chip sealing all my favorite routes. I live on a hill - 1 mile climb to get home. Two weeks ago, came home, good & tired from a 3 hour ride, go to turn up my road and there they are, plastering that crap all over the place! Not a fun way to end the day - slipping and sliding through tar & gravel on an up hill!

I have put 23-25mm specialized Roubaix tires on my training wheels and don't pump any higher than 90psi. They do a pretty good job of absorbing the chatter from chip seal and are pretty bomb proof.
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Re: Chip seal rant... (sh!tseal!) [rpeterson] [ In reply to ]
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This is from Cummins' paper on fuel economy... page 26: https://cumminsengines.com/...ter_fuel_economy.pdf

Road Surface Resistance % (compared to concrete):

Asphalt with finish coat 1%
-medium coarse finish 4%
-coarse aggregate 8%
Chip and Seal Blacktop 33%

So here we have chipseal creating 25% higher rolling resistance for a truck. I expect it to be similar for a car. When traveling at 60mph, rolling resistance is typically ~40% of what a car overcomes on a flat road. So ~10% increase in power requirement or 10% reduction in mpg.
Last edited by: rruff: Jul 23, 14 10:36
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Re: Chip seal rant... (sh!tseal!) [rruff] [ In reply to ]
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I'm with ya, I hate the fucking stuff.

thanks for those numbers, too, glad there is research showing it's crap as an efficient surface.

The other bad things about chip seal:
-there ends up being a wash of it in all the street drains, can't be good for the sewer system
-a lot of it ends up on the sidewalks, and they don't send the street sweepers in to clean that up. That can be dangerous to folks riding or running on the sidewalk since it's like a bunch of marbles
-it takes the city of Austin about a frakkin year to repaint the road, so where once there was a bike lane, for about a year there are only some mashed-down reflector flags attempting to mark it off. Not a good solution.

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