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Bradley Wiggins's position... how does he breathe?!?
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I mean, he's always had an aggressive position, but it looks like he's moved back a bit and/ or more stretched out in the above photo from the Dauphine Libere this week (above) compared to the below photo from the 2009 TdF. Specifically, look at the distance from the knee to triceps.



How does he breathe like that? Is there some special technique to not crush your diaphragm?

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My Science Blog
"The only fair race is the race against the clock" -Anquetil

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Re: Bradley Wiggins's position... how does he breathe?!? [Ryon] [ In reply to ]
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By opening his mouth causing a pressure difference in his lungs to the outside air ;) Really that's not a hard position to breath in.
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Re: Bradley Wiggins's position... how does he breathe?!? [Ryon] [ In reply to ]
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Aero cannula.
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Re: Bradley Wiggins's position... how does he breathe?!? [Ryon] [ In reply to ]
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This is not his normal TT position. In the other photos I saw from yesterday's TT, he was normally sitting in a much more forward position. In the first picture I suspect he's descending and trying to be as aero as possible, not necessarily powerful or comfortable.
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Re: Bradley Wiggins's position... how does he breathe?!? [Ryon] [ In reply to ]
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I was watching the TT yesterday and with those socks hiked up high, all I could think is that he looks like a stork. "Lanky Scottsman" is an understatement, but damn, he tore up that TT. He also looks super lean and I'm really keen to see how he goes in the mountains this weekend.
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Re: Bradley Wiggins's position... how does he breathe?!? [Ryon] [ In reply to ]
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Likely he's expanding his lungs into his abdomen. Belly breathing! On another note, Is your downward sloping torso really faster than a flat/level back? Im sure Wiggins has spent some serious time in a wind tunnel, but his position is quite unique.
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Re: Bradley Wiggins's position... how does he breathe?!? [Ryon] [ In reply to ]
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Can't remember if it was Cobb or Hed, but somebody recently did a bunch of tunnel stuff w/ top TTers, and one of the most aero athletes they tested was Kristin Armstrong. The message, at least insofar as I got it right, was that her "superman" was more aero than most of the more contemporary 90-degree arm positions:


Your two pix of Wiggins makes me think he's moved in that direction.

Sidenote, I'm usually behind, but what is up w/ that helmet?
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Re: Bradley Wiggins's position... how does he breathe?!? [rrkid] [ In reply to ]
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rrkid wrote:
Can't remember if it was Cobb or Hed, but somebody recently did a bunch of tunnel stuff w/ top TTers, and one of the most aero athletes they tested was Kristin Armstrong. The message, at least insofar as I got it right, was that her "superman" was more aero than most of the more contemporary 90-degree arm positions:


Your two pix of Wiggins makes me think he's moved in that direction.

Sidenote, I'm usually behind, but what is up w/ that helmet?

I would say more that that is shes female so probably has the smallest body of the group.
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Re: Bradley Wiggins's position... how does he breathe?!? [Ryon] [ In reply to ]
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i think the "breathing" issue is urban mythology. i think ventilation is rarely an issue in bike positioning. i think "opening up the lungs" is a proxy for other things, like, opening up the hip angle so that a mechanical advantage can be gained over the resistance that needs to be overcome.

elbows in tight, position too stretched out, armrest drop too low, are all problems, or can be problems. i just don't think they're usually problems of ventilation. of course, it's easily tested with a fit bike and a spirometer. still, even if a position caused a drop from, say, 4 liters of air per inhalation to 3.9 liters, you'd still have to demonstrate that uptake was compromised.

i'm not stating this as a fact, rather as an opinion. it's a guess, and my guess may be inaccurate. but i haven't seen anything yet that suggests that ventilation is the determiner of TT positions to the degree people seem to think they are.


Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Bradley Wiggins's position... how does he breathe?!? [rrkid] [ In reply to ]
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yes it is pretty well understood that stretched out is fast.

the 90 degree rule of thumb is for comfort more than speed.



Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
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Re: Bradley Wiggins's position... how does he breathe?!? [draketriathlon] [ In reply to ]
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draketriathlon wrote:
rrkid wrote:
Can't remember if it was Cobb or Hed, but somebody recently did a bunch of tunnel stuff w/ top TTers, and one of the most aero athletes they tested was Kristin Armstrong. The message, at least insofar as I got it right, was that her "superman" was more aero than most of the more contemporary 90-degree arm positions:


Your two pix of Wiggins makes me think he's moved in that direction.

Sidenote, I'm usually behind, but what is up w/ that helmet?


I would say more that that is shes female so probably has the smallest body of the group.

Not sure about that - can't get pipes any thinner than Wiggins! Plus, women generally have much wider hips, esp to very thin body types like Bradley's.

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Re: Bradley Wiggins's position... how does he breathe?!? [Ryon] [ In reply to ]
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Does anyone else find the "PROtotype" decals on what are so obviously HED3s to be incredibly funny? Of all the wheels to pretend are Shimano PRO prototypes, you'd think they'd pick a wheel that isn't universally recognizable...


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Re: Bradley Wiggins's position... how does he breathe?!? [Ryon] [ In reply to ]
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his crank/big ring is funky as hell? whats with the 'extra' oval shape???
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Re: Bradley Wiggins's position... how does he breathe?!? [rroof] [ In reply to ]
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rroof wrote:
draketriathlon wrote:
rrkid wrote:
Can't remember if it was Cobb or Hed, but somebody recently did a bunch of tunnel stuff w/ top TTers, and one of the most aero athletes they tested was Kristin Armstrong. The message, at least insofar as I got it right, was that her "superman" was more aero than most of the more contemporary 90-degree arm positions:


Your two pix of Wiggins makes me think he's moved in that direction.

Sidenote, I'm usually behind, but what is up w/ that helmet?


I would say more that that is shes female so probably has the smallest body of the group.


Not sure about that - can't get pipes any thinner than Wiggins! Plus, women generally have much wider hips, esp to very thin body types like Bradley's.

Not disagreeing you may very well be right. I just think there is more than one variable going into the equation then she is faster because her arms aren't at 90 degrees. If that makes sense.
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Re: Bradley Wiggins's position... how does he breathe?!? [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
i think the "breathing" issue is urban mythology. i think ventilation is rarely an issue in bike positioning. i think "opening up the lungs" is a proxy for other things, like, opening up the hip angle so that a mechanical advantage can be gained over the resistance that needs to be overcome.

elbows in tight, position too stretched out, armrest drop too low, are all problems, or can be problems. i just don't think they're usually problems of ventilation. of course, it's easily tested with a fit bike and a spirometer. still, even if a position caused a drop from, say, 4 liters of air per inhalation to 3.9 liters, you'd still have to demonstrate that uptake was compromised.

i'm not stating this as a fact, rather as an opinion. it's a guess, and my guess may be inaccurate. but i haven't seen anything yet that suggests that ventilation is the determiner of TT positions to the degree people seem to think they are.

That's a very good point. TT's are almost never at VO2max effort, so compromising more than a few % of maximum breathing might not be an issue.

Regarding the stretched position... I found this on the Team SKY website.

contrast to the 2009 TdF photo

He looks pretty far forward perched on both saddles. Perhaps more so for the TdF? It could also be a longer saddle. Though it does look like he is farther aft in his overall position and more "stretched out"... I wonder if this is an aerodynamic advantage?

-----------------------
My Science Blog
"The only fair race is the race against the clock" -Anquetil

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Re: Bradley Wiggins's position... how does he breathe?!? [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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Rappstar wrote:
Does anyone else find the "PROtotype" decals on what are so obviously HED3s to be incredibly funny? Of all the wheels to pretend are Shimano PRO prototypes, you'd think they'd pick a wheel that isn't universally recognizable...

Haha. Yeah, I was thinking the same thing...

-----------------------
My Science Blog
"The only fair race is the race against the clock" -Anquetil

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Re: Bradley Wiggins's position... how does he breathe?!? [Matafan] [ In reply to ]
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Matafan wrote:
This is not his normal TT position. In the other photos I saw from yesterday's TT, he was normally sitting in a much more forward position. In the first picture I suspect he's descending and trying to be as aero as possible, not necessarily powerful or comfortable.

This is correct. When I initially saw this photo yesterday I thought he had completely changed his position, but when watching the coverage on versus I'm not even sure it's different from what he's been riding all year. I think you're right that this was just during a decent and he's tucking to get more aero.
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Re: Bradley Wiggins's position... how does he breathe?!? [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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well at least they didn't bother to PROtotype the lightweight disc.
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Re: Bradley Wiggins's position... how does he breathe?!? [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Is it possible to have your arms stretched out forward like that and not require additional muscle recruitment? Is strengthening the shoulders to be able to push backwards a requirement so you don't keep sliding forward? If you had really flexible shoulders/back and no arm muscle it might be a little easier to hold them out there, but I think that is a pretty tough position to hold for an hour.

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Re: Bradley Wiggins's position... how does he breathe?!? [Ryon] [ In reply to ]
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a semi superman actually helps me breathe since my elbows are narrow and is a lot more aero
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Re: Bradley Wiggins's position... how does he breathe?!? [Ryon] [ In reply to ]
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I was/am more amazed at how ugly those pinarello TT bikes are and how un-aero they look.
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Re: Bradley Wiggins's position... how does he breathe?!? [BSUdude] [ In reply to ]
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BSUdude wrote:
I was/am more amazed at how ugly those pinarello TT bikes are and how un-aero they look.

Yeah I had to laugh yesterday when Bob roll said that Wiggins was much better at equipment selection than vinokourov. The cable routing on that pinarello is atrocious, while vino is on a Shiv. Not saying in other aspects Bob roll isn't right, but I just found that funny.

Also if I hear Bob roll over-pronounce one more damn name I might shoot myself. I finds his commentary extremely annoying. Everyone and their mother knows how to pronounce zabriskie's last name, but to Bob roll its always zabreeeeski.
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Re: Bradley Wiggins's position... how does he breathe?!? [Carl Spackler] [ In reply to ]
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Carl Spackler wrote:
I was watching the TT yesterday and with those socks hiked up high, all I could think is that he looks like a stork. "Lanky Scottsman" is an understatement, but damn, he tore up that TT..

Actually, he's English (not a Scot) but you're right he does look super lean. Interesting also that he was so cautious on the decsent when he is known to be a very good descender.
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Re: Bradley Wiggins's position... how does he breathe?!? [Ryon] [ In reply to ]
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Is it just me or does it seem to be a bit of an optical illusion because of the different seatpost angles??? Maybe the two positions shown are not that far removed due to the geometry of the Graal vs the DA?? On the DA his elbows are over the stem but the Graal looks like the Head tube has more rake?? The back is obviously flatter on the Graal.
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Re: Bradley Wiggins's position... how does he breathe?!? [triarcher] [ In reply to ]
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I got a $ says the position are identical just in different states of scooted forwardness on the saddle at different times.



Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
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