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Bottom Bracket. CHRIS KING v. HAWK
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I'm building up a P3 and would like to get some feedback on both brands. I know Hawk is less known but I have heard good things on them (value, silky smooth). Chris King of course is very well known but if I'm not mistaken they just recently added bottom brackets. Here's what I'm looking for in feedback:

-Have you used both?
-What has been their Durability?
-Benefits?
-Drawbacks?
-Personal Preference?

Thanks for the help. Oh yea I'm not spending more money on ceramic....call me crazy.
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Re: Bottom Bracket. CHRIS KING v. HAWK [btcusack] [ In reply to ]
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We recently built up a P3 with the Chris King BB and I was really impressed on how smooth it was. You could spin it and get 6 revolutions out of it easy.

The P3 owner is a fellow STer so hopefully he can log on some miles and give a field report.

-Adam

http://www.austintricyclist.com
Facebook http://www.facebook.com/austintricyclist
Twitter: http://twitter.com/#!/ATCTriShop

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Re: Bottom Bracket. CHRIS KING v. HAWK [btcusack] [ In reply to ]
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Its not a triathlon application, but I know several ultra endurance Mtb freaks who have been running the Chris King bottom brackets. Still running very smooth after thousands of off road miles in all kinds of weather, dust, rain and mud with the odd creek crossing thrown in for good measure. The nice feature of the King is if you buy the grease injector tool you can run different viscosity of grease depending on your use and weather conditions. A King BB is high up my list of things to get for my bike.
I have had no experience with the Hawk BB's.

Kevin
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Re: Bottom Bracket. CHRIS KING v. HAWK [btcusack] [ In reply to ]
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I don't know anything about Hawk, and I don't have any direct personal experience with the CK BB - however, I do trust pretty much anything CK makes, and would count on their BB to be of the highest quality.


<If you're gonna be dumb, you gotta be tough>
Get Fitter!
Proud member of the Smartasscrew, MONSTER CLUB
Get your FIX today?
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Re: Bottom Bracket. CHRIS KING v. HAWK [btcusack] [ In reply to ]
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You can't go wrong with the crafted/engineered USA made quality that CK represents. I know it seems expensive, but you have to look at CK as a 5 year investment. What makes a CK bearing good is the dirt/dust sealing and the ability to easily service the bearing to remove any contaminates and install fresh lubricant. What makes them expensive is that all of their products are made in Portland using well paid USA labor and you get a GREAT warranty... that costs. Some things are worth it (CK products) and some are not (ceramic bearings).

The only thing I worry about with a CK bottom bracket is that it is possible in 3 years we will have a new bottom bracket system.
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Re: Bottom Bracket. CHRIS KING v. HAWK [btcusack] [ In reply to ]
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I bought two Hawk BBs last month in part because of a recommendation from a local roadie I respect here on the West Side of LA and partly because of this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UTvr1WcOT4.

I installed both and they've been GREAT! I'm only put 300mi (Cervelo Soloist) on the road bike and ~100 on the TT (Cervelo P2) but much of it has been in the rain. They've been perfect.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I like the pursuit of mastery
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Bottom Bracket. CHRIS KING v. HAWK [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
I bought two Hawk BBs last month in part because of a recommendation from a local roadie I respect here on the West Side of LA and partly because of this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UTvr1WcOT4.

I don't know that "the spin test" is a valid measurement of BB quality. Sure, intuitively anything that spins longer should be better - it requires less wattage to turn, etc. But that "test" fails to account for things like bearing seals, hardness and roundness of the bearings themselves, machining tolerances (fit - specifically into the shell but also at the crank interface), etc. I'm not saying that Hawk doesn't make a quality product, just that that particular demonstration as an advertising strategy does not really prove anything.


<If you're gonna be dumb, you gotta be tough>
Get Fitter!
Proud member of the Smartasscrew, MONSTER CLUB
Get your FIX today?
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Re: Bottom Bracket. CHRIS KING v. HAWK [Khai] [ In reply to ]
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Great info and thanks for commenting

I think it's fair to say that you can't go wrong with Chris King. Durability and quality are not challenged there. Regarding Hawk- They are a smaller company working hard to change the perception that the only way to have a better 'spinning/less friction bracket' is to go with ceramic. They shift the focus from the bearings to the housing and lubricant. (all info I got from my lbs)

When it comes down to it a 110 dollar investment can be reversed if the wrong choice is made. If the Hawk breaks down CK it is!

If anyone else has had experience with Hawk BB let us know.
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Re: Bottom Bracket. CHRIS KING v. HAWK [btcusack] [ In reply to ]
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Hawk racing? The same company that can't spell ABEC right on their webpage? :) I'd be very skeptical of "Folmer Technology (patent pending)" when it's discussed no where what that actually is.

it's important to remember that Chris King actually makes their BB. Hawk is just an importer. If you poke around, you can find the "Hawk" BB plenty of places. They are just like Planet-X or any of the companies that source open mold frames. This is just an "open mold" BB. I wouldn't waste money on a Hawk BB. There are some interesting BB projects out there - not saying GOOD, just interesting - from companies like Rotor. But I heard enough about the Hawk BB to be very, very scared. Bicycle bearings are a very different world than other applications. Low spin rate relative to the load. Very few - if any applications - I can think of have such low spin rates and such high - proportional - load, especially in the way that bottom brackets are loaded.

The Hawk BB is no different than their wheels - just a rebadged part from some factory. This doesn't mean it's a bad BB by any means. It just means it's VERY different from what you get with King.

"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp
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Re: Bottom Bracket. CHRIS KING v. HAWK [btcusack] [ In reply to ]
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Read this: http://www.hawk-racing.com/frames/technology.htm

It's a not very elegant smoke-and-mirrors page that says absolutely nothing of substance.

Now read this: http://chrisking.com/bottombracket

It's a very simple, very clear statement of what you are getting.

It's not even a question in my mind as to which one I'd buy...

"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp
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Re: Bottom Bracket. CHRIS KING v. HAWK [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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i smell a rebadged token bb... :)

go with chris king, fine sir!
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Re: Bottom Bracket. CHRIS KING v. HAWK [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
Hawk racing? The same company that can't spell ABEC right on their webpage? :) I'd be very skeptical of "Folmer Technology (patent pending)" when it's discussed no where what that actually is.

it's important to remember that Chris King actually makes their BB. Hawk is just an importer. If you poke around, you can find the "Hawk" BB plenty of places. They are just like Planet-X or any of the companies that source open mold frames. This is just an "open mold" BB. I wouldn't waste money on a Hawk BB. There are some interesting BB projects out there - not saying GOOD, just interesting - from companies like Rotor. But I heard enough about the Hawk BB to be very, very scared. Bicycle bearings are a very different world than other applications. Low spin rate relative to the load. Very few - if any applications - I can think of have such low spin rates and such high - proportional - load, especially in the way that bottom brackets are loaded.

The Hawk BB is no different than their wheels - just a rebadged part from some factory. This doesn't mean it's a bad BB by any means. It just means it's VERY different from what you get with King.





So, RAPPSTAR, because a mistake with a P instead of a B on the Hawk Racing website that's what you base your know-how on products from Hawk Racing? An because Hawk Racing cups are an open mold, that means the products are bad? Well, maybe the Lexus RX10 and also the Hyundai Veracruz are an open mold too, because both cars look almost the same but have different engines right? Furthermore because you heard enough about Hawk Racing that means you can talk like that about a product you never used yourself? Your feedback has no value to me.

Hawk Racing bearings are unique in the industry and are made in Japan (ABEC and ISO certified). Hawk Racing gives 2 years warranty on the bearings and you don't need a service either. Furthermore, the hubs and also bearings in the wheels are made by Hawk Racing.

Frames have been dropped by Hawk Racing because it was to expensive to create something expensive and unique.

Athletes who are using Hawk Racing bottom brackets and wheels have been VERY PLEASED with the performance of the products. Some teams and athletes who are using the BB are: Pro Cycling Team Adageo Energy Pro Cycling, Elite Team Global Bikes, Ironman Champion Nina Kraft, Pro Triathlete Jessica Jacobs, Pro Triathlete Maksym Kriat (finished 8th at MIT on Sunday), Pro Cyclist Bobby Sweeting or the AeroCat Cycling Team. Even Pro BMX rider Maris Strombergs who won the Gold Medal at the 2008 Olympics is riding the BB from Hawk Racing. I can continue the list, but I think you get the Point RAPPSTAR.

A view reviews from other companies can be find at: http://www.floridaracingmagazine.com/feb-2-2010.html Page 7 or http://thisweekintriathlon.com/ or just follow the Hawk Racing Fan page on Facebook and read the feedback of the products.

Jordan, athletes come to pages like Slowtwich to get feedback from other athletes who have tried products not have heard about it. So try the Hawk Racing BB and than give feedback.

Hawk Racing is the ONLY company in the industry who gives also a 30 warranty that if you don't like the wheels after you ride them you return them and get the money back.

Since you didn't use the chance to talk to me on our last bike ride together with Nina and Dirk, next time call me before you give feedback about our products only heard about it and I let you try it. My email address is on the website.

For everybody else out reading this. We design our own products and we are a small company. Everything is covered under warranty. We believe so much in our products, that we give you a money back-guaranty on ALL our products so that athletes can give a new company a try as well. We will be at the Interbike in 2010 to show the 2011 product line.

Once again: If you purchase our products and you are 100% happy with them, return them and Hawk Racing will give you a refund. Let us know what you didn't like and we try to design something better. Thank you!

Sven Folmer
Founder of Hawk Racing and Folmer Technology
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Re: Bottom Bracket. CHRIS KING v. HAWK [btcusack] [ In reply to ]
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btcusack,

Thank you for posting a question about Hawk Racing products on Slowtwitch and your interest in our products. Like I said already on my reply to Jordan, we products and design most of our products ourself. Our custom clothing, hubs, bearings and some products are designed by Hawk Racing and products like our rims and spokes are used from other big companies. Something we like does not get designed new. Sapim CX Ray spokes are awesome, so why make something different?

I wish Jordan would have used the chance to talk to me on our bike ride a few weeks ago and I would have let him try the products he left a feedback on. I hope we will use my offer and gives our products a try.

Regards to your question, please feel free to order our BB, install it and give it a go. If you are not 100% happy with it, PLEASE return them to your bike shop or to us if you ordered them online from our online shop. We give you a refund and you get a different product. Just let us know what you didn't like so we can continue our mission in designing great products for Cycling and Triathlon. That was my mission when I started the business and the expo at the Miami International Triathlon on the weekend has shown me we are on the right track.

Thank you!

Sven
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Re: Bottom Bracket. CHRIS KING v. HAWK [btcusack] [ In reply to ]
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Chris King gets my vote also but a little more information from the orginal poster would be nice, especially if you consider that the while CK bottom bracket works great with Shimano style cranksets, it will probably not work with FSA K-Force Light, nor am I certain that they are compatible with SRAM GXP style cranksets.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Re: Bottom Bracket. CHRIS KING v. HAWK [SveninderSonne] [ In reply to ]
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As a mechanical engineer (professionally licensed in the state of Texas) I have a couple of questions and I have to warn you... Like Jordan I am HIGHLY sceptical of your claims on bearings.

1) Mispelling ABEC reeks of marketing hype, you did it 7x on one page. It doesn't mean much overall, just makes me highly suspicious. It is similar to "china" talk marketing.

2). Hyundai is notorious in the industry for copying the styling and design of other brands. This is not a bad thing as it helps them make a good product with vastly less R&D. In fact, no car maker has ever been so good so fast. But Hyundai is not an open mold of Lexus. Your analogy isn't valid here.

3) Abec and Iso ratings for bearings are not certifications, they are manufacturing standards. As the VAST majority of bearing are made to Abec and Iso standards it means little that your bearings have this, in fact it is the BASELINE standard for which bearings should be made. It would be like Hyundai bragging that they acid wash and primer their cars before painting... That is what everyone does.


I have a couple questions for you and I think this represents a good time for you to clear the marketing BS and tell us why Hawk bearings are actually better than the competition.

-what is your pending patent number for foulmer technology, so we can see it for ourself.
-explain foulmer technology, what does it do?
-are you an engineer?
-who designed your bearings?
-specifically why are your bearings made better? Tighter tolerences in the balls/races, better lubrication, better sealing?



In Reply To:
So, RAPPSTAR, because a mistake with a P instead of a B on the Hawk Racing website that's what you base your know-how on products from Hawk Racing? An because Hawk Racing cups are an open mold, that means the products are bad? Well, maybe the Lexus RX10 and also the Hyundai Veracruz are an open mold too, because both cars look almost the same but have different engines right? Furthermore because you heard enough about Hawk Racing that means you can talk like that about a product you never used yourself? Your feedback has no value to me.

Hawk Racing bearings are unique in the industry and are made in Japan (ABEC and ISO certified). Hawk Racing gives 2 years warranty on the bearings and you don't need a service either. Furthermore, the hubs and also bearings in the wheels are made by Hawk Racing.

Frames have been dropped by Hawk Racing because it was to expensive to create something expensive and unique.

Athletes who are using Hawk Racing bottom brackets and wheels have been VERY PLEASED with the performance of the products. Some teams and athletes who are using the BB are: Pro Cycling Team Adageo Energy Pro Cycling, Elite Team Global Bikes, Ironman Champion Nina Kraft, Pro Triathlete Jessica Jacobs, Pro Triathlete Maksym Kriat (finished 8th at MIT on Sunday), Pro Cyclist Bobby Sweeting or the AeroCat Cycling Team. Even Pro BMX rider Maris Strombergs who won the Gold Medal at the 2008 Olympics is riding the BB from Hawk Racing. I can continue the list, but I think you get the Point RAPPSTAR.

A view reviews from other companies can be find at: http://www.floridaracingmagazine.com/feb-2-2010.html Page 7 or http://thisweekintriathlon.com/ or just follow the Hawk Racing Fan page on Facebook and read the feedback of the products.

Jordan, athletes come to pages like Slowtwich to get feedback from other athletes who have tried products not have heard about it. So try the Hawk Racing BB and than give feedback.

Hawk Racing is the ONLY company in the industry who gives also a 30 warranty that if you don't like the wheels after you ride them you return them and get the money back.

Since you didn't use the chance to talk to me on our last bike ride together with Nina and Dirk, next time call me before you give feedback about our products only heard about it and I let you try it. My email address is on the website.

For everybody else out reading this. We design our own products and we are a small company. Everything is covered under warranty. We believe so much in our products, that we give you a money back-guaranty on ALL our products so that athletes can give a new company a try as well. We will be at the Interbike in 2010 to show the 2011 product line.

Once again: If you purchase our products and you are 100% happy with them, return them and Hawk Racing will give you a refund. Let us know what you didn't like and we try to design something better. Thank you!

Sven Folmer
Founder of Hawk Racing and Folmer Technology
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Re: Bottom Bracket. CHRIS KING v. HAWK [ms6073] [ In reply to ]
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i have a the Hawk bottom bracket, i am building my bike with it, i also have the Hawk racing clothing for our team, sven is a class act business man, is name is behind his products,

because a company has a better web designer doesn't mean they have a better product, i am a race director, my web site is not has nice at ironman but i put up the same race.

buy it from me if you don't like it i will refund your money



thierry rouillard
941 539 3756
www.bikesonjava.com -
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Re: Bottom Bracket. CHRIS KING v. HAWK [btcusack] [ In reply to ]
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Those of us who waited a LONG time for the spy shots of proto CK BB's to turn into product for sale don't think they were added just recently. We feel like they've been with us for years, just out of reach ;)

The GXP compatible CK BB is pretty recent however, and I'll have one on my desk soon (for a 975 Quarq setup), will report back if I have any issues with it but I expect not.

I have a pretty strong preference for companies who actually make their own stuff, or at least make a lot of stuff and outsource very selectively, fwiw.

Cyclist turned multisport enthusiast. Human performance technologist and digital health expert in my day job.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/karletzel/
https://www.strava.com/athletes/karletzel
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Re: Bottom Bracket. CHRIS KING v. HAWK [btcusack] [ In reply to ]
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Chris King has a great product and a following. although i haven't had the opportunity to test them out yet, i've never heard anything bad other than they are generally higher in price.

since coming into the sport of road racing, and triathlon in 2004 i've had the opportunity to ride several different BB's including the FSA ceramic, the new Capagnolo Record, and the HAWK. personally, i don't think there is a noticeable difference between how the FSA/HAWK function or perform. although i know this isn't a 'real world' test - i do like how the ceramic and HAWK spin w/o the chain fastened. much better than other name brands in the industry.

while not having an endless bank account and time to give all the BB's a fair test run i've come to respect what i've found in the HAWK product. for me, it has been the best bang for buck in my experiences with BB's. Sven of HAWK is one hell of an ambitious entrepreneur who is originally from Germany, so judging his BB quality on his ability to spell is wrong. his company is very small, yet he seems to want to create a high quality product while keeping the prices manageable. he even offers a 30day $ back warranty. his BB's branch across many different areas of the cycling world and at a price that beats ceramic, Chris King, and Campy.

out of my own curiosity, i would love to somehow create a way scientifically measure the distinct resistance difference's between BB's while using my pwr meter as a measuring tool. until then, i've liked the reliability i've seen with the HAWK BB.
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Re: Bottom Bracket. CHRIS KING v. HAWK [btcusack] [ In reply to ]
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I sure wouldn't give a product the boot b/c of a misspelled word on a web site, just as I don't give much thought to an artful expose of marketing jargon. If it works on the road with real world exposure I'm sold. Maybe the guy at Hawk runs a lean machine business and hasn't hired a big dollar web designer? Being a business owner and entrepreneur I can respect that and to that end I don't feel like paying high prices for marketing campaigns so Hawk at the very least would merit a look see by me next time I need a bb.

Some folks are brand whores and that is fine, some people want pure function and that's great too. I probably fall somewhere in the middle as I don't want to take a flier on a complete unknown with something like a bottom bracket which means riding or no riding. However, I look at the performance I have had with 'low end' components and by and large they last longer and perform nearly as well, which for this amateur is fine. Shimano 105 has far outlived any Dura Ace component I have owned.

I will be interested to read how Hawk progresses and how he performs with reviewers. Good luck Hawk I love to see the entrepreneurial spirit in any form! Trust me, criticism like this is good b/c the last thing these $150 bb manufacturers want is some guy who does it for a fraction of the cost with similar performance to eat into their fat budget!
Last edited by: ride2eat: Mar 15, 10 9:14
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Re: Bottom Bracket. CHRIS KING v. HAWK [SveninderSonne] [ In reply to ]
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Sven,

Thank you for your post, its rare these days to communicate with the founder/developer of ANY product. I appreciate your time posting and your enthusiasm for your product. Here is my background as some people may think this was some sort of 'set up' to get HAWK products visibility.

I live in the bay area and have done a few sprint triathlons and this year and plan on doing another sprint an olympic and possibly a half ironman later in the year. My first Sprint was done on my Gary Fisher Mountain Bike (yes, i put aero bars on it and loved every minute). I purchased a Trek Madone 5.2 after that and have been riding it for the past year during which time I wanted to learn as much as I could about the bike, its parts, and function. I realized that I would like to 'build' up my own tri bike so I purchased a 2008 P3 Frame on close out a few weeks back. Here's how I came across HAWK.

My coach, Rachel Casanta, of Hypercat Racing in the bay area is tied to Hypercat Bike Works. here is their web site to check out. http://hypercatcycling.wordpress.com/

You can see their coaching and bike reviews on yelp here:

http://www.yelp.com/...rcat-racing-richmond

Phil Casanta, the owner of Hypercat Bike Works, recommends HAWK bottom brackets and I believe their other products as well. That's when I posted the forum Hawk v Chris King question to slowtwitch.

I'm going with the HAWK Bottom Bracket. I like the fact that its a small company that there are quite a few top athletes using their product. Sven's enthusiasm is also a big +. Phil Casanta has been building bikes for 30+ years and I respect his opinion and he recommends HAWK. He stands behind his product just as Sven (not that Chris King doesn't, but he doesn't live down the road from me either :)

Thanks again, I'll post to this forum after instal and give everyone my thoughts!

Brian
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Re: Bottom Bracket. CHRIS KING v. HAWK [btcusack] [ In reply to ]
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I have the Chris King on my 29er, I love it, I mean, its just like the chris king headsets, you never even know they are there because they work so smoothly and reliably. I have no knowledge of the hawk BB but if you are looking for a nice BB, the CK is nice. 2 things about the CK, it is made to last a long time, like their headsets, I have blow apart ritchey and cane creek headsets, never a Chris King. I have also gotten Shimano BBs to seize up or geet really rough. when that happens, you just throw it away. A chris king BB or headset is made to last a long time, that beign said, you can re-build the BB, or at least re-lube it which is nice, but you have to get a special tool for it which costs about 30 bucks, no big deal really.

I have never re-lubed mine after about 1000 miles of dusty, mudy, wet, corrosive mtn bike riding and it is as smooth as the day I got it. I know a local racer who kills it at every race he goes to and he actually replaces the lube in it for racing with some super light lube, I dont know what exactly he puts in it but the way he talks about it, its hardly heavier than chain lube ( it may be for all I know) but he swears by this practice. I am glad I picked up my CK bb, it works great, matches my headset color (lol) and I dont even notice its there.

dont think about this, just go buy a CHris King.
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Re: Bottom Bracket. CHRIS KING v. HAWK [btcusack] [ In reply to ]
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Just to weigh in since I was mentioned in the forum. I have been using the Hawk BB personally and installed a good number now on a variety of client bikes. I also sell Enduro Ceramic so have the ability to make a good comparison between the two. I have not used the Chris King BB, but being a Santa Barbara native I have used their headsets since 1980 and hubs since they came out. I would recommend all of them. The big difference is cost. At $109- for a Shimano/ FSA compatible BB upgrade the Hawk can not be beat. It delivers a performance upgrade that is immediately noticeable but for riders who don't have a ton of money to invest. I would never knock CK as they do make a truly awesome product, and I am happy to get one for a client, but if you can save some money and get the same performance results, then why wouldn't you?

I have found Sven, like others have said, to be an outstanding vendor and I like the fact that he provides a money back policy for dissatisfaction in his product. Not many companies will stand behind what they are doing that way anymore. Plus he is the company, if you call up, he is the one you will talk too.

One Correction - The website is www.hypercat.com, Hypercat Bike works is the bicycle fitting and services portion of our business. the address given is the associated blog for HBW, a new addition.

Retul Certified Master Fitter, FIST certified fitter, Owner of Hypercat Racing http://www.hypercat.com, and friend to the animals.
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Re: Bottom Bracket. CHRIS KING v. HAWK [SveninderSonne] [ In reply to ]
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I never said open mold products are bad. In fact, I said just the opposite. Last sentence I wrote, "This doesn't mean it's a bad BB by any means."

And it's not just the spelling mistake. It's the fact that there is nothing of actual substance on that page. It's just a lot of engineering jargon thrown together in an attempt to justify something, but without actually giving any background to support that claim. There are huge non sequiturs in your "logic." Proofreading and fact checking wouldn't kill you...

Same thing with your list of pro athletes - it's just designed to distract from actual substantive discussion of the products themselves. It's well known, for example, that Continental tires have some of the worst rolling resistance performance of any tires out there, especially their tubulars because they use butyl tubes. But the list of pros who win on Contis is extremely impressive. That does not, however, mean Contis are fast tires.

I'm really lost about what sort of feedback would you expect someone to give from using a BB? It didn't strip when I installed it? It still "feels" good? Not exactly quantitative feedback. People who give the sort of feedback you have quoted are simply giving anecdotes. There is value in that, but it's not particularly valuable to another customer, even if you think it has value to you. I suppose it does have "value," because it seems to be the only thing that actually lends credence to your products.

You demonstrate the superiority of your product using an unloaded spin test, which is a relatively poor marker of performance for a loaded scenario. In other words, spinning a crank by hand without a chain on doesn't correlate very well to what happens when you pedal a bike. The fact that you say that it does makes me very skeptical about everything else you say. There are just a lot of warning signs on your website that would keep me from ever buying your product.

Furthermore, you advertise the superiority of your grease by saying Boeing and Airbus use it. Use it where? The grease used on the joints and pistons on wing flaps has totally different requirements that what is used in a turbine, and is different because of that. And, since Boeing and Airbus don't actually make their own engines, saying they use it in "their" engines would also be misleading. But even beyond that, assuming you are talking about the most obvious spinning part of a plane - the turbine - the applications are totally different. In one case, we have a very hot environment where the main axle is spinning at tens of thousands of revolutions per minute. In other case, we have a relatively low-temp range bottom bracket with a heavy vertical load - and torque - moving at 10s of revolutions per minute. It's a totally different world. For reference, most airplane bearings have a grease fill percentage of less than 10%. Most bicycle BB bearings have a grease fill percentage greater than 90%. But you can avoid all that by just describing what you use. There are good greases. DuPont Krytox, which Zipp uses, is one of the best. Just say what you use. Saying that Boeing and Airbus use it is meaningless to me and to everyone else. But it's another case of dodging, just like when you piggyback later on Sapim's quality. Sapim makes good spokes. That doesn't mean every wheel made with Sapim spokes is a good wheel. It just means that the wheels have good spokes. But at least with the wheels you actually advertise the spokes. Do the same with the grease.

Many of the best bearings in the world are made other places than Japan. SKF - Sweden - and FAG - Germany - both come to mind. Good enough for plenty of F1 teams. So again, your statement that the best bearings should be made in Japan is totally misleading and false. The Japanese can make good bearings. They can also make cheap bearings. That's why there are ABEC ratings and ISO standards. An American made ABEC 7 bearing is made to tighter tolerances than a Japanese made ABEC 3 bearing. That's just a fact. And I think you'd be hard pressed to find a bearing in any reputable part that is not made to ISO standards.

At the end of the day, I don't need to use a product to point up some major warning signs that smack entirely of marketing hype. Chris King makes their own products in their own factory in the USA and have a long history of reliability, performance, and simple manufacturing excellence. Hawk Racing relies on a technology - Folmer Technology - that isn't even described in general terms on your website, yet which we are somehow to supposed to take - on faith - as being superior.

To me, what you advertise is no different than the ceramic hype of FSA's "Ceramic Revolution" which you try to cut down on your site. Ceramic isn't automatically better; on that point, we agree. It is just harder and *can* offer some advantages - like the ability to make more round balls that are also harder. If you want the fastest BB run no seals and lube with oil. Just make sure that you only do that on race day. But that's not a very good strategy for most people. So give some *real* substance about why what you make is in any way better. That's what you still haven't done.

If you really wanted to prove a point, you would have spent at least some of your rather lengthy post attempting to disprove some part - any part - of what I wrote. Come on here and explain what Folmer Technology is. Explain what grease you use. After you do that, then I might consider putting a set of "Folmer Technology" bearings in my bike. But until that point, no thanks.

"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp
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Re: Bottom Bracket. CHRIS KING v. HAWK [coachphil] [ In reply to ]
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I also sell Enduro Ceramic so have the ability to make a good comparison between the two.

Okay, so make a comparison. Provide some substantive information comparing Enduro's bearings to Hawk's bearings. But please, please, please don't talk about spinning a crankset without a chain on while the bike is a stand...

"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp
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Re: Bottom Bracket. CHRIS KING v. HAWK [coachphil] [ In reply to ]
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At $109- for a Shimano/ FSA compatible BB upgrade the Hawk can not be beat.


Sure, if you were comparing the Hawk bottom bracket to the FSA Ceramic Mega Exo bottom bracket but if I read marketing speal at the site correctly -
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Folmer Technology Bearings. Say goodbye to ceramic bearings in Cycling with this high-end product.

- then it does not sound to me like the Hawk bottom bracket uses ceramic bearings and therefore such comparisons would not be valid. In fact, since FSA's non-ceramic bottom bracket can be found for less than $50, seems to me that $109 is pretty pricey. Finally, Shimano/FSA compatible is also very misleading as I indicated before, while this may work for BB-8000 compatible cranks such as the Team Issue or SLK, the Hawk bottom bracket will most likely not work with FSA's K-Force or SL-K Light products which are designed to use the BB-8200 ceramic bottom bracket.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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