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Re: Cervelo - actual facts [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
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The fact that you, a part owner of a company like cervelo, takes the time of day to talk to guys like us is why I love small companies far more than large megacompanies.
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Re: Cervelo - actual facts [gerard] [ In reply to ]
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Good things come to those who wait. Now how about a picture of something like the P5 fork drop out. Just a little something. PLEASE!!!

customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.
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Re: Cervelo - actual facts [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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I see this as a ok-good deal for the larger dealers out there. But for the small shops this is a bad deal. They expected to make that X amount of money this season off those Cervelo's on the floor. Now they have to wait till next summer and hope to sell a new frame they have never seen and don't know if it will sell at the beginning - middle or end ( or at all) next year.

For a small dealer if they sell off 5 pairs of this special that is $10,000 thy don't have to get them through the winter (in Northern climates people stop buying bikes, not like Cali where you live) Or that means they have 10K less next spring to restock the shop with bikes/parts.
That $10 K difference can cause shops to close

So overall this is a bad deal and it is no surprise that some dealers are pissed off. Instead of making the dealers eat the $2,000 loss Cervelo should have given a rebate directly to retailer for their loss instead of a promise of a frame in the spring. Dealers would have been much happier with that deal
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Re: Cervelo - actual facts [Mr. Tibbs] [ In reply to ]
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>Good things come to those who wait. Now how about a picture of something like the P5 fork drop out. Just a little something. PLEASE!!!

Yes, a P5 strip-tease for New Year's Eve! I'll get out my dollar bills, and crack open that bottle of Maker's Mark.....
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Re: Cervelo - actual facts [gerard] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks, I just bought a cervelo before all this came out, and was a bit concerned that I had made the wrong purchase in relationship to potential resale down the road.
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Re: Cervelo - actual facts [gerard] [ In reply to ]
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Gerard,

Thank you! You personally helped me with my 1st P3 and fit in 1999. My 1st P3C in 2005 - you personally helped me again - thank you! I'l on my 3rd P3 and can't wait til the PX.


I personally appreciate the help you have given me.


Please share this photo with Phil (great Guy!):






And, Our Cervelo Family:






Best wishes,
david



David
* Ironman for Life! (Blog) * IM Everyday Hero Video * Daggett Shuler Law *
Disclaimer: I have personal and professional relationships with many athletes, vendors, and organizations in the triathlon world.
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Re: Cervelo - actual facts [Jackb] [ In reply to ]
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Jackb wrote:
So overall this is a bad deal and it is no surprise that some dealers are pissed off. Instead of making the dealers eat the $2,000 loss Cervelo should have given a rebate directly to retailer for their loss instead of a promise of a frame in the spring. Dealers would have been much happier with that deal
Something to keep in mind when you start your own bike company. Perhaps, on balance, the needs of Cervelo were more important than the needs of some dealers?
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Re: Cervelo - actual facts [gerard] [ In reply to ]
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gerard.... thanks for contributing your thoughts.... I am a die hard Cervelo fan.... own 2, working on 3

"if you chose it, it's not really pain"
Last edited by: d-elvis: Dec 31, 11 14:38
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Re: Cervelo - actual facts [d-elvis] [ In reply to ]
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I think this comic resumes the previous "Cervelo is Dead thread".

http://www.tmcm.com/...1/12/88_vilified.jpg

Well, almost.

G

http://brokeniron.blogspot.com/
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Re: Cervelo - actual facts [gregf83] [ In reply to ]
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Or, something to keep in mind for *any* business that has ditribution channels.
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Re: Cervelo - actual facts [Jackb] [ In reply to ]
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One of the things I think some of the smaller dealers are missing is the opportunity to get new customers to buy and make return trips to their shops. Some of the small dealers who don't want or like the Cervelo share a ride promotion have not only lost customers or sales but they have lost them to other Cervelo shops permanently.

@ Gerad, thanks for the info, we just purchased a P2 & P3 today, now proud members of the Cervelo Cult, I mean family. :)

************************
#WeAreTheForge #BlackGunsMatter

"Look, will you guys at leats accept that you are a bunch of dumb asses and just trust me on this one? Please?" BarryP 7/30/2012
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Re: Cervelo - actual facts [gregf83] [ In reply to ]
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I would be telling Cervelo they can eat the 2,000$ loss since they are touting themselves as being on par with other global bike brands. They are the ones with the deep pockets, not the mom and pop dealers
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Re: Cervelo - actual facts [gerard] [ In reply to ]
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gerard wrote:
4) The big companies are relatively so understaffed with engineers that for example the lay-up optimization work that Cervelo does in-house, Specialized cannot do themselves. They have to go outside to McLaren to get engineers to do it for them - ironically with the same software tools that Cervelo has in-house. Don't take my word for it, just read Specialized's marketing materials.

I find this an interesting comment, somewhat interesting because I am an engineer by trade...Chemical. My musings or wonderings would be whether or not having a company like McLaren coming in would be 'that' bad? I only ask because more and more 'big' companies who have typically done things 'in house' are finding out that they should focus on the one thing that they do and do it well. Software tools are one thing, but actual design and layup I assume...and we know the trouble ASSuming can get you in...is likely something all together different. I mean, in college I had no issue using a chemical engineering plant software tool, but asking me or a classmate to build something was completely different. 3T has engineers from Ferrari I think either working with them or working as 3T employees. So, my wondering is that is it necessarily a 'bad' thing that Specialized engineers may focus on what they do best and that is bike design. And, they let McLaren engineers focus on what they do best...working with Carbon? I have never ridden a Specialized bike. My last 4 bikes that are used on the road have all been Cervelos, and I'm still riding 2 of them.


Brandon Marsh - Website | @BrandonMarshTX | RokaSports | 1stEndurance | ATC Bikeshop |
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Re: Cervelo - actual facts [droid017] [ In reply to ]
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droid017 wrote:
The fact that you, a part owner of a company like cervelo...

I wish :-/

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
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Re: Cervelo - actual facts [Jackb] [ In reply to ]
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Jackb wrote:
I see this as a ok-good deal for the larger dealers out there. But for the small shops this is a bad deal. They expected to make that X amount of money this season off those Cervelo's on the floor. Now they have to wait till next summer and hope to sell a new frame they have never seen and don't know if it will sell at the beginning - middle or end ( or at all) next year.

You're making the assumption that those bikes would have been sold during that time frame anyway...I'm thinking that wasn't necessarily the case.

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
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Re: Cervelo - actual facts [gerard] [ In reply to ]
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gerard wrote:
1) I stated that being a large company CAN lead to unfocused efforts, not that it always will. But the example you give of Trek perfectly proves my point. Their Speed Concept is a great effort, not miles ahead of the rest of the world as they claim but slightly behind the best bikes on the market according to TOUR. At any rate, a good product. Then go back in time and see when the previous good TT bike (technically and commercially) was launched. You'd have to go pretty far back, because the focus wasn't on that niche in the years in-between.
2) Of course a large company can have different pots on the stove and focus on all of them, in theory that is possible. Especially if they run them all as separate divisions. Unfortunately, that's not what usually happens. In the end, it's often one board that signs off on projects. Take the basic idea on whether or not to spend money on developing a new project. It's not that project's division that decides that, it's usually the overall company's board. Which means that if they are really hurting in one area of their business, the focus is on that and is diverted from other areas.
3) Bike companies aren't as big as you make them out to be, there is no TT/Triathlon division at any large company that can function as an independent mini-company taking on Cervelo. There are the same or more engineers at Cervelo as there are in the big bike companies, and the latter have to be spread over many more projects so they get shifted around from one project to the next. Sometimes that's in triathlon, often it is not. Compared to engineers who are always focused on the same type of project, that warrants the analogy of the pots on the stove.
4) The big companies are relatively so understaffed with engineers that for example the lay-up optimization work that Cervelo does in-house, Specialized cannot do themselves. They have to go outside to McLaren to get engineers to do it for them - ironically with the same software tools that Cervelo has in-house. Don't take my word for it, just read Specialized's marketing materials.

Regarding the idea of showing new products in advance, We usually don't do that and I'm completely comfortable with that. It does sometimes work out negatively in individual cases such as your own, but overall it is the best strategy for us.

As for being late to the market, I think that's all relative. Having the newest bike is not that interesting, we know a certain company will always win that race because they bring out a new but essentially identical bike almost twice a year. The key is not to have the newest but to have the best bike, and independent tests show that Cervelo still wears that crown despite the advent of "newer" bikes. I personally believe more in introducing bikes when they are ready and when they offer a significant advantage over what is currently available, not when "the market" demands them regardless of whether a real improvement is offered. The latter may work in the short run, but eventually consumers figure out that these new bikes aren't better and it will turn against those companies.

Gerard,

Thank you for taking the time to respond to my comments, I enjoyed your perspective and insight. I respect what your company has done and think it is great you are bringing another cutting edge product to the market. Not to mention, its pretty awesome you jumped onto slowtwitch to chat it up.

Too bad I couldn't get my timing to work out right with purchasing a new Cervelo, otherwise the P5 would have been my first choice. I understand why you keep everything a secret and that is understandable. In the end, I'm happy with the Trek purchase...I was able to customize the paint and pick out all the parts with their "Project One" feature. I must say it is nice customizing your Tri bike so it doesn't look like every other dudes bike, especially if you are spending over $8k. At that point, I think it's cooler to have something semi-custom. Its all flat black with gloss black logos, kind of like your Project California R5ca bike.

When you say fastest bike...these days there isn't much of a night and day difference in what you consider the fastest bike. It really boils down to how fast I am as a rider. Don't get me wrong, it is really cool to know you have the fastest bike and be confident about it. I'm not a top age grouper or pro...I'm in my thirties shooting for an 11 hour IM. I'm probably closer to the average triathlete, which i would assume most companies would cater to? However, I'm some what new to the sport, so what do I know. If everything works out next time around maybe the Cervelo will be chillin in my garage. I wish you and your company the best. Happy New Year!
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