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Re: Challenge Gran Can - Brownlee [Jorgan] [ In reply to ]
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Jorgan wrote:
MI_Mumps wrote:
There's no way he rides/ runs away...is there? I wonder how long he'll stay away from Sanders/ Kienle.


Maybe he just hangs out the front like a carrot, for long enough that they burn a lot of matches bridging up to him. Then all to play for on the run, on fresher legs.

Safe to say that Sanders/ Kienle won't be with AB coming out of T1 so he'll have a lead (with others) on the bike. If anyone does catch him or stay with him on the bike he'll be the freshest on the run.

Can't see anyone making a serious challenge to him here.

He's in a different class for 70.3 against the current crop of pro's. Full distance could be a different story.
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Re: Challenge Gran Can - Brownlee [chilled] [ In reply to ]
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chilled wrote:
Well whatever happens I am very excited to see the outcome. Is there any decent coverage of St George?

I only rode past AB's house the other day. Didn't see a big Scott truck delivering any bikes....

If IM Texas is any guide. OK txt updated and finish and transition video feeds.

I'm guessing AB is still in a pretty modest place like below. Does Jonathan live in the same street?


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Re: Challenge Gran Can - Brownlee [newManUK] [ In reply to ]
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Yup, similar. And I believe Johnny is very close by. I do very occasionally see one or other out training, which is always cool. I overtook JB once. He was on an MTB. And stopped.
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Re: Challenge Gran Can - Brownlee [sciguy] [ In reply to ]
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sciguy wrote:
MI_Mumps wrote:
There's no way he rides/ runs away...is there? I wonder how long he'll stay away from Sanders/ Kienle.


It's really tough to get much of a "read" on the Gran Canaria result. A 25:20 wet suited, flat, salt water swim certainly had to be an easy effort for the likes of Alistair. We have no real idea how tough the bike course was beyond the map makes it look hilly. Emma Pallant ran a 1:15:34 and even though I know she's a good runner that makes me have to think the run course was a few minutes short. For reference at the 2016 70.3 WC the fasted female run was Melissa Hauschildt who did a 1:18:43. At the same race LS ran a 1:10:34. so over 8 minutes faster than the top woman. Ali was just over 4 minutes faster than Pallant but perhaps he wasn't even breaking a sweat. Much stronger proof of the pudding will come in a couple of weeks. I think we need a prediction pool on this one.

Hugh

I got curious on this and just had to do some strava-stalking :) All the runs I could find (which were quite a few) had the run at 19.9 - 20.1 km, which supports your ascertation that the course was a few (I'd say 3-4) min short. So I agree this run split is probably not very telling as to how fast AB can run.
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Re: Challenge Gran Can - Brownlee [chilled] [ In reply to ]
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chilled wrote:
Yup, similar. And I believe Johnny is very close by. I do very occasionally see one or other out training, which is always cool. I overtook JB once. He was on an MTB. And stopped.


Cool. Sounds like my only claim to fame that I once beat the Aussie 1500m champ (3:37pb) in a XC race. Only because he stop to tie his shoes laces.
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Re: Challenge Gran Can - Brownlee [lovegoat] [ In reply to ]
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hold up a second there: are you saying that Keinle and Sanders have higher w/kg than Brownlee? Yes, Sanders and Keinle have higher FTP's, but the difference in weight outstrips what is probably an FTP difference of less than 30 watts. So, that's like putting Froome or Contador vs Cancellara or Sagan on a climb. AB all the way on that one. It's losing time on the downhill AB will have to worry about.

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Re: Challenge Gran Can - Brownlee [lovegoat] [ In reply to ]
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 Challenge has detailed per km splits up. AB held consistent 3:24 - 3:33 km splits

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Re: Challenge Gran Can - Brownlee [milesthedog] [ In reply to ]
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Why would he lose on the downhill?

Terrible Tuesday’s Triathlon
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Re: Challenge Gran Can - Brownlee [oscaro] [ In reply to ]
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oscaro wrote:
Why would he lose on the downhill?

Because he's lighter.
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Re: Challenge Gran Can - Brownlee [splashrunner] [ In reply to ]
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splashrunner wrote:
oscaro wrote:
Why would he lose on the downhill?

Because he's lighter.
So? Do you mean that Newton's first law doesn't apply for Kienle/AB

Terrible Tuesday’s Triathlon
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Re: Challenge Gran Can - Brownlee [milesthedog] [ In reply to ]
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milesthedog wrote:
Challenge has detailed per km splits up. AB held consistent 3:24 - 3:33 km splits

If the course was actually 20k which people's Strava data seem to imply then you have to take those with a grain of salt. It's not like there haven't been triathlon swims, bikes or runs that weren't measured quite perfectly.

Hugh

Genetics load the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger.
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Re: Challenge Gran Can - Brownlee [sciguy] [ In reply to ]
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 Those splits were being posted live, so it is my impression that the splits were not merely his total time divided by in an inaccurate distance

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Re: Challenge Gran Can - Brownlee [milesthedog] [ In reply to ]
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milesthedog wrote:
Those splits were being posted live, so it is my impression that the splits were not merely his total time divided by in an inaccurate distance

What evidence do we have that the individual km markers were correctly placed? Over the years I've done more races where they were off rather than on. When a number of athletes GPS data all seem to show a short course I'd actually trust their data more. If anything GPS data tends to show longer than actual courses. Frodo ran a 1:09:12 at St. George back in 2014. Are you expecting way quicker than that from Ali?

Hugh

Genetics load the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger.
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Re: Challenge Gran Can - Brownlee [sciguy] [ In reply to ]
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sciguy wrote:
milesthedog wrote:
Those splits were being posted live, so it is my impression that the splits were not merely his total time divided by in an inaccurate distance


What evidence do we have that the individual km markers were correctly placed? Over the years I've done more races where they were off rather than on. When a number of athletes GPS data all seem to show a short course I'd actually trust their data more. If anything GPS data tends to show longer than actual courses. Frodo ran a 1:09:12 at St. George back in 2014. Are you expecting way quicker than that from Ali?

Hugh

That run in St. George 2014 was at least a half mile short ( I have raced it every year). Add another 3:00 or so to his run that year. They have since modified the course a little from that year so no comparing. Best would be to compare what he does this year to what LS and Kienle did last year.
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Re: Challenge Gran Can - Brownlee [sciguy] [ In reply to ]
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I'd say the probability that they could so many timing mats wrong speaks to the mats being laid out semi-accurately. But, when you look at the splits, he was hitting 17:20-:30/5k pretty consistently, which is 3:33-:36/km pace, which is 1:13:20 half marathon pace, so 2min slower than the short course showed - but it goes to my point that while the course was short, it appears the timing mats along the course were pretty spot on. So, he cruised to a super even paced and controlled 1:13 paced half marathon. Yeah, I think he has 1:08 low in the tank. And seeing how so many of the 70.3 runs are short, lets just call it 1:06!



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Re: Challenge Gran Can - Brownlee [milesthedog] [ In reply to ]
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milesthedog wrote:
I'd say the probability that they could so many timing mats wrong speaks to the mats being laid out semi-accurately.

You did notice that he they were running loops? So each loop ought to be exactly the same distance or the world has tilted;) His splits just show that he ran quite evenly. We're talking about a single timing mat plus start and finish mat. If the loop distance is off a bit that messes up all of them in a consistent fashion. If he lays down a 1:06 at St. George that was be enough proof for even the most skeptical:)

Hugh

Genetics load the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger.
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Re: Challenge Gran Can - Brownlee [sciguy] [ In reply to ]
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ahhh, didn't know it was a loop. But, the splits do add up to a 1:13 half, which sounds about right. And, I said 1:06 if the course is 2min short. I think 1:08 on an accurate course with pressure on AB from competitors.

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Re: Challenge Gran Can - Brownlee [milesthedog] [ In reply to ]
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milesthedog wrote:
ahhh, didn't know it was a loop. But, the splits do add up to a 1:13 half, which sounds about right. And, I said 1:06 if the course is 2min short. I think 1:08 on an accurate course with pressure on AB from competitors.




Yes not a surprise in the consistency:)

Genetics load the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger.
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Re: Challenge Gran Can - Brownlee [newManUK] [ In reply to ]
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newManUK wrote:

Has anybody running quicker than 1:08:50? Rather a tough order at your first try but this is the only double Olympic Champ!

I believe Potts holds the record with a 1:07 on a run at some point. Gomez ran 1:08 and some change at 2014 70.3 World Championships.

Team Zoot 2023
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Re: Challenge Gran Can - Brownlee [milesthedog] [ In reply to ]
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milesthedog wrote:
hold up a second there: are you saying that Keinle and Sanders have higher w/kg than Brownlee? Yes, Sanders and Keinle have higher FTP's, but the difference in weight outstrips what is probably an FTP difference of less than 30 watts. So, that's like putting Froome or Contador vs Cancellara or Sagan on a climb. AB all the way on that one. It's losing time on the downhill AB will have to worry about.

An ITU guy isn't going to lose time to sanders on a downhill. Especially AB.

Does no one else here remember kitzbuhl when they had the big uphill? He destroyed everyone. Think he would beat kienle and sanders on a big uphill.
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Re: Challenge Gran Can - Brownlee [fulla] [ In reply to ]
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if it's a technical downhill, you have a point. But, kilo for kilo, AB just won't be able to travel as fast on a downhill as someone who weighs 8-11kg more

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Re: Challenge Gran Can - Brownlee [aerobean] [ In reply to ]
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It is that Gomez number that is most meaningful to me. He is one of the few in Ali's class for the ITU 10k. That bike at Mt. Tremblant had some good elevation, right?

I don't necessarily expect Brownlee to come in and dominate any one leg. I d think he will be very competitive, and just remember that bike at Kitzbuhl when considering his potential in that leg!

Aaron Bales
Lansing Triathlon Team
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Re: Challenge Gran Can - Brownlee [fulla] [ In reply to ]
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fulla wrote:
milesthedog wrote:
hold up a second there: are you saying that Keinle and Sanders have higher w/kg than Brownlee? Yes, Sanders and Keinle have higher FTP's, but the difference in weight outstrips what is probably an FTP difference of less than 30 watts. So, that's like putting Froome or Contador vs Cancellara or Sagan on a climb. AB all the way on that one. It's losing time on the downhill AB will have to worry about.


An ITU guy isn't going to lose time to sanders on a downhill. Especially AB.

Does no one else here remember kitzbuhl when they had the big uphill? He destroyed everyone. Think he would beat kienle and sanders on a big uphill.


How about to Kienle?



Genetics load the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger.
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Re: Challenge Gran Can - Brownlee [MI_Mumps] [ In reply to ]
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and that run at Tremblant had some pretty steep uphills. I remember watching that race live and being amazed at how Gomez did not slow down on the super steep hills.

looking back at the marathon prior to Renato Canova's influence and then after, I see AB and Gomez bringing to the long distance stuff what guys like Sammy (and Daniel at this most recent Boston) Wanjiru, Keitany at London, Bekele's post 30k surge at London, Kipchoge, Mutai, Kipsang, Makau, Biwott.... endless surges, racing marathons like people use to race half marathons. Heck, see Keitany's 1:06 first half at London! That's the fierceness I predict we'll see AB and Gomez, and hopefully Murray and others, bringing to long distance racing... to challenge the currently untouchable Frodo.

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Re: Challenge Gran Can - Brownlee [MI_Mumps] [ In reply to ]
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MI_Mumps wrote:
ErickBar wrote:
ANYONE GOT A BIKE COURSE ELEVATION MAP FOR THIS COURSE???

4:03 isn't crazy crazy fast is it?


I don't know personally, but the article said he broke the course record by 10 minutes, fwiw.


While doing some Strava trawling this afternoon I found data for the winner from last year. Tom Steger averaged 244 watts for his 2:20:35 ride. In contrast Lionel Sanders averaged 352 watts for his 2:03:57 St. George ride last year. I'd love to see Alistair's power data if any exists.



Genetics load the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger.
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