Ironmanjp is one of those posters on the classifieds who seems to always have high end/brand new gear inventory listed at prices that just don't make a lot of sense...that is, until you deal with this guy and find out that no sale is worth the experience he puts you through. I'm a pretty reasonable and patient person and even more so when it comes to buying and selling items on the internet, but this was just the absolute worst person I've ever dealt with. It would have saved me considerable time and emotional/mental energy were there something to warn me of ironmanjp, hence this post
When he listed a Felt cx frame at a huge markdown a couple months ago, I scrambled to sell another bike and other gear so I swing the purchase financially. Before the transaction, I did a little bit of recon on him and found evidence that he was a legitimate seller...and since money was tight, I 'gifted' him the $2k to his wife's paypal email. This is standard operating procedure for him, I'd learned. One buyer told me to make sure to tell him to add insurance because of some shipping issues he'd had with the Canadian shipping company Purolator. He checked out otherwise.
On 2/4, I send the money and Ironmanjp tells me he'll get it shipped out the next day. He says he'll send tracking as soon as it goes out and says he'll add insurance.
On 2/9, I check in for the tracking I never received. He says "I'm shipping it through my bike shop to get a better shipping cost. I dropped it off almost immediately but they've been closed for several days due to a blizzard here. I will check with them today to see what the status is, sorry about the delay." Well, I checked, and there was some snow but it was not a blizzard. I also called a bike shop local to him, although I don't know if it was his shop, and they hadn't been closed. But, we are all entitled to our shipping delays, and some people prefer to lie rather than be accountable, so no matter...
On 2/13, I haven't heard anything. I ask again for tracking information and a status update. He responds: "I thought I gave you one? It shipped a while ago, it's coming from Canada but should arrive any day. It wasn't shipped with tracking but it's insured." This immediately makes no sense to me, and I confirm with Purolator that it's not possible to insure something and not having tracking or reference information. But, it's only a week in, and once again, maybe he's a liar or a jerk or both but probably not a cheat, so I sleep ok at night.
On 2/17, I casually question how one ships with insurance but not with tracking. Two weeks into this thing, it would really make me feel better to have tracking information. He says "I use a shipping service through my company so we just bulk ship, we've never had any major issues with lost items and if we do everything is insured." On it's face, this is odd because he's already told me he ships through his bike shop. But again I give him the benefit of the doubt even though I know from Linkedin stalking that he works for an oil company (not a bike shop).
On 2/22, I ask him how long it usually takes for U.S. buyers to receive items from him. After all, on 2/13 he told me that he shipped it 'a while ago', and it should 'arrive any day'. Yet now he says, "They said 12-14 business days normally but it all depends..." He goes on to cite multiple instances where shipping took roughly three weeks or a month in his recent sales. On the one hand, I'm relieved at what seems to be transparency for the first time. On the other hand, I am annoyed because a) I don't have tracking, and b) he's told me in a previous message that it will arrive 'any day'. But I try to be patient, because at least now, maybe he's decided not to leave me in the dark.
On 3/3, there's no sign of this bike. I ask him to check on it. He says "I'll look into it tomorrow and have an answer for you tomorrow night."
By 3/8, I still haven't from him, but I try to stay patient even though I'm pretty angry about all this. It's been a month, and I've sold a bike to pay for this, and I've started spec-ing components and tearing down another bike, etc. I reach out again and he says he checked on it and that "they are trying to track it." Remember, he claims to not have tracking, but 'they' apparently can track it. I call Purolator again and they essentially say that they can't track it without tracking or reference information, which an international shipment always/definitely has. So at this point I'm certain he's lying to me, but I'm also pretty sure he's lying to me because he lied about when he shipped (or didn't) and now needs to lie to cover up his lies with more lies. So needless to say, now I'm pretty much pissed. My annoyance is defrayed a bit by him saying "I'll give you a refund if I don't hear anything within the next few days."
On 3/11, I check in again to ask if he heard from the "they" who were "trying to track it". Note: at no point in this interaction thus far, or ever, does he actually reach out to me to give me any information, even after he says he's going to and promises to. This is the worst feeling when someone has your money and you have no recourse if they decide to stop responding...especially as hours and days tick by. He says "Sorry, still nothing. We are waiting to hear back from the shipping company. I am actually going in there today to meet with them." Again, this makes no sense--I've spoken with Purolator twice at this point, and neither time did I even have to hold. But, I don't ask. He then tells me he's recently had a set of Zipps take over 2 months to arrive, and other packages which are also missing. This makes me feel so much better! He concludes his message with his characteristic promise that I am almost certain will go unmet: "I'll let you know today"
By 3/12, I'm furious. He hasn't checked back in, as I anticipated...but at each turn in this interaction I kept waiting for him to not be a complete asshole, because it was just impossible for me to believe a human being could not possess a modicum of empathy for someone who has given their money with nothing to show for it. I explain that I'm nervous about this, I'm out of patience at this point, and I ask him for a refund--after all, it's been five weeks, and he promised a refund on 3/8. He simply doesn't reply.
On 3/13, I'm even more furious. I ask him if he got my message asking for a refund. He says he received the message, but he was on his phone at the time. He says he will give me a refund "this week". He wants to make sure the bike is accounted for. He said: "I was told Friday that they have a scan for it going through customs and being transferred to UPS." This is just the biggest fuck you. On Friday 3/11, he tells me he hasn't heard anything. But now, he's telling me he heard on Friday that it was transferred to UPS. And, he can't be bothered to respond to an anxious email and refund request when he gets to a PC, or forgets, or whatever. He says "As soon as they tell me it's located or lost I'll give you a refund."
On the morning of 3/14, I call Purolator and they tell me it's not possible to have a scan of an item going through customs and not have a reference/tracking number associated with that shipment. They can't look it up by U.S. destination, and neither can UPS, and after explaining the situation, both shipping companies tell me again that ironmanjp is lying, in so many words. I send him a final private message asking for tracking information. He replies: "No idea, if I knew that I could track it myself."
On 3/14, rather than Slowtwitch PM him, I email him and start to confront him about how little sense any of this makes, and forcing him to explain how the shipping company is tracking the shipment without tracking, and escalate my demand for a refund. He says the locating is done "based on a series of bar codes of packages that were shipped that week", "one of 50 different codes", and by recognition, because, he says "it was shipped in the Felt box the frame originally came in so it was pretty easy to recognize." If I weren't so pissed I would find this comical. "Hey, Purolator, can you keep an eye out for a Felt box? Yeah, it's got the Felt logo on it. Somewhere between Canada and the U.S., I'd say"
In response to my refund requests, which I've repeated three times, he either refuses to acknowledge them or puts it off. He says: "I am also looking out for myself here since I was told this is a pretty common scam." I can't even believe he's serious. I'm apoplectic. I've Paypal gifted this person $2k 6 weeks earlier, and he can't even prove to me that he's shipped the item. Through ALL this, I still don't think he's actually a cheat. I just think he's a huge asshole and a liar and just about the most inconsiderate person I've ever dealt with on the internet. With badgering, he says: "I will provide you with either the frame or your money before close of business on Wednesday at the latest and hopefully tomorrow since today was a stat holiday."
On the morning of 3/16, two days later, I ask him if he made progress and if he still anticipates having an answer and my money by close of business. I'm at my wits end and frankly I'm starting to lose sleep. I am ready to light up the internet and the phones to expose this guy. I am planning to file a police report, call his company's HR department, email his wife, light up his Facebook, start a thread here, etc. But if I went nuclear like this, I knew I'd probably not see my money again, since I did Paypal gift, and since he would probably want some sort of vengeance on me. So it's basically a lose-lose proposition for me, and I just hate the situation I'm in.
Amazingly, I don't hear back from him!
On the evening of 3/16, his self-imposed deadline date, I email him again and tell him it's well past the close of business. He responds that he's sorry, he was out getting groceries. Apparently he was getting groceries all day, as I sat stewing. He seems positively upbeat: "I actually have the frame located. It's here in my city and going to be delivered back to me tomorrow thankfully. There was an old shipping label on the box and it sat in the distribution centre for weeks not knowing where it had to go." Good grief. With characteristic ironmanjp style, he says, "I'll send you through a PayPal refund before I go to bed tonight."
I lay in bed that night unable to sleep because I am so angry. He hasn't sent the refund, of course. I end up waking up at 4 in the morning, sweating, and I can't go back to sleep.
On the morning of 3/17, I consider booking flights to St. Johns. I want to bring physical harm upon this person. I send him an email, "Let me guess, you forgot?" He responds several hours later, "Just sent it. I got the bike back this morning and no issues or anything with it. I am going to build it up and resell it I think...or maybe just keep it!" I had gotten the refund, at long last. But even in returning my money, he managed to send one final fuck you. I mean, through all of that, I did want the bike, and had made considerable sacrifice trying to attain it, and this asshole is just unaware or is aware and bragging that he tormented me for 6 weeks...he seems just giddy at the end of it. Meanwhile, I'm exhausted, physically and mentally. I reply to him: "Quite honestly, in 20 years of buying and selling items on the internet, you have been the most difficult, most dishonest, most obnoxious person I have ever dealt with, and it's not close."
His reply: "That response tells me a lot about your character...I could have not responded to any of your emails and just left you hanging. Especially since you paid as a gift. If I were that dishonest I'd still have your money. Please...get over yourself."
In some respects, I'd almost rather he have taken my money right from the beginning. This whole thing was just horrific to live through. To this day I don't know what he was lying about or why, but I do know at no point in the entire transaction did he actually do what he said he was going to do unprompted. I have some suspicion that he never sent the item at all, or sent it very late, or some other combination of incompetence and dishonesty. Regardless, he made promises he didn't keep, left me hanging more times than I can count, and generally was just a total jerk for the duration. Good riddance, ironmanjp
When he listed a Felt cx frame at a huge markdown a couple months ago, I scrambled to sell another bike and other gear so I swing the purchase financially. Before the transaction, I did a little bit of recon on him and found evidence that he was a legitimate seller...and since money was tight, I 'gifted' him the $2k to his wife's paypal email. This is standard operating procedure for him, I'd learned. One buyer told me to make sure to tell him to add insurance because of some shipping issues he'd had with the Canadian shipping company Purolator. He checked out otherwise.
On 2/4, I send the money and Ironmanjp tells me he'll get it shipped out the next day. He says he'll send tracking as soon as it goes out and says he'll add insurance.
On 2/9, I check in for the tracking I never received. He says "I'm shipping it through my bike shop to get a better shipping cost. I dropped it off almost immediately but they've been closed for several days due to a blizzard here. I will check with them today to see what the status is, sorry about the delay." Well, I checked, and there was some snow but it was not a blizzard. I also called a bike shop local to him, although I don't know if it was his shop, and they hadn't been closed. But, we are all entitled to our shipping delays, and some people prefer to lie rather than be accountable, so no matter...
On 2/13, I haven't heard anything. I ask again for tracking information and a status update. He responds: "I thought I gave you one? It shipped a while ago, it's coming from Canada but should arrive any day. It wasn't shipped with tracking but it's insured." This immediately makes no sense to me, and I confirm with Purolator that it's not possible to insure something and not having tracking or reference information. But, it's only a week in, and once again, maybe he's a liar or a jerk or both but probably not a cheat, so I sleep ok at night.
On 2/17, I casually question how one ships with insurance but not with tracking. Two weeks into this thing, it would really make me feel better to have tracking information. He says "I use a shipping service through my company so we just bulk ship, we've never had any major issues with lost items and if we do everything is insured." On it's face, this is odd because he's already told me he ships through his bike shop. But again I give him the benefit of the doubt even though I know from Linkedin stalking that he works for an oil company (not a bike shop).
On 2/22, I ask him how long it usually takes for U.S. buyers to receive items from him. After all, on 2/13 he told me that he shipped it 'a while ago', and it should 'arrive any day'. Yet now he says, "They said 12-14 business days normally but it all depends..." He goes on to cite multiple instances where shipping took roughly three weeks or a month in his recent sales. On the one hand, I'm relieved at what seems to be transparency for the first time. On the other hand, I am annoyed because a) I don't have tracking, and b) he's told me in a previous message that it will arrive 'any day'. But I try to be patient, because at least now, maybe he's decided not to leave me in the dark.
On 3/3, there's no sign of this bike. I ask him to check on it. He says "I'll look into it tomorrow and have an answer for you tomorrow night."
By 3/8, I still haven't from him, but I try to stay patient even though I'm pretty angry about all this. It's been a month, and I've sold a bike to pay for this, and I've started spec-ing components and tearing down another bike, etc. I reach out again and he says he checked on it and that "they are trying to track it." Remember, he claims to not have tracking, but 'they' apparently can track it. I call Purolator again and they essentially say that they can't track it without tracking or reference information, which an international shipment always/definitely has. So at this point I'm certain he's lying to me, but I'm also pretty sure he's lying to me because he lied about when he shipped (or didn't) and now needs to lie to cover up his lies with more lies. So needless to say, now I'm pretty much pissed. My annoyance is defrayed a bit by him saying "I'll give you a refund if I don't hear anything within the next few days."
On 3/11, I check in again to ask if he heard from the "they" who were "trying to track it". Note: at no point in this interaction thus far, or ever, does he actually reach out to me to give me any information, even after he says he's going to and promises to. This is the worst feeling when someone has your money and you have no recourse if they decide to stop responding...especially as hours and days tick by. He says "Sorry, still nothing. We are waiting to hear back from the shipping company. I am actually going in there today to meet with them." Again, this makes no sense--I've spoken with Purolator twice at this point, and neither time did I even have to hold. But, I don't ask. He then tells me he's recently had a set of Zipps take over 2 months to arrive, and other packages which are also missing. This makes me feel so much better! He concludes his message with his characteristic promise that I am almost certain will go unmet: "I'll let you know today"
By 3/12, I'm furious. He hasn't checked back in, as I anticipated...but at each turn in this interaction I kept waiting for him to not be a complete asshole, because it was just impossible for me to believe a human being could not possess a modicum of empathy for someone who has given their money with nothing to show for it. I explain that I'm nervous about this, I'm out of patience at this point, and I ask him for a refund--after all, it's been five weeks, and he promised a refund on 3/8. He simply doesn't reply.
On 3/13, I'm even more furious. I ask him if he got my message asking for a refund. He says he received the message, but he was on his phone at the time. He says he will give me a refund "this week". He wants to make sure the bike is accounted for. He said: "I was told Friday that they have a scan for it going through customs and being transferred to UPS." This is just the biggest fuck you. On Friday 3/11, he tells me he hasn't heard anything. But now, he's telling me he heard on Friday that it was transferred to UPS. And, he can't be bothered to respond to an anxious email and refund request when he gets to a PC, or forgets, or whatever. He says "As soon as they tell me it's located or lost I'll give you a refund."
On the morning of 3/14, I call Purolator and they tell me it's not possible to have a scan of an item going through customs and not have a reference/tracking number associated with that shipment. They can't look it up by U.S. destination, and neither can UPS, and after explaining the situation, both shipping companies tell me again that ironmanjp is lying, in so many words. I send him a final private message asking for tracking information. He replies: "No idea, if I knew that I could track it myself."
On 3/14, rather than Slowtwitch PM him, I email him and start to confront him about how little sense any of this makes, and forcing him to explain how the shipping company is tracking the shipment without tracking, and escalate my demand for a refund. He says the locating is done "based on a series of bar codes of packages that were shipped that week", "one of 50 different codes", and by recognition, because, he says "it was shipped in the Felt box the frame originally came in so it was pretty easy to recognize." If I weren't so pissed I would find this comical. "Hey, Purolator, can you keep an eye out for a Felt box? Yeah, it's got the Felt logo on it. Somewhere between Canada and the U.S., I'd say"
In response to my refund requests, which I've repeated three times, he either refuses to acknowledge them or puts it off. He says: "I am also looking out for myself here since I was told this is a pretty common scam." I can't even believe he's serious. I'm apoplectic. I've Paypal gifted this person $2k 6 weeks earlier, and he can't even prove to me that he's shipped the item. Through ALL this, I still don't think he's actually a cheat. I just think he's a huge asshole and a liar and just about the most inconsiderate person I've ever dealt with on the internet. With badgering, he says: "I will provide you with either the frame or your money before close of business on Wednesday at the latest and hopefully tomorrow since today was a stat holiday."
On the morning of 3/16, two days later, I ask him if he made progress and if he still anticipates having an answer and my money by close of business. I'm at my wits end and frankly I'm starting to lose sleep. I am ready to light up the internet and the phones to expose this guy. I am planning to file a police report, call his company's HR department, email his wife, light up his Facebook, start a thread here, etc. But if I went nuclear like this, I knew I'd probably not see my money again, since I did Paypal gift, and since he would probably want some sort of vengeance on me. So it's basically a lose-lose proposition for me, and I just hate the situation I'm in.
Amazingly, I don't hear back from him!
On the evening of 3/16, his self-imposed deadline date, I email him again and tell him it's well past the close of business. He responds that he's sorry, he was out getting groceries. Apparently he was getting groceries all day, as I sat stewing. He seems positively upbeat: "I actually have the frame located. It's here in my city and going to be delivered back to me tomorrow thankfully. There was an old shipping label on the box and it sat in the distribution centre for weeks not knowing where it had to go." Good grief. With characteristic ironmanjp style, he says, "I'll send you through a PayPal refund before I go to bed tonight."
I lay in bed that night unable to sleep because I am so angry. He hasn't sent the refund, of course. I end up waking up at 4 in the morning, sweating, and I can't go back to sleep.
On the morning of 3/17, I consider booking flights to St. Johns. I want to bring physical harm upon this person. I send him an email, "Let me guess, you forgot?" He responds several hours later, "Just sent it. I got the bike back this morning and no issues or anything with it. I am going to build it up and resell it I think...or maybe just keep it!" I had gotten the refund, at long last. But even in returning my money, he managed to send one final fuck you. I mean, through all of that, I did want the bike, and had made considerable sacrifice trying to attain it, and this asshole is just unaware or is aware and bragging that he tormented me for 6 weeks...he seems just giddy at the end of it. Meanwhile, I'm exhausted, physically and mentally. I reply to him: "Quite honestly, in 20 years of buying and selling items on the internet, you have been the most difficult, most dishonest, most obnoxious person I have ever dealt with, and it's not close."
His reply: "That response tells me a lot about your character...I could have not responded to any of your emails and just left you hanging. Especially since you paid as a gift. If I were that dishonest I'd still have your money. Please...get over yourself."
In some respects, I'd almost rather he have taken my money right from the beginning. This whole thing was just horrific to live through. To this day I don't know what he was lying about or why, but I do know at no point in the entire transaction did he actually do what he said he was going to do unprompted. I have some suspicion that he never sent the item at all, or sent it very late, or some other combination of incompetence and dishonesty. Regardless, he made promises he didn't keep, left me hanging more times than I can count, and generally was just a total jerk for the duration. Good riddance, ironmanjp