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Best Bottom Bracket Ever
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I've read several forum posts comparing a wide variety of expensive and well made bottom brackets for cranksets with 24mm spindles. The best bottom bracket is most likely the existing one you have. Unless you're sponsored by someone giving you premium bottom brackets for free, or you have absolutely no mechanical ability, don't waste your money on a premium brand bottom bracket. My little LLC stays wide open improving bearings for bottom brackets and hubs. I'm so busy with the work, I'll never reach everyone so they can get the most potential out of their existing equipment. First off, nearly all bottom brackets for 24mm spindles use a bearing with a 25mm inner diameter. The manufacturers do this so they can anchor the plastic shield over the bearings by using the plastic sleeve that slides inside the bottom bracket bearing. You'll never reach your maximum potential with your spindle and bearing separated by the plastic sleeve that holds the dust cap in place. To make your own high performance bottom bracket, follow these steps and amaze yourself and friends.

Step one- remove you're cranks and pry out the plastic dust cap off of each side of your bottom bracket.

Step two- remove bottom bracket, remove the spindle tube and reinstall just the bottom bracket cups with the bearings still in them.

Step three- use a blind hole bearing puller, if you have one, to remove the 25mm bearings. If you don't have a blind hole puller, use a long screwdriver to drive each bearing out from the opposite side. Don't worry about damaging the bearings because they belong in the trash can.

Step four- buy two bearings that have a 24mm ID, a 37mm OD and a 7mm width. I have my best results with the inexpensive Enduro MR 2437 LLB C3. This is an ABEC 3 stainless steel bearing with blue seals.

Step five- remove the seals from both bearings using a dental type instrument from a $3 pack of 5 available at hobby lobby. Next, wipe any residual blue grease from the interior of the seals. Be careful so you don't bend them. You can lay them out, interior side up, and clean them with a Q Tip.

Step six- using your choice of solvents remove all the remaining grease from inside the bearing. Isopropyl alcohol works well, if you have a container that seals and allows you to shake it vigorously. If you're in a big hurry, spray them with aerosol brake cleaner. Collect the brake cleaner as you spray them in a sealable container. Once they are visibly clean, seal them in the container with the collected brake cleaner and shake them for 3-5 minutes.

Step seven- apply a light coating of Tungsten Disulfide (WS2) to the interior of the bearing using a small model kit paint brush. If you need an inexpensive source for WS2 powder you can order "Derby Dust" online. The 2 ounce container is inexpensive and will last you the rest of your life. This may seem like a hassle, but after you witness the end result, you'll be doing this to every bearing on your bike.

Step eight- once all the balls and races are coated with WS2, replace the previously cleaned seals after tapping out any excess dry film lubricant (WS2). While holding the bearing spin the interior race and exterior race both directions, frequently rotating the bearing, with a dremel tool on the lowest setting. At this point you are "running in" the treated bearing. If the bearing locks up due to excess WS2, add 1-2 drops of really light oil. I prefer Royal Purple ATF but mineral oil works fine. After a few minutes the bearing will break loose on it's own and you can run it in using a dremel. I usually go 5 minutes in each direction on the interior and exterior race. Once this step is complete, when you flick the bearing with your finger, expect 20-30 revolutions.

Step nine- press your new bearings back into your cups. I use a field press, which is essentially a piece of allthread with two handles and dies. I have used a dead blow plastic hammer or even the end of a 2x4 with a normal hammer.

Step ten- using a coping saw, dremel or sharp knife, cut the portion of the bottom bracket dust seal off that used to slide into the old 25mm bearings. Re-install all the pieces of your bottom bracket and coat the edges of the cup with a very light layer of RTV or silicon to hold the bottom bracket dust seals in place.

Step eleven- reinstall your cranks and see what if feels like to actually have your spindle in contact with your bearings. I know you've seen the "spin test" videos on the internet. Do your own and smile as you watch your cranks spin until you physically stop them.

The whole lesson is: No matter how much you pay or how highly touted a particular bearing may be, no bearing ever performs to it's full potential when it's separated from the spindle by 1/2 a mm of junk plastic bushing. Also, no bearing can reach it's full potential when it's packed full of highly viscous grease. Google WS2 and you'll instantly realize that dry film lubricants, especially WS2, are far superior to any liquid lubricant or ceramic. You've made a bottom bracket that performs better than ANYTHING you can buy. As long as the cups thread in properly and the bearing cups are true, go as cheap as possible. I prefer the ROTOR BB1. It's ROTOR's bottom of the line bottom bracket but I've yet to encounter one that's not machined perfectly. I believe they only come in black. If you absolutely want it to match Shimano cranks, spray the bearing cups with Easy Off oven cleaner. After a quick scrub, you'll be left with raw aluminum cups. They look nice raw but you can always polish them right up with your dremel and some Mother's paste. After you've completed this project, go ahead and do your hub and driver bearings. In my opinion it's well worth the little bit of money to get Enduro ABEC 3 stainless bearings. I've tried just about every bearing out there and they seem to perform the best. Sometimes it's hard to make yourself pull expensive ceramics or high ABEC rated Swiss bearings. If you need the motivation, spin your cranks again. It's worth it! For maintenance, since WS2 is resistant to every solvent I tried, pop the seals off the bearings once a year or two and simply douche the interior of each bearing, in place if you can reach it, with a syringe full of 90+% Isopropyl Alcohol. Then ride to warm them up. After a few good rides, your balls and races are the prettiest deep cobalt blue. Once you've seen this, you've got a happy bearing that will give you years of great service and typically continue to only get better. How do you know when to replace them? After several years, depending on what type of riding you do, you may feel a slight "tick" when a side load is applied to the cranks or hubs. This lets you know to go ahead and order your replacement bearings, hunt down your WS2, buy your can of brake cleaner and warm up your dremel. You should get a minimum of 4-5 years. If you do happen to submerge your bearings all you need to do is break out the hair dryer. Simply pull the seals and rotate the bearing as you blow hot air on them.
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Re: Best Bottom Bracket Ever [Lleeoo3] [ In reply to ]
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Sorry. I forgot the forum formalities.
I hope this post helps those of you that are spinning your cranks on a plastic bushing. Happy Cycling!

WARRCO High Performance Bearings
Thorsby, Alabama
In Reply To:
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Re: Best Bottom Bracket Ever [Lleeoo3] [ In reply to ]
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Youtube video on how to DIY...?
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Re: Best Bottom Bracket Ever [Lleeoo3] [ In reply to ]
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I mounted a 30 mm inner diameter rotor pressfit for my rotor 3d+ spindle (the spindle directly touches the inner bearing diameter).

I mounted the cups with loctite 641 (I had to press real hard), and I'm NOT going to disassemble soon. Without chain, the cranks only turned half a circumference after a hard push. But I read in all kind of Threads, that that is normal because of the grease (sadly but true).

Now I've got some questions to you:

1. Will the grease-drag decrease with mileage?
2. How many Watts do you reckon do I loose compared with a bearing as tuned in your way? (I heard many assumptions from 0-5 Watts)
3. Do you think my bearing will become better if I would clean them now with isopropyl alcohol? (Of course I haven't got WS2 in my bearings, so I guess it would be a bad idea?)
5. Is a bearing inner diameter of 24 mm better than 30 mm?

Thanks for your interesting post and maybe you find a minute to answer my questions.
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Re: Best Bottom Bracket Ever [McSteel] [ In reply to ]
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Honestly, I've always simply managed the bearings for various race teams. I've never made a video because the riders I've dealt with simply wanted it handled. I guess now that I've shared the process with a forum a video is in order. I will do a bottom bracket and a hub video soon.
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Re: Best Bottom Bracket Ever [longtrousers] [ In reply to ]
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longtrousers wrote:
I mounted a 30 mm inner diameter rotor pressfit for my rotor 3d+ spindle (the spindle directly touches the inner bearing diameter).

I mounted the cups with loctite 641 (I had to press real hard), and I'm NOT going to disassemble soon. Without chain, the cranks only turned half a circumference after a hard push. But I read in all kind of Threads, that that is normal because of the grease (sadly but true).

Now I've got some questions to you:

1. Will the grease-drag decrease with mileage?
2. How many Watts do you reckon do I loose compared with a bearing as tuned in your way? (I heard many assumptions from 0-5 Watts)
3. Do you think my bearing will become better if I would clean them now with isopropyl alcohol? (Of course I haven't got WS2 in my bearings, so I guess it would be a bad idea?)
5. Is a bearing inner diameter of 24 mm better than 30 mm?

Thanks for your interesting post and maybe you find a minute to answer my questions.
In Reply To:


To me it sounds like you have much bigger problem. In theory a press fit 30 bottom bracket should be more efficient than a 24mm outboard euro bottom bracket. Some people avoid them because of the inevitable squeak that come in the box with them. If you're having to press hard to get a full rotation of your cranks, you've got serious bottom bracket issues. The bearing should always make it easier to rotate your cranks. Assuming the new bearings spun relatively freely in your hands new, and are now making it harder to pedal, you've got a severe issue. My guess is that you've either accidentally crushed a bearing during installation so the balls and cage cannot move freely inside the bearing cartridge or your bearings are misaligned. It could be as simple as one bearing being canted. If it's takes substantial force to revolve a crankset, you are costing yourself Watts. Not a reasonable amount either. I would totally revisit my earlier work. It also could be a bad bearing. I certainly would never ride a bike that doesn't have free spinning cranks. Whatever force your putting into the crank to make it move is potentially damaging something with that same amount of force. If you ever encounter a situation that makes it hard to move the pedals freely, you can't wait until the next time to fix it. It sounds like you need a bike shop. There's no bearing that I've ever seen that makes it hard to spin the cranks. You've either got a bad bearing, a misalignment or a bearing that may have been damaged during installation. My guess is that it's one of those 3.
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Re: Best Bottom Bracket Ever [Lleeoo3] [ In reply to ]
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Re: Best Bottom Bracket Ever [Lleeoo3] [ In reply to ]
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Not all 24mm Bottom Brackets have the plastic insert.

The FSA BB-8681 does not have the plastic insert you describe. It is for a crank that uses the wavy washer to set its preload.
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Re: Best Bottom Bracket Ever [jaretj] [ In reply to ]
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You are correct. Of the 50 I've probably worked with, a company called BOX makes a bottom bracket with at true 24mm bearing and recently Crupi released the Crupi Precise Bottom Bracket with a 24mm bearing. If you searce, you can find a bottom bracket with the proper size bearing. I was simply wanting to let people know how to take a relatively cheap bottom bracket and make something that will outperform a Chris King or Hawk Racing premium bottom bracket. I've pulled apart too many nice bottom brackets that have been upgraded to high dollar ceramics that were still running the plastic spacer.
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Re: Best Bottom Bracket Ever [Lleeoo3] [ In reply to ]
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Thank you so much!!!

My friends and family are all amazed by my new bottom bracket. I couldn't have done it without you.

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
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Re: Best Bottom Bracket Ever [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
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I think I will get some quantitative data on the process. All of the bearings I maintain are for riders that are generating about 25 watts for under a minute on the BMX track. I've just recently started adding a mountain and road line of bearings.
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Re: Best Bottom Bracket Ever [Lleeoo3] [ In reply to ]
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If you take an FSA BB-6000, replace the bearings and cut the outer seal as you described, a person would find it difficult to set the preload on a crank that relied on that spacer. Some of the FSA Gossamer cranks relied on that inner piece to hold the outer seal centered on the BB.

Perhaps you have found a work around for that issue?

jaretj
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Re: Best Bottom Bracket Ever [BLeP] [ In reply to ]
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You're very welcome. I just hate to see people pay premium prices and still get something that doesn't work properly. It's too easy to make bearings that outperform anything you can buy. BTW, "Derby Dust" has changed their formulation. I noticed that after my first post. The only current cost effective source I could find for WS2 is IMPEX in Canada. Their $50 sample bag is enough lab grade WS2 for and entire race teams lifetime supply. I've ordered from them before and they deliver very quickly.
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Re: Best Bottom Bracket Ever [Lleeoo3] [ In reply to ]
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1. Perhaps you can give us a technical explanation of why the plastic sleeve prevents a bearing from "reaching its full potential", and what you mean by that.
2. I guess although this is somewhat of an ad, its entertaining enough that people are not complaining about forum policy on this.
3. What's that business about BMX racers and 25 watts for under a minute?
4. Let me get this straight.....you don't have any numbers to support your claims, you clearly don't get the comment that jackmott made about the fractions of a watt you may be reducing, and you admit that the bearing starts "clicking" after a while anyhow.
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Re: Best Bottom Bracket Ever [jaretj] [ In reply to ]
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I'm not familiar with the particular setup. I've always found plenty of room on the edges of the cup to cement the dust cap in with RTV, silicon, or rubber cement. If I were you, I'd contact FSA and let them know that you're not wanting you spindle to ride on a piece of plastic instead of the bearing. I'm sure those are expensive cranks and frankly, I'd expect FSA to develop an alternative preload system to eliminate the plastic bushing. That piece of plastic kills your crank's performance I've just never understood who decided it was okay to jam a piece of plastic between your spindle and bearing. I've only recently started running bearings for mountain and road bikes. That plastic spacer was the first thing I eliminated. That's nuts! Profile racing has had crank spindles that ride directly on the proper bearing since the 70's.
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Re: Best Bottom Bracket Ever [Lleeoo3] [ In reply to ]
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I've only had a few cranks like that and I think they are getting away from that BB design and most people are moving to BB30 anyway.

Thanks for your insight.

jretj
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Re: Best Bottom Bracket Ever [Lleeoo3] [ In reply to ]
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Lleeoo3 wrote:
To me it sounds like you have much bigger problem. In theory a press fit 30 bottom bracket should be more efficient than a 24mm outboard euro bottom bracket. Some people avoid them because of the inevitable squeak that come in the box with them. If you're having to press hard to get a full rotation of your cranks, you've got serious bottom bracket issues. The bearing should always make it easier to rotate your cranks. Assuming the new bearings spun relatively freely in your hands new, and are now making it harder to pedal, you've got a severe issue. My guess is that you've either accidentally crushed a bearing during installation so the balls and cage cannot move freely inside the bearing cartridge or your bearings are misaligned. It could be as simple as one bearing being canted. If it's takes substantial force to revolve a crankset, you are costing yourself Watts. Not a reasonable amount either. I would totally revisit my earlier work. It also could be a bad bearing. I certainly would never ride a bike that doesn't have free spinning cranks. Whatever force your putting into the crank to make it move is potentially damaging something with that same amount of force. If you ever encounter a situation that makes it hard to move the pedals freely, you can't wait until the next time to fix it. It sounds like you need a bike shop. There's no bearing that I've ever seen that makes it hard to spin the cranks. You've either got a bad bearing, a misalignment or a bearing that may have been damaged during installation. My guess is that it's one of those 3.

Thanks for your quick answer. Since installation I rode 2 hours on the bike.
I tried to spin the cranks now (without the chain), and see: after a push with the hand they make three whole circumferences now instead of a half circumference just after installation.
So there is already a huge improvement.
I hesitate to adopt the opinion, that there is something wrong.
There can't be a bearing canted by the way, because the rotor bearings are held in the cups such that
they can "cant" freely over some degrees, to avoid the misaligning problem.
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Re: Best Bottom Bracket Ever [goodboyr] [ In reply to ]
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This is in no way meant to be an add. I've found something that works and simply wanted to share the details. The plastic sleeve is simple. It's not as hard as metal to metal. Engineering 101. I'm not selling anything. I'm just letting you know what I've experience great success with. I improve hubs and bottom brackets for several National BMX teams and Pro's. A good BMX Pro hammers out about 25 watts off the gate, so I've never worried about a quantitative analysis on the bearing. We usually go straight off the 0-20mph time. Why are you so negative? I've never shared usefull information for free and been criticized. Honestly, this process isn't for people like you.
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Re: Best Bottom Bracket Ever [Lleeoo3] [ In reply to ]
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Lleeoo3 wrote:
A good BMX Pro hammers out about 25 watts off the gate
Are you sure about this number? I'm pretty sure I can apply 25w with just my big toe.
Last edited by: rijndael: Dec 11, 14 7:08
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Re: Best Bottom Bracket Ever [Lleeoo3] [ In reply to ]
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"Engineering 101"......not true.
"This process is not for people like me".....true.
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Re: Best Bottom Bracket Ever [Lleeoo3] [ In reply to ]
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Is this the original Derby Dust you were referring to?

http://www.amazon.com/...er-1oz/dp/B004YQVZ5A
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Re: Best Bottom Bracket Ever [Lleeoo3] [ In reply to ]
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This suggestion raises a few red flags for me (I'm actually having trouble figuring out if this post is serious or a joke).

If the bearings are turning blue, then they have overheated and will have lost the hardness they originally had when they were tempered. This will greatly shorten the life of the bearings by making the contact surfaces more susceptible to damage. Normally bearings would be replaced once they have overheated like this.

One of the functions grease provides in addition to lubrication is cooling. A dry type lubricant can't provide as much heat transfer and resultant cooling to the contact surfaces as grease can.

The bearing might spin very freely when cool, but I'd be curious how well it spins during a long ride when it has heated up. If you were counting fractions of a watt this might save a little bit for very short races, but once the bearings heat up, I would imagine the friction would be much higher then if they had grease lubrication.
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Re: Best Bottom Bracket Ever [Brad79] [ In reply to ]
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If you look up WS2, you'll see that it turns blue after coating metal. It has nothing to do with heat. WS2 has the lowest drag coefficent of any solid. Just google it and you'll immediately recognize the benefits of Dry Film Lubricants. It puts an amazingly had coating on the bearing surfaces and you need no other lube. If you look at some WS2 websites you'll see the bearings they treat. Dry Film Lubricants are the future. There's a lot of people on this forum that are so negative. I wouldn't have shared this, if it didn't work. Just ask Maris Strombergs, 2x BMX Gold Medalist. There's a huge advantage to a dry bearing.
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Re: Best Bottom Bracket Ever [Lleeoo3] [ In reply to ]
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Sounds interesting then, when I read your post before, I had taken your comment to mean that the bearing steel itself turned blue and that immediately made me very skeptical.

Do you have experience using this for bikes that are ridden for long steady rides vs BMX type riding?
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Re: Best Bottom Bracket Ever [rijndael] [ In reply to ]
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rijndael wrote:
Lleeoo3 wrote:
A good BMX Pro hammers out about 25 watts off the gate
Are you sure about this number? I'm pretty sure I can apply 25w with just my big toe.

He means 25W / kg.
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