I hope the truth comes out, whatever it is =)

Got it. You hate everyone in cycling.

As did every other rider of that era who didn't get caught. And it wasn't just one or two riders per team as you've pointed out earlier. Non-dopers were the exception.

So the reason you hate him is really because he was a superior athlete. Sorry, but without blood doping (i.e. not available for anyone) the results would very likely have been the same. Lance would still have had his plane and wealth.

As a vegetarian, I'm offended. As a human being, I find that hilarious :)

So do I hate Lance or Indurain, or Hinault or Fignon, or Lemond? No, I just accept all these guys for being a product of their time and their "industry" with the norms and realities of their time. It is really easy for us to sit back here with the values of rich North American cycling enthusiasts and judge all these guys for their actions. The reality of their industry was different than ours.

There are larger questions on how to "clean it up".....but if you keep having 4000K long 3 week tours with stages with 5000+m of climbing, than that is probably the root of the problem. Make the events easier and guys can dream about racing clean while complimented with good testing. In triathlon it is possible because our racing is really easy. In XC skiing it is possible to, and now with good doping controls we're seeing that (also XC skiing does not have the same money as tris and is national team based, not trade team based....big diff).

Dev

This may have been the best thing to happen to him. If the case falls apart and he gets let go, for years there will always be a 'what if' element to his triathlon career.

I dont think he would have won Kona, there is a laundry list of triathetes that win a race or 2 and look unbeatable for Kona and just dont show up when the big boys compete.

As I said in another thread, for every domestique who can't keep up, there are 15 more toiling on the farm in the Ukraine or Italy to take their spot in the big leagues. It is no surprise that these guys are doping.

The problem for me with this reasoning is that there are also just as many guys putting there lives into this who are not willing to dope and therefor are forever stuck in the c-leagues. We should not forget that, still, most cyclist don't come from the streets. I think justifying or understanding the act of doping because it makes a group of people a bit better off financially is a slippery slope. Imagine if we applied the same view to society at large? Again, remember that most guys making it in cycling are still coming from working to middle class so it's not like going into cycling and doping is their only way out in life.

There are larger questions on how to "clean it up".....but if you keep having 4000K long 3 week tours with stages with 5000+m of climbing, than that is probably the root of the problem. Make the events easier and guys can dream about racing clean while complimented with good testing. In triathlon it is possible because our racing is really easy. In XC skiing it is possible to, and now with good doping controls we're seeing that (also XC skiing does not have the same money as tris and is national team based, not trade team based....big diff).

The toughness of the sport is maybe a small part of the problem but definitely not the root of it. People take short cuts to be the fastest and win and that will always be the main problem no matter what the courses look like. Doping has been rampant in XC skiing and other sports as well but has been more visible in cycling, partly because there has been more transparency and more testing.

Dev-

Lance does not deserve to be banned from tri's simply because of his association with cycling in the past (same with Jalabert). However, if he is found to be guilty of these charges, then he deserves the appropriate ban for a first-time offender.

As for his Tour wins, they (and all race results from that time) should be certified, but with the notation that they occurred during the "Epo era". If he is found to be guilty, flag them with an asterisk.

If folks are serious, why not test 100% of ALL the folks at the next Kona? Many might be shocked how many get caught, especially in the older male AG.

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That would be awesome. For more entertainment value, they should announce that they're going to do it 2 days before the race. Then send someone down to the Kona airport with a video camera.

20 watts from a tire. We need a book from ST how to be fast by having a superbike, latex tubes awesome tires an aero lid firecrests and doing no training.

Well obviously his judgement is a little clouded by the whole 100% plant thing.

Interesting article regarding LA`s tour years http://nyvelocity.com/...009/michael-ashenden

Absolutely, I'm well aware how things work both in society and sport a lot of the time. I just don't agree with the "everyone is doping so that makes it ok" way of reasoning that I hear all the time. Everyone has a choice and even during the worst of times in cycling there were still people not prepared to go that route. Their careers were most likely severely compromised by those who did though, which is why I really dislike when people say it was a level playing field anyway because everyone was doping.