IMO I wouldn't worry about tracking a TSS for swim. ymmv

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Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

Do you not consider it useful as a way of tracking overall workload, even if the actual TSS for swimming is fairly meaningless? (Interested question, not criticism)

The Garmin Swim is better for drills. It has a drill mode that is basically just a timer and you enter your distance.

FWIW

I've owned the SWIM and now I have the 920XT. For Drill work there was a mode you went into and then when completed that interval it asked for you to manually enter distance. I know that's unavailable on the 910XT so if that would help you and you've got the funds.

On the 920XT drill mode is available by hitting up until you see "Drill Mode". Could you sell 910 and upgrade to 920? Probably a better use of the money if you can get a good return on the 910XT rather than getting a SWIM.

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"Train so you have no regrets @ the finish line"

Yeah, I never worried too much in the past about getting my swim TSS as accurate as possible. My coach is worried about fatigue level as it tends to be a problem. Typical age grouper doing too much lol. My coach and I want to tack things as best we can.

That sounds good. I would totally love to get a 920 but don't see that happening right now. I figure I can get a used garmin swim at a reasonable price.

Set your swim threshold pace by doing a 1000M (or yard) TT in the pool and then enter total time (swimming and rest intervals) in the pool and distance.

BTW you should set pace zones as well for the run and use that over HR. When comparing rTSS to hrTSS the first is preferred.

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Rodney
TrainingPeaks | Altra Running | RAD Roller
http://www.goinglong.ca

When I have no pace clock available, I time each swim on my own el cheapo Timex, and just guesstimate my rest, going when my breathing has calmed down some but not to normal, typically 10-15 sec on 100s, around 20 sec for 200s, etc. You can even do the old "1001, 1002, 1003..." in your head if you want to approx the seconds, but I think just going on feel works pretty well. In this manner, you only record your actual swim time for each swim and you have your total time at the end of the workout, with no need to subtract those annoying rest periods.

I've been using the old el cheapo Timex method for so long that those big garmins just look like clunky over-kill to me. There's a guy at my pool who uses one during kick sets and he has to hit the beeper at the end of every single length since apparently the garmin can't sense that you've changed direction when you use the k-board. That regular beeping, or chirping or whatever you call it becomes somewhat annoying over time, but oh well...:)

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

swimming isn't going to destroy one like running will. No pounding, very little eccentric contractions.

I know what they are swimming, when I design their training weeks, I keep that in mind.

But for tracking overall workload no. Another reason is there isn't imo any great tracking device for swimming.

I also forbid them from looking like a dork in the pool. No self respecting person should show up in a pool and swim with a watch on their arm unless they 1. don't know how long the pool is and 2. there is no pace clock. Then the watch should be removed and hung on the block to mimic a pace clock or set on the deck so you can use it as a pace clock. It's also not polite to the people you may be sharing a lane with. No one wants to get whacked by your watch.

If they don't want to learn how to use the pace clock, well, then we have a chat, which is 1 chat away from The Chat...which never ends well for them.

To summarize: swimming with a watch is lame, learning and using the pace clock is baller. Do you want to be lame or a baller? (Choose baller)

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Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

I use the pace clock during the sessions, and the watch 'results' to see how I'm going (eg what sort of times I am holding for 20x100).

For what your coach needs, distance and session RPE is good enough and likely better than sTSS.

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Endurance coach | Physiotherapist (primary care) | Bikefitter | Swede

I know I'll just get shouted down for this idea, but.....
I have just taken the idea that most of my reasonably steady rides are approx a TSS of 60-70 / ph, and I figure that my swimming is less taxing or stressful than riding, so I've just been guesstimating on a swim TSS of 50 ph of steady swimming or 60 ph if working hard.
Super accurate? Not likely!
Consistent? Absolutely!
So a week with 3 hrs of swimming will add 150-180TSS
Which is accurate enough for my coach checking my Training Peaks .

Btw, get a Timex, or the pool to instal a pace clock...

You should look at the thread comparing the 920 and V800. Having the idea that you'll whack somebody's hand is "no big deal"

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IG: idking90

I feel the same about the watch wearers... but there's a lot of them out there.

I just guesstimate it now - like someone else mentioned you recover from hard swims much quicker than biking or especially running. That being said if the dork factor matters little to you and you insist on wearing a watch, you could take it one step further and wear a tickr x hr strap in the pool. Apparently it works well in the water and records directly to the strap for download later. I plan on trying mine out later - open-water only where it can be concealed beneath a wetsuit or swimskin - wouldn't be caught dead wearing it in the pool! I agree with most here - pool all you need is a pace clock, but thought I'd throw the tickr option out there.

Ericmulk & Rodney (TrainingPeaks) have already stated this in another fashion, but you need not track rest time at the wall to calculate sTSS. If you look into the calculation for sTSS that TrainingPeaks uses, it is based upon intensity factor (IF) of your effort [that is to say average pace of that swim session vs. your test pace] and duration of the swimming activity. To be clear, that is only your time actively swimming, not time simply being wet. If you know those relatively easy to track pieces of information (total distance, active swim duration, test pace for 1000 yards/meters) you can compute sTSS on your own or simply let TrainingPeaks do that for you.

How fatigued does any swimming really leave you? And how much recovery does it require? Keep in mind, as a quote from Dr. Coggan goes, "it's called Training STRESS Score for a reason, not Training Peformance Score". I'm guilty of gaming my TSS/CTL from time to time expecting that to lead me to magical land of "Being Faster".

Gilly

To get 'accurate' TSS without manual work you need to wear the watch and let it upload everything. You will look like a douche though as desert dude mentioned.

You could use the guide Joe Friel put together and estimate: http://www.trainingbible.com/...g/2009/03/wko-q.html


I tracked TSS religiously for a few months last year and then stopped. I found it didn't really reflect my ability to recover and train because that was also impacted by sleep/nutrition/work stress/daily life. Just chat to your coach regularly on the phone and give them real feedback on how you're feeling as that'll be much more valuable.

I like pacing to my tempo trainer. Keeps me honest. Held 32 for 20x50 @ 60 on Sunday ... 100 easy and 4x75 @2.00 same pace hitting 48-49 for 75.

Pacing is simple. Try not to puke.

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http://en.wikipedia.org/...eoesophageal_fistula
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_palsy
2020 National Masters Champion - M40-44 - 400m IM
Canadian Record Holder 35-39M & 40-44M - 200 m Butterfly (LCM)

The ST typical "real" vs "not real" attitude. So cute to see grown adults acting like.

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The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design.

Just like a track workout you have to record the rest intervals.

10x400M at threshold with 20sec rest is a much different workout than 10x400M at threshold with 5min rest.

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Rodney
TrainingPeaks | Altra Running | RAD Roller
http://www.goinglong.ca

I have absolutely zero experience with swimming TSS and I'm not a big fan of adding scores across sports (assuming you're a triathlete, not strictly a swimmer), but:

1) "a few months" isn't long enough to provide much insight, as it takes that long for CTL to even mostly "catch up" to what you're actually doing, and

2) even if you seeded your Performance Manager with a good estimate of your initial CTL, so as to avoid the issue above, the mere fact that you recognized that stressors outside of training were responsible for limiting your ability to recover and train illustrates, at least theoretically, the utility of the approach. That is, absent such data you might very have chosen to blame your training program instead.

I gave up looking like a baller a long time ago - I will be wearing the Fenix 3 in order to emphasize my laziness in automatically uploading my workouts.

I've spent quite a bit of time in the pool this year and haven't come close to hitting, or being hit with a watch - is this really a concern?

Also, my snark-meter is a little off - are you saying that you would end a coaching relationship if someone wanted to wear their watch in the pool?

twomarks

Agreed. I guess I'm a lame baller. Scholarship swimmer through college, and use a watch. Uploads to track progress is mentally and physically keys to continue progress. I have had 1 person in particular hit my watch during masters swims.....I think SHE eventually stopped a lazy arm recovery, so I guess it can be a good thing.

At risk of diving far too deep into the weeds, here is a link to an article from TrainingPeaks (written by Matt Fitzgerald and Stephen McGregor) describing their approach to calculating sTSS:
Link: http://home.trainingpeaks.com/...g-swimming-tss-score

Skipping to the end of the article, the authors mention the following which is relevant to this thread (my emphasis is added):

"There are some important limitations of our do-it-yourself method of swim TSS calculation to bear in mind. First of all, although this simplistic approach can be effective, it should be noted that by simply tracking distance and time swum, the effects of rest periods on the sustainable efforts are neglected, whereas in cycling and running they are not, because power meters and speed and distance devices capture coasting and non-movement as part of the workout.

Similarly, our rough-and-ready method of calculating swim TSS lacks the exponential weighting of higher intensities that is done automatically with pace and power in the digital calculation of normalized cycling power and normalized graded pace, and which is an important means of capturing the exponentially greater stress imposed by higher intensities. That being said, the cubed weighting of the IF counterbalances this limitation to a certain extent.

These calculations ignore the differences between different swim strokes and the rather substantial differences in efficiency that result from good or poor technique. Finally, the impact of flip turns and push-offs is essentially neglected using this approach.

Still, it’s a lot better than nothing, which is what triathletes interested in logging their swim workouts on WKO+ have had up to this point!"