The beginnertriathlete.com logs are great. They do everything you ask, EXCEPT the WKO+ files--does upload from Garmin. I believe that some form of logging for power data is coming in the not-too-distant future, but not sure what form it will take.

Yeah, the WKO+ files issue is a biggie for me, unfortunately.

I can't offer a suggestion for a replacement but I want to thank you for posting the question. I, too, have been struggling to adjust to the new flash interface on TP without much success. I'm really hoping that TP will allow us to continue using the old interface but I doubt that will happen.

I'll be watching this thread for sure.

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"I eased off a bit. It never feels like you are easing off. More like you just stake out your place in the pain cave and sit there rather than venturing deeper inside..." -- Rappstar

Yeah, I've never seen so many complaints/concerns about the "new and improved" version. And the TP people seem to think everything is hunky-dory if you read their forum.

What about the ST training log? Anybody use that? How does that compare to TP?

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"I learned... that it is foolish to scold. I have enough trouble overcoming my own limitations without fretting over the fact that God has not seen fit to distribute evenly the gift of intelligence." -Dale Carnegie

It's not even close. You can do some (very) rudimentary planning but it doesn't support uploading of any type of data files. While the ST logs are good for tracking the various challenges that are thrown down in the forums, it's not ready for primetime use yet.

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"I eased off a bit. It never feels like you are easing off. More like you just stake out your place in the pain cave and sit there rather than venturing deeper inside..." -- Rappstar

I too am looking to move when the classic version of trainingpeaks goes dark. I have a nice library of workouts with html markup in them with links to videos of exercises and drills or explanations etc; I also use html markup inthe workout description pretty extensively to do the same thing even if I coe up with it on the fly these are all going to be useless since they decided to take html markup away. This is in addition to them having removed the time in hr zones from the .csv file download. I had built a substantial time saver with excel that used these as inputs, those data were taken away one day and I was told they were never coming back.

I don't think you will find anything that will handle the wko+ files as smoothly as trainingpeaks does however I have tried lots of things out extensively and here's what I have found. In most cases I have used each one for a week or two with one or a couple of athletes to see how it goes

addaero.com - flash interface that actually does allow html markup. The new trainingpeaks is suspiciously similar to the addaero interface. Does no workout log analysis at all, so the athlete can attach a file and you can download it into your program to analyze. So athlete uploads his log of the workout with powertap file attached and you would download it into wko+ or phil skiba's raceday I guess would work just as well. If you do a lot of the same workouts often and would like the drag and drop abilities then you might like it. As I see it the only thing this has over the new trainingpeaks is the html markup, and I am not sure how many people use that.

workoutlog.com - no html markup, but they do have a coach tips page that accepts html in it. Fastest workout entry I have seen, you open a view of a week and see seven text boxes to fill out. You can fill out all seven boxes, hit save and you are done. Of course you can also add workouts if you need more than one workout per day, this is as opposed to many many clicks at some other sites. If you do a lot of hand entering workouts you might like this. They have introduced garmin file analysis last time i checked but all it has was summary data for the whole workout and each lap of the workout. No graphs of hr and speed data and no maps either if that matters to you.

2peak.com - html allowed, advanced planning system built in that takes a bunch of inputs and creates the workout plan. The planning is great if you happen to like the types of schedule it creates, if you don't like those types of schedules then you'll find it kinda useless and probably won't see the use in it. The log analysis is Ok, not very many types of reports to choose from and you can't just go and select a section of the workout to analyze but it will classify intervals for you and shade them in as such. It will show intervals based on hr, pace, or power for a given file. Nice folks and easy to work with, I get the feeling the system is relatively untested in north america, lots of glitches with file uploads so far. They are based in switzerland, 6 hours ahead so that might affect you if you need customer service.

buckeyeoutdoors.com - very rudimentary system run as a side project so while they seem eager, there are lots of features not implemented.

I know lots of other folks just email the files back and forth if they use wko+ or raceday, so I guess that's another option for you.

Nothing is ever going to be perfect, I think they all have trade offs in them.

Great info, Kevin. Thanks.

I might have to just go without WKO files on whatever online training log I decide on. Just can't believe TP would make such a bad decision that is clearly driving people away.

Training Peaks is the recommended log from NYRR for the NYC marathon-

I am not a fan at all- I am looking for something that is easier to use- maybe post updates on facebook so friends can see my workouts/progress etc...

We're listening folks...

I don't want to draw out this thread into a slugfest, but, I'd love to do a personal webinar for anyone (or a group of Slowtwitcher's) to learn what are the key issues that have become so hard with the new interface. As you guys know, everyone has their own thoughts as to what a critical feature is.

How about it? Anyone that wants to join, I'd love to have you show me what exactly the issues are.. honestly, I want to learn and work on the UI and feature-set.

Or, if you want to post specifics in this thread, I'll address every one of them.

Let me know. Thanks.

-Gear
TrainingPeaks.com co-founder.

gear at-sign trainingpeaks dot com

Biggest thing I can recommend, which I have already proposed on your forums (though no one seems to want to listen -- everything's just fine!!!):

PLEASE drop the flash format. Leave the traditional html version in place.
A webinar isn't the answer for this issue, IMO.

That's all.

Gear,

I've been invited at least twice to "discuss my concerns" with your staff and have done so, the answer has always been that the html markup and the .csv info is not coming back, and those functions will not be available in any other way or workaround. I've been a client for a long time and would like to remain one but this is not something I can do without at this point. I did eventually find a workaround for the .csv info but it involves using the search and filter functions that will be going away pretty soon here.

Other specifics:
1. Have someone go through the workout entering and logging process and start counting clicks, if it takes more clicks in the new way - not an improvement. One click seems like nothing; but an extra click per function spread over 10 or so athletes and 10 or so workouts per athlete per week and it gets to be a good chunk of time.
2. Tabs on the workout description page go the wrog way, instead of tabbing through the hours, minutes, seconds, it tabes from hours to miles to I don't know what else. So instead of keyboard entry each cell needs a click.
3. Most of the reporting functions in the classic version are not represented in the new version. Search and filter, graphing training time per week, graphing training time per day, mileage per week, mileage per day at last check were not available.

We decided to use Flash for two key reasons:

1) Drag and drop interactivity for scheduling workouts from your library, and drag and drop for move/copy/paste on the Calendar or Spreadsheet. People love drag and drop workout planning, and we did a lot more with drag and drop on the Calendar. For example, using shift and control keys to select every Tuesday, and move those workouts to Wednesday.

2) The interactivity of flash allows us to do highly interactive graphing and charting online, example: http://tpks.ws/c2uB

There were, as always, lots of tradeoffs in the decision.

It's unlikely we'll leave Flash, but we will continue to work on the UI as always. One good thing is that in our rearchitecture of the system, we can replace the UI without touching the underlying "business logic".. so who knows, maybe Silverlight or something else is in the future.

HTML Markup: I'd be happy to discuss that one with you, it's quite complicated. We will support links (you can enter HTML now and an address like http://www.xyz.com will be clickable in the client's nightly email), but if you start putting a lot of markup in the description, the client often sees the markup in other places like on a mobile device, which ends up looking pretty rough. Anyway, happy to chat with you about it.

As for the .csv info.. I'm just not sure what you mean. Sorry, email me off list or we can talk to discuss it.

Reports/Charts are being ported over every month: Training time per week, time per day, mileage per day, mileage per week is now available, and has been added to the Dashboard and improved considerably. Love to show you.

Clicks to add a workout 3. Add workout, enter type and title click Ok, enter distance, duration, comments etc and click Save. Tab order is now followed on the pop-up quick view.

You might take a look at the log at http://www.RunningAhead.com. Very clean, very versitle, and no Flash. It is very multi-sport friendly and uploads garmin files. I don't know about WKO+. I know a lot of people moved there when the Cool Running logs got switched over to Active.

I've been using it for a few years and am very happy.

Victor

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FS Series

I was going to ask the same thing. The new version is awful and I will drop it after my IM next month. Part of it is Flash (which doesn't work with my iPhone) and second I never liked ASP .NET pages. I really liked the simplicity and ease of use of the classic version. I used to tell all my friends about it and how great it is, not anymore. I started looking a bit at others, but I figure I won't need anything to seriously for a couple months after IM. I just wanted to add my 2 cents, hoping the TP people will listen to customers. Probably not, unless people start bailing and they start losing money.

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Craig
No pacing, just racing.

This is exactly the feedback they need to hear. For some reason, the message hasn't gotten through yet. I bet it will as annual subscriptions begin to expire, though.

The "flash interactivity" offered on the beta version is already covered in WKO+ and serves only to bog down TP. Is the plan to turn WKO+ into an overpriced calculator of normalized power?

I find the attitude that things are all fine with the new version very unfortunate. It's mystifying, in all honesty. TP was a GREAT product that I was VERY happy with. My attempts to give feedback have repeatedly been met with patronizing responses such as "everyone hates adjusting to the new things," "we're all users of TP, as well, and we love it!" or "people eventually see the light." You're dismissing your loyal users as embittered critics! We've tried the new interface for weeks, and it just doesn't work as well for us. Period. Who's seen the light, exactly, other than TP employees? I haven't met a single person who finds the new version tolerable. I'm not exaggerating. Not a single person. All hate the change.

Here's a thread to show some of what I'm talking about: http://www.trainingpeaks.com/...d=47767&posts=25

It will be a sad day when the html version is taken offline. I really will miss what was a great training log.

On another note, the responses so far of the TP team don't exactly instill confidence that WKO+ will continue to be my power analysis software of choice. Whoever/whatever is guiding the development team sure has a strange idea of "improvement."

Curious, what don't you like about ASP .NET pages? I'm not talking about trainingpeaks.com but just asp.net in general. If they are designed properly with the end-user in mind they truly are indiscernible from html or php.

-Tim

Gear- Here is my concern for the new version- when will you have all the functionality ready to go, specifically the ATP and Race schedule? Will you be able to scale templates like you could in the classic version?

Also, there is no way to tell when a client's schedule runs out without loading each client's schedule. Lots of clicks. The classic version lists the last workout date under the client name.

I realize you don't want to support two versions but I think you are making a big mistake forcing people into the new version. Give them a choice.

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Doug

Gear- Another issue- when you have a long workout description it does not display the entire workout and comments unless you "click" on the workout. You then have to "click" again to close it. What a pain.

It would be great if you could simply run your cursor over the workout and have the entire description "explode" so you don't have to click, click ,click....

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Doug

For the TP group:

Go back to Classic Mode - or at least provide an option to make that the default. It is, hands down, a much better visual display of the information on a daily and to-date basis. Also, much easier to use.

Sure, the new version is sexier, but I get the feeling that it has been developed without significant research in to what the users need and/or want.

And, as a final question: what specifically was it that prompted the development effort? Why the change?