Which episode is it on the link provided?

Episode 44 Big Cottonwood Canyon Race recap

---

Instagram or twitter me softly @xatefrogg

I can't listen to the podscast right now, but what did your training look like in order to make such a big improvement in such a short amount of time? Did you keep up with your cycle/swim training as well?

I did Ironman Boulder in 2015 (4hr Marathon) then after that I realized i really needed to focus on my run game. I kept up with my biking and swimming but really started getting more miles in my legs. I followed Barry P's advice on here to just run at least 30 minutes a day for 6 days a week consistently. I started with that then gradually worked up to 40-45 min a day then 1 hr. After I got to the 1 hr mark (about 7-8 miles) I started working in some structured speed workouts at the track based off of the "Run Faster Run Less" Book and the Jack Daniels calculators. I worked on getting to a 20 minute 5k first. After that i started working in tempo runs again based off the two books recommended speeds. Then I incorporated the long run 1x a week. When I started hitting about 45-50 miles a week I started doing 2 runs a day twice a week (bike and swim were set aside during this). I eventually got up to 73 miles a week running 2 times a day 5 of those days for 3 weeks straight then did a 1.5 week taper. All in all the best advice is to just run 6 days a week for at least 30 minutes for several months.

---

Instagram or twitter me softly @xatefrogg

Did you run this BQ at the Big Cottonwood Marathon? If so, that looks like it has 5000 feet of consistent downhill running.

You should prepare for Boston by doing some uphill running.

Yes it was at Big Cottonwood. I felt like I cheated when I Qualified there and I address that on the podcast. Thanks for the advise. I live near a good canyon for some uphill work.

---

Instagram or twitter me softly @xatefrogg

Sorry. I read my post again, and I come across as a real dick. I was sitting in the back row of a plane next to a screaming baby at the time.

Funny thing is, I find downhills too painful and my BQ attempt will be at Dallas (and, if necessary, Woodlands).

---

The point is, ladies and gentleman, that speed, for lack of a better word, is good. Speed is right, Speed works. Speed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit.

Haha. No problem. I think everyone just assumes your a Dick if you’re on slowtwitch so you’re in good company.

---

Instagram or twitter me softly @xatefrogg

First, congrats and well done!

I didn't have chance to listen to podcast yet but interested. Wondered lately if I could make similar gains if focused 2 years on run only. What is your age, weight/height. What were your standalone 1/2 marathon times before boulder?

Good luck in Boston!

I’m 36 135 lbs 5’7”. My best half before Boulder I think was 1:45. My best half is now 1:21. Consistent running 6 days a week is where I saw the biggest gains. What’s your times right now? Listen to the podcast because I go into a lot more detail. Good luck!

---

Instagram or twitter me softly @xatefrogg

That is cool. I don't care if there was lots of downhill. Your legs probably felt like dead meat after.

---

They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot

Firstly congratulations, that's a lot of work and a lot of improvement, I'd love to BQ..


Last block I got up to around 30/60/90 ~36mpw but just beyond that point my hip started to complain a bit (I tore it slightly in March)

I'm hoping to get past that in an upcoming marathon build, did you find any points that you had to hold the millage at for a while before you could start bumping it by 10%?

All that downhill running is good for Boston as well though. At least I found the biggest challenge of Boston wasn't the hills *necessarily*. It was the 16 miles of mostly downhill running to start the race, then suddenly finding huge hills in the way that was the greatest challenge.

Injuries suck and they are so deflating so good luck with that. I'd take consistency and staying healthy over volume any day. I felt like once i got to about 50 mpw I needed to adjust and start utilizing two runs a day. I think the 1hr run was good for me which would give me about 8 miles and my body could recover enough from that to handle a 30 minute (3-4 mile) run at night. I stayed at 50-55 mpw for a few weeks then started increasing the 2 runs a day to add the 10%. I still made sure i hit the three main runs in the week (Speed, Tempo, Long).

Example of my week to hit BQ times:
Monday Speed-2 mile warmup, 1 mile at 6 min/mile, 2 miles in 12:20, 2x800 @ 2:50, 1 mile cooldown.
Monday night- 30 min easy at 8 min/mile
Tuesday morning- 8 miles easy @ 8 min/mile
Tuesday night- 30 min easy at 8-8:30 min mile
Wednesday- Tempo 6 miles total 4 miles at 6:45 min/mile
Wednesday night- 35 easy 8 min mile
Thursday- Same as Tuesday
Friday- Same as Tuesday
Saturday-Long run 11-16 miles at 8 min mile
Sunday- Always a rest day from everything.
This would get me up to 65-70 MPW. Adjusted so that i followed the 10% rule strictly.

---

Instagram or twitter me softly @xatefrogg

I enjoyed the podcast. Interesting to see your running consistency really paying off. That really fits with what I found works and from many others on here. Easy consistent volume wins every time.
Good luck training for Boston.

Will

Congratulations! I was considering Big Cottonwood but the steepness of the downhill scared me away. I am considering Mt. Charleston in April which looks at least a little less steep. I have a flat marathon in 16 days and am still debating what workouts to do during the remainder of this taper.

As for Boston, the hills are NOTHING compared to what you ran. The uphill stuff is not that bad either and I am terrible at uphill. The single biggest factor for me has been how crowded the course is. It is mentally and physically draining running around thousands of people that start in front of you that are somehow jogging leisurely (based on 2013 and 2014 races). The course is really narrow early on. I am hoping to go back and do it casually myself, but maybe move back a few corrals.

Congratulations. Looking forward to listening to the podcast.

If you move back in the corrals you'll be with slower people and not necessarily fewer people. The numbers are by BQ time, so the person with one number lower than your ran just a little bit faster than you to get to Boston. Those folks running leisurely may have been pacing themselves. The year I held myself back for the first 13 miles I ran faster overall. The other years I ran as I felt at the beginning and had a very painful finish.

To the OP: great work ! I'd advise running both uphill and downhill for training. The first 6 miles of downhill will kill your quads if you haven't been outside and running downhill. The uphills at the end aren't bad if you're mentally ready for them. The vibe is great, don't get sucked into running too fast at first.

---

Brian
“Eat and Drink, spin the legs and you’re going to effin push (today).” A Howe

thanks for posting this thread. great info!!

---

80/20 Endurance Ambassador

Very interesting. I am actually at more or less that pace 8:45 on a long run... PB in Half 1:45, 10k 45 mins, sub 4 marathon, sub 6 HIM, 13hr full IM, so very very average to low end of the spectrum (at least on ST :)).

Question... did you have to deal with any injury and if so how did you adjust your regimen? (maybe that's covered in the podcast but haven't listened to it).

Oh and BTW, don't think downhill is cheating... you must have completely shattered your quads in your BQ race.

I'm guessing the majority of your running was at a z2 pace? Did pace changes come naturally at the same HR or did you have to push the pace / HR from time to time to get the HR to come back down?

This was supposed to be my year to do what you're doing. Started off with a bang - PR's for 5k, 10k, and 13.1 all early in the year. Then I took the summer off. Now I'm struggling to get a marathon PR in before year end (and really regretting taking the summer off).

I did have an Achilles issue. I do talk about it in the podcast in some more detail. About 7 weeks prior to the race is when i finally decided to take a solid week off running. I strictly biked and swam during that time. I also went to the chiropractor and used a TENS electro stim unit nightly along with some harsh "scraping" of the Achilles. After it healed up I had about 5-6 weeks to ramp up quickly. I already had a good base and a lot of big weeks so I did 45,60,70,72,70 and a one week hard taper with only 15 miles the week of the race. It worked for me and I'll likely use it in the future. I did several downhill and uphill runs in preparation for the race so that helped my quads and I wore Hoka Cliftons which I think helped a lot too.

---

Instagram or twitter me softly @xatefrogg

I actually lost my HR monitor for a few months and I think it helped. I did a lot of 8-830 min mile runs that felt comfortable. If I ran 10 times during the week all but 2-3 of those runs (tempo and speed) were at that 8-830 pace. The 3 things that helped me improve my pace were:
1) Consistency over 12 months.
2) Big mile weeks (65+)
3) Hitting the 3 main runs during the week (Tempo, Speed, Long)

---

Instagram or twitter me softly @xatefrogg