On the hierarchy of marginal gain ROI, is this the worst upgrade investment? $599 for "2.4 watts" per CeramicSpeed.

It's almost as bad as some of Roka's bike and run gear prices.

I own Roka's run gear and a cycling jersey. I love their gear and it's worth the money. However, this pulley system is really expensive. Ceramic Speed is definitely trying to recoup research and development costs. I just wanted to see who was interested in buying it.

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Hello Bryan0721 and All,


I see your point .....

http://www.ceramicspeed.com/...micspeed/save-watts/


Excerpt:


"The OSPW System is developed in collaboration with professional triathletes and tested throughout the development process. This unique system has been proved to increase your power savings starting from 2.4 watts and deliver 60 % less friction compared to others standard pulleys on the market." [emphasis added]

http://www.ceramicspeed.com/...y-wheel-system-test/

While other research has shown reduced power losses when running larger cogs with chain drives ..... it is worth noting that SRAM eTap Red comes with ceramic bearings stock in the pulley wheels ..... how much gain is there considering aero drag by going to a larger pulley when comparing both pulleys having ceramic bearings? ...... less than 1 watt??

How much of the net gain is from the larger pulley and how much of the gain is from the ceramic bearings?

That said .... I had ceramic speed pulleys (standard size) on my old bike and they worked great ....

I am all for marginal gains ...... but show me the watts .....

Watt me worry?

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Cheers, Neal

+1 mph Faster

I love the idea of saving another watt or two because I have already taken all of the low hanging fruit, most of the medium hanging fruit, and then even the high hanging fruit (trip to wind tunnel got the last few watts). Still, this $ is so damn high for what I think realistically is probably half of what they claim, I just don't know if I will be able to justify it. Probably will, but I am going to wait until I deserve to treat myself or something. Then again, maybe I save more by going etap and dropping that little piece of RD housing/cable. Wait! I need etap and the huge pulleys!

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Ironman Certified Coach

Currently accepting limited number of new athletes

I have the coated OSPW. I know it's not exactly measurable or definitive, but I did feel quite a big difference after I put them. I was not expecting to feel any difference: it felt much smoother while pedaling than before.

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blog

I don't doubt there is a benefit, but I wonder if just converting a long cage derailleur to use oversized pulleys won't do most of the job at a fraction of the cost?

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My Blog - http://leegoocrap.blogspot.com

The gain is from the pulley spinning slower and the larger diameter of the pulling reducing the chain angle. However, I still want to see aero data. Ceramic Speed claims it doesn't add drag but I want real data. If a disc rotor adds drag on a wheel, then these have the potential of adding drag too.

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2.4w savings for $600. That's fucking ridiculous.

If you only get 3w savings for that (look I rounded up bc I'm in a good mood for right now) that's about the stupidest decision one can make for ROI.

Heck I can guarantee double that savings for $500 and 1 hour in the wind tunnel if not 3x the savings.

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Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

If you ever test someone in the tunnel with these pulleys, let us know if they cause drag. I'm not buying them but I know people on here will.

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you'd have to swap out RDs to do that(at least 1x and that does not give you reliable info) and that would take a bunch of time(less with quick link but still a lot and that would just be adding to the wasted money already spent on the item to begin, but some folks have lots of extra money

Well...unless you can show me aero data...this is quite an expensive item. I've read the Friction Facts reports on the Berner cages. I remain unconvinced.

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well I di say it was wasted money to begin with, esp in the context of tri

I didn't bother to read but what power level is the 2.4 based upon. will have to go back to FF and see what they said. seemed like a waste. I still haven't entered the racing chain realm yet. what will one gain me in a 20k tt when already going 29.8mph?(yeah I can calc that)

Hey I am all for marginal gains and yes this is certainly on the expensive side, but the beauty is there is no guessing involved (outside of the question is does it create any more drag) The one problem with the wind tunnel, or any aero optimization is that you are dealing with wind and that is very tricky. Nobody actually rides a bike like they do in a wind tunnel or on the track. The result, although you may be getting optimized the savings might be inflated for real-world gains. Now, I am all for the wind tunnel, but I am all for things like this as well.

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So what you are saying is you will basically buy any product as long as someone gives you a watt savings advertisement on it?

For $600, you add chain length which adds weight with no idea if it causes drag at all. I've read a review where the author claimed it affected his shifting. You argue against manufacturer data from Flo yet easily believe Ceramic Speed?

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Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/

On the expensive side - yes!
But it really looks epic on the eTap !

I live and train in Holstebro, Denmark (where the Ceramicspeed is located) - and a lot of the employee's have been testing them out.
Kind of finish the look :)

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Long Distance PB: 8:25
Instagram: larsschmidttri

I don't have this system fwiw, I have the Berner system, I have explained numerous times why I have that particular system. I am not saying to throw money blindlessly at products, but on the backside, I have talked with some others about this product and I certainly approve.

To explain a little further, I think the typical age-grouper makes way too much fuss around aerodynamics. For one, they are shielded so much by other riders, now I know the stated drafted length has changed this past year at Ironman events, but from my days at 7m as an age-grouper the savings was huge. So you have the fact that aerodynamics are usually stated at 30mph, when riders are going what, <20mph for Ironman. Then you have the fact that many are shielded for a big portion of the time either being too close or passing or being passed. The beauty of chain efficiency is that even though it scales but it is not cubed. So if I am saving 3 watts at say 300 watts, the person riding 200 might be at 2.4 (not sure what the 2.4 is pinned at), that is still very helpful.

Again, there are a couple of different camps people fall in. One is, I NEED to go as fast as possible on reasonable dollars. I fall into that camp, as do a lot of other triathletes. The typical triathlete who wants to finish, I wouldn't bother with this, but then again nor would I bother with race wheels, yet for some reason they bother...

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Race wheels provide a much larger benefit than bigger pulley wheels.

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I will soon pe paranoid about what gear I am in ...

I must watch out for the derailleur being perpendicular to the Tarmac presenting its largest frontal area - got to shift ...

Oh balls, now I am crossing the bloc to much loosing efficiency - got to shift ...

Perfect, nice chain line and a pulled back mech so low frontal area :-)

Oh balls, now I have more chain wrap around my bottom pulley - is that costing me watts ?

Perhaps I would better getting off and pushing ...

Am I over thinking this ?

WD :-)

That wasn't my point. My point was more that people buy race wheels because they are "cool" which is about the most stupid reason to spend money IMO. I don't want to take this topic off tangent so I will leave it there.

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Isn't it sufficient to leave things at the first sentence? For some, a $600 dinner for two is fucking ridiculous while for others it's something that give them great satisfaction. For a college kid with very little disposable income, a $600 OSPW is fucking ridiculous because it's a fiscally irresponsible decision. For someone with adequate disposable income, maybe not. Is a $600 round of golf fucking ridiculous? A $600 suit? We can go on and on.

The MSRP for the OSPW is $600 and it probably saves you around 2.4W and potentially can have a measurable aero effect (though there are claims that it was tested and any effect was not statistically significant). I think it best to leave it at that and let the individual rider decide if it's "worth it" to them. Admittedly for most, I would say it probably isn't. But to categorically conclude that in all cases it is "fucking ridiculous" - that seems like an overstatement and does not allow for individual tastes and circumstances.

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Amateur recreational hobbyist cyclist
https://www.strava.com/athletes/337152
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Maybe we should try this one. It's much cheaper... no ceramic bearings but most of the watt savings come from the oversized pulleys anyway...

It has ceramic bearings in it

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Interesting but IMO that doesn't pass the aero test as well as the CS one. The CS one uses airfoil shapes at least.

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