I like riding my tri bike with roadies. It usually goes like this.

I blow by a pack @ ~ 28
They catch up and suck wheel
We finally hit a stop (light or sign) and they say "Damn! Nice run, but why's your cadance so high?" I say "I like it that way." they say "Slow it down and push a bigger gear and you'll be faster."
A couple more times of doing this and I decide to suck wheel for a while and notice that we are only doing 23. So I pass and pick the speed up again.

Guess who resorts to sucking wheel again?

Guess what they told me about my cadence at the next stop? They still think my cadence is too fast :p Guess who ends up getting dropped?

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"your horse is too high" - tigerchik

Oh and my attitude was to always get a road bike and then tri bike but recently that has changed. A lot of people that train for triathlons are loaners (prefer training alone) and I can see why they would go straight to a tri bike.

My personal, optimum cycle progression goes something like this:
Tricycle
BigWheel
BMX
Mountain Bike
Road Bike
Tri Bike

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"your horse is too high" - tigerchik

Are you the same "Alan" that reposted my original post to TNO and then posted over there that you agreed with me 85%.

Just curious.

You must be riding with some slow roadies(or catching them on an easy day).

Do you always come across them on an interval day? You can't tell me you're cruising 28 on an everyday basis.


Or are you Craig Walton in disguise? :)

No I'm the "Allan" spelled correctly with 2 L's (just kidding all you 1 L guys out there).

I've been posting on this forum for a long time and the newbies thread got me to look over at the Trinewbie site and start my little rant.

Where I live there aren't more than 3 or 4 people that I can go for a ride with and most of the roadies I've seen around here ride by themselves too ...... maybe they should trade their bikes for something most aero and tri-like :)

Intervals or not they should be able to maintain the speed if they are going to lecture.

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"your horse is too high" - tigerchik

Hid,

BigWheels are out. The Green Machine rules.

Hinds57

Green Machines ruled! Dual stick baby!

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"your horse is too high" - tigerchik

From a roadie perspective, i like to warm up, it takes me a solid 10miles to warm up, and an additional 5-10 miles of tempo changes to get fully loose and warm. The few guys on tribikes that have ridden on some of the group rides that i do on a regular basis tend to go hard kind of early, and honestly, they really can't handle there bikes worth shit, so everyone just sorta lets them go becuse no one wants to be behind them. Either that, or if the ride is somewhat technical, a lot of the good roadies will go hard as hell from the get go, in order to get rid of the people on tri bikes.

It really depends on the quality of the roadies in the group. Few ametuer triathletes are going to be able to handle the tempo changes of a group of experienced cat1-3 cyclist.

Triathlon and Road Racing are two different sports, with two completely different objectives.

Well, I won't argue with you. If you only do tris and only ever ride solo you can develop skills adequate for that. And it is true that triathletes don't need the same level of skill as do road racers.

My point is still that the jump from a $200. mountain bike to a full blown steep angle bike with aero bars is quite large. Many newbie triathletes might be better served going the road bike route, at least as a transition. Tri bikes are not as versatile as road bikes and don't handle as well.

I was 43 miles into a 77 mile ride and these guys followed me for plenty of distance (which is typical). Anyway, I don't claim to be some great cyclist, but I do find the crap that people talk funny.

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"your horse is too high" - tigerchik

Oh don't get me wrong, I'm all for a road bike and experiencing as much of (the possitive) culture as possible. But I can see the other side as well.

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"your horse is too high" - tigerchik

I agree here, you must have found a slow group. Most guys I ride hard with are/were CAT II or III, if a dude "blows" by them at 28mph it is usually a sneak attack. I consider myself a decent rider, I can ride for an hour at 26-27mph on a friendly course. However, when my CAT II friends decide to teach me a lesson, or screw with me, . . . well, they can make me their bitch. Maybe if I rode my tri bike I'd fare better with them . . . probably not though, they would even be harder on me.

I do ride with a different group that does have a hard time hanging on a 23-25mph, however, these guys while roadies, are not hardcore "racing" roadies, big difference. This is also the group that the few triathletes ride with for the most part. I equate the bike handling skills of this slower group to a rough equivalent of "normal" triathlete handling skills, both a level below an accomplished "racing" roadie. Therefore, I wouldn't generalize about "roadies" based on your experience with the club ride . . .

"No I'm the "Allan" spelled correctly with 2 L's "

Allan, what a surprise - I've just figured out who you are. School teacher, lives near Trenton/Bellevlle, and I must ad, one of the fastest IM AG triathletes in the country.

I know you but don't know you. More correct to say I know of you.

You're in a class well above me in triathlon. Nice to know who I'm talking to.

Let me respectfully disagree...as a triathlete you want to train and compete and above all to improve in your sport.
Improving handling skills implies faster bike splits with no need to improve fitness. Say you race a course like IM Lake Placid, there is a lot of time that can be made by being good technically.
Same if you want to race say Nice Triathlon in France.
It's basically free speed...you go faster in the corner, forward momentum etc...
You don't NEED to be as technical as TdF riders, but if you could, it would be great, so one aim should be to improve your bike handling skills in this direction (unless you only race IM Florida every year and nothing else).

However, I agree that you do not need to ride in a group to develop this skills, you can learn them by yourself (although I believe it will take longer) but if you want to go faster you should aim at improving handling skills beyond "corner safely etc...".

It is very similar to saying I only swim freestyle because I only swim freestyle in tri, when for many people swimming four strokes will improve their feel for the water etc and therefore will make them faster.

just my .02c

I had the bike handling I'm a triathlete theory as well. I could bunnyhop, take bottles out of cages behind the seat, descend on my tri bike at 50mph w/out fear etc. Then I started bike racing. After 3 months I was able to do things that before made me add soft, wet, smelly padding to my cycling shorts. People bumping into my handlebars at 30mph didn't faze me, tires rubbing or being rubbed no big deal, people turning into me at 25 mph b/c they forgot to turn right or left etc.

It translated into a few different things that helped my multisport cycling.

1.Being able to corner about 2-5mph faster on every corner after 1 season of bike racing. It's much easier by yourself than w/20-30 guys breathing down your neck. At the 2002 Du worlds I passed 1-3 people in every downhill corner b/c they sat up and/or hit the brakes going into the corners.

2. Learning how to draft more efficiently. This comes in handy when passing people in tris. I'll now ride within less than 1 foot of their back tire before passing and know where to place myself so they cannot swing into the draft zone as I pass.

3. Just being more comfortable on my bike. Having the confidence that I can dodge merging or weaving triathletes w/out braking or changing my pedalling . If I had to put a number figure on it I'd say a .25-.3mph increase on my avg speed in duathlons w/ no extra effort on my part.

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Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

making my point dude, better though as you do it with an example and numbers that go with it...
I consider my handling skills very avg. for a cat1, and still am amazed to see the handling skills of many triathletes.
now it's not a critic, just something I noticed, if you
want to improve your times, bike handling basically gives you FREE SPEED

I think that riding with the roadies will help your speed and handling but my rule of thumb is NEVER ride in the aero bars even if you can handle them as the others get a bit wigged out. Additionally be prepared to be mocked for having them by the better riders and be dropped when the CAT 1s are done with you!

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Banger

indeed...I also think it's preferable to ride with roadies to improve handling skills...as a cat1 I am not going to disagree with this.
Also agree that riding on tri bars (even if you are at the front) is asking for trouble, in a group ride, you want to have the brakes as close as possible...

Where did all the cat 1 crap come from? Isn't it a bit silly to compare newbies to cat 1?

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"your horse is too high" - tigerchik

How about my favorite combo. A $200 mt. bike WITH aero bars. I have seen more than one of these weaving enough to warrant a breathalizer.

what crap? I am just saying that newbies could learn from cat 1. didn't say anything else...
in our area, some newbie triathletes ride with cat 1 and everyone mixes well, newbies learn how to handle bike, they are not looked upon by cat 1 and cat 1 enjoy talking with people from other background...

A tri bike is no question faster for pulls than a road bike. I am a roadie turned triathlete and I make a point to match my bike to the bikes of the guys I am training with to get an equivalent workout. More often I tend to down-grade, eg ride a road bike with guys on tri bikes or a cyclocross bike with guys on road bikes. I have pounded roadies on my tri bike that I can barely hang with when we are both on road bikes, but it's a false sense of accomplishment. If I'm going headhunting I'd rather do it on a slower bike.

I think that is the real reason roadies don't like guys on tri bikes--- In the time trial position you can pull all day at 26MPH where most roadies are anaerobic at that pace. They get pissed as that pace is fast enough to be uncomforatble but not fast enough to get into the training ranges they need.

For our team road rides, we usually warm up for 10 miles at about 22 MPH, then start the ride. During the ride our pace varies but when we start putting the hammer down we are over 30MPH for extended periods. We might do five miles at 30+, then regroup and pick up stragglers, then wind it up a few more times. The road rides have highly variable paces and are geared towards building lactate tolerance. The goal is to ride either relaxed or really fast and not waste much time in the middle (AKA Zone 3 and even Zone 4).

I'm not convinced that roadie training fits into most triathlete training programs as it is too intense and lactate tolerance is not very important for tris. Most triathletes will be better off sticking to the training ranges in their programs. I ride road rides in the Spring because I love them and because I road race in the Spring. When I get serious about tris in the mid-summer I usually drop the roadie rides.

Finally, real roadies know about the value of a high cadence. Those roadies you were with must have been relative beginners.

My point is not about the need to develop bike handling skills (I know that mine could be better) but the opinion that everyone should buy a road bike as their first if they are new to the sport. I race triathlon and train on the bike that I race. I may be able to improve my handling skills by getting a road bike, but unless I'm doing a lot of riding with the types of people that can help me improve I don't see that there is any benefit. As it is, I'll keep riding the bike that I race on and work on my skills riding it (it is a little-wheeled, steep angled thing!).