50 years after learning to swim competitively, I still practice the same drill-single arm. One arm out in front for balance and I study the other arm to see if it's actually doing what it's *supposed* to.

If you know what should be doing, having only one arm to concentrate on may allow you to achieve mastery. Just my $.02 worth...

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DFL > DNF > DNS

Never heard the reaching over the hood of a car thing before but rather the visualization I've heard many times is to imagine a barrel in the water in front of you, and what you want to do is reach over the barrel and pull back with the vertical forearm. However, even this seems a bit of a stretch IMO. I think it best to stretch your arm out straight in front of you, then start pulling back and catching the water. The elbow will become vertical by itself if you are catching the water, and NOT letting it go (i.e., not dropping your elbow) until your hand passes under your hip. You should be able to feel the water rushing down your thigh onto your knee, and even on your upper shin if you are pulling properly. If you can feel this, then you're doing it right. TBH, it takes a bit of swim-specific strength to do the pull properly over and over and over again, so don't be surprised if your arms/shoulders are sore after your swim workout, and the next day. Just gotta keep doing it and in 6 months it will be second nature. :)

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

Try this visualization.

Go stand against a wall, left hip pressed into wall, left armpit against wall, left elbow against wall, left hand against wall, face pushed towards right arm pit, left hand beside left ear like you are about to "enter the water". Now tough your left hand against the wall as if you entered the water and sweep your right hand downward while keeping your right elbow locked to the wall. Now push your left hand forward into a glide position and rotate your left hip so it is locked against the wall and your right hip rotates up.

Now did you see what happens to your left elbow and left hand. It has no choice but to do early vertical forearm. I feel the EVF is an outcome of the torso rolling and the elbow being in the right configuration starting that. It just ends up vertical but it's only vertical relative to the water surface. It's almost parallel to the torso, because the working should move up towards the ceiling and backward, while the gliding shoulder moves down and forward.

Not sure if I explained it that well, but when I watch Phelps in slow motion it's close to that. It's not so much what the elbows are doing, it is what the core is doing to get the elbow where it is catching more (and the body ends up being streamlined more on the other side too).

Do a search for "Jonnyo tip of the week 5". He has a couple of good visual demonstrations for developing the EVF. I really like the tip using the exercise ball...it allows you to "feel" the correct technique.

This is one of the most instructive videos I've ever seen on the concept: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTQpF_mmg44

I try to do about 200 yards of single arm drills just about every single session and I've been swimming about 35 years. Helps reinforce the technique. One variant I've started doing (last 5 years or so) occasionally is to hold a kick board with the non stroking arm. It forces me into the right arm position.

This is what I was also going to recommend! Whenever I feel like my stroke is going to crap (well, it's not very good to start with), I always visualize the exercise ball and trying to get my arm around it and push back with the whole forearm. Just did this yesterday in the pool!

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Perhaps the easiest way to visualize the proper movement is to stand as tall as you can with your back against a wall, arms outstretched above your head, against the wall - basically a streamline position back flat against the wall. Keeping your upper-arm in contact with the wall, bring the hand/forearm to what would be the vertical forearm position WITHOUT moving your upper arm except to rotate it. Once you have achieved the "EVF" begin your "stroke."

For clarification, the upper arm and elbow MUST rotate to achieve the EVF, they do NOT move "back" (closer to your hips) until the EVF is achieved.

Taking that movement to the water is a matter of rotating from the vertical to the horizontal as you will be in the pool. In the water, the closer your elbow is to the surface during the initial EVF/catch/early pull, the better.

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"Obsessed is just a word the lazy use to describe the dedicated.

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JoelO is right on with the JonnyO video. For me, the revelation was the rotation that must happen of your entire arm before entry into the water - the Sharpie mark on the elbow is a great way to visualize.

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Brian

Gonna buy a fast car, put on my lead boots, take a long, long drive
I may end up spending all my money, but I'll still be alive

Here is what worked for me:



Do 3X per week in addition to your normal swimming (I usually do on days that I don't swim):

7x 1 min on/ 1min rest
(Or 4*2 min, 5*1.5 min - whatever)

Start out really slow (like 10 strokes a minute for the first 3 weeks) then slowly progress to your normal swim cadence.

Is it just me or are her arms really, really, really long?

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______________________________________________________________

Are you sure it is not a shoulder/scapula mobility issue that is limiting your capacity to master EVF?



I see this so so often with many athletes. If you look at any videos of good swimmers you will see that at the point of commencement of early vertical forearm their rotation is such that the angle shown above in red is quite closed (extension and retraction).

If you lack the mobility to internally rotate the shoulder at that EVF commencement due to closure of the above angle the only way to address this is by changing the timing of your stroke in relation to your rotation.

No catch drills will fix a lack of mobility. But some timing and rotation drills will enable you to find the point at which you can commence the EVF you seek, this may be such that you commence when your body is in a flatter position in the water than rotated over to the lead catching arm side.

Hope that makes sense.

Best,

David

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David T-D
http://www.tilburydavis.com

Pretty much this,

If you look at most AOS or older triathlete swimmers most do not have the ability (mobility) to internally rotate the shoulder BEFORE the elbow needs to go vertical.

Combine this with athletes who can not rotate their neck enough (requiring the whole upper body to rotate to breath) and you have some real challenges.

The hard part as a coach/athlete is to modify technique for the individual so they swim their best (fastest) for any given limitation. (IE as above less rotation, faster return to neutral or flat plain, faster stroke cycle etc)

Maurice

I have found that these special paddles were great as an EVF teaching aid when I have coached adult onset swimmers. But be aware that these are not training paddles, they are technique paddles. They might be worth a try for you:

http://www.techpaddle.com/

(no connection of any kind between us and this company, just have had good luck with these paddles)

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Advanced Aero TopTube Storage for Road, Gravel, & Tri...ZeroSlip & Direct-mount, made in the USA.
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I'd suggest getting a gopro underwater camera and video your stroke as you do laps, and modifying your stroke to raise the elbows instead of dropping them/

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res, non verba

I would also try visualizing your forearm as a paddle. And implement that visualization with fist drills - swim with closed fists. You'll need to get that forearm vertical pretty quick to get any forward momentum. Use a pull buoy, if you must. Alternate with a length of fist and a length of open hand concentrating on having your rams move the same way as with closed fists. Repeat this about 10 million times. I think this is the same concept to help reduce heel strike in running - run barefoot.

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Proud member of FISHTWITCH: doing a bit more than fish exercise now.

This looks awesome....I have to get some:

OK, I went to order, but by the time I pay shipping and conversion to $CAD I am sitting at $82 CAD! Worth it or not? In the scope of all the shit we spend on bike gear probably worth more in savings than anything I can buy for my bike.....but still!!!

You may not have the ability to internally rotate your shoulder, this is quite common. The life long swimmers who have the very
high elbow recovery have the oposite problem and many have very messed up shoulders also (or so my physio says)

Check this out

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4d7fsz3g7s

Anyone try these from FINIS. I can get them for half of the price of the others on this thread.

I have not tried the finis paddles. But I wonder if, instead, you contact that tech paddle people, and then ask them if they would be willing to ship US Postal Service 1st class international to Canada? Then there should be no brokerage fees and the postal rates should be fairly reasonable. We ship many of our Speedpacks to Canada this way.

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Advanced Aero TopTube Storage for Road, Gravel, & Tri...ZeroSlip & Direct-mount, made in the USA.
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I THINK the Finis paddles have the geometry backwards for the full effect. Sure the Finis forces you to swim with no break in the wrist but that is it. The other ones look like they create additional neural feedback to try and apply force with the forearm. I'll contact them to see about USPS first class (maybe a Postal blue train lead by George Hincapie will deliver it to my front door too).

Another option with the tech paddles to reduce shipping costs might be to do a group buy with a few other athletes in Canada ? Because even buying a few sets would great reduce the shipping cost for each set. Or so I would think.

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Advanced Aero TopTube Storage for Road, Gravel, & Tri...ZeroSlip & Direct-mount, made in the USA.
DarkSpeedWorks.com.....Reviews.....Insta.....Facebook
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When Sheila T was coaching my Masters team last year, she would set up a halo bench with tubing on deck. We would take turns during swim sets to hop up on the bench and go through a few sets of pulls, while she critiqued our catch & pull arm path. Still do it 2-3 times a week as part of my dryland workout. I had problems with flexibility in my shoulders and it has really helped me to learn to extend my scapulae forward and set my catch further out front.
Mark