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Best Bike Split and IMFL
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Anyone have good luck using BBS for IMFL? Worked great for Chattanooga, but I can't seem to get realistic numbers for FL.
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Re: Best Bike Split and IMFL [jellyfish] [ In reply to ]
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It's a fast course if that's what's throwing you off.
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Re: Best Bike Split and IMFL [Staz] [ In reply to ]
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I am thinking more than 15 minutes faster than Chatt. Maybe not?
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Re: Best Bike Split and IMFL [jellyfish] [ In reply to ]
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Looking into this for my wife. What is it about the numbers you're not liking?
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Re: Best Bike Split and IMFL [jellyfish] [ In reply to ]
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Not familiar with the course there but take a look at this http://www.runtri.com/...iathlon-bike_13.html.

Just based on my own experience and that of others I would trust BBS.
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Re: Best Bike Split and IMFL [jellyfish] [ In reply to ]
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jellyfish wrote:
I am thinking more than 15 minutes faster than Chatt. Maybe not?

height/weight?
what sort of winds are you inputting?



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Re: Best Bike Split and IMFL [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
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I didn't change the wind conditions, so whatever the default setting is. 68" & 155lbs
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Re: Best Bike Split and IMFL [jellyfish] [ In reply to ]
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I have done IMFL twice and my times and power with BBS was very close, I did Chatt and again the numbers were close. I biked Florida about 20min faster than Chatt with a few watts less.
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Re: Best Bike Split and IMFL [Rover24] [ In reply to ]
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20 minutes and a few less watts sounds better
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Re: Best Bike Split and IMFL [jellyfish] [ In reply to ]
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It's probably counting the numerous pelotons on the course.
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Re: Best Bike Split and IMFL [Rover24] [ In reply to ]
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Rover24 wrote:
I have done IMFL twice and my times and power with BBS was very close, I did Chatt and again the numbers were close. I biked Florida about 20min faster than Chatt with a few watts less.

Is that counting the extra 4 miles?

Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One
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Re: Best Bike Split and IMFL [Francois] [ In reply to ]
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No doubt about some in Chatt but nothing compared to FL, at least from my experience.
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Re: Best Bike Split and IMFL [GMAN19030] [ In reply to ]
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GMAN19030 wrote:
Rover24 wrote:
I have done IMFL twice and my times and power with BBS was very close, I did Chatt and again the numbers were close. I biked Florida about 20min faster than Chatt with a few watts less.


Is that counting the extra 4 miles?

The BBS model for chatt was 116, I did not account for that in overall time though. So comparing 112 to 112 Florida was about the same time on a few less watts for me.
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Re: Best Bike Split and IMFL [Rover24] [ In reply to ]
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Dang...forgot about the 4 extra miles. Guess that is my problem.
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Re: Best Bike Split and IMFL [jellyfish] [ In reply to ]
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Should be pretty close. I've biked the 112mi several times on a flat course and got very close times to BBS prediction and that is with training gear. I did an HIM 3 weeks ago and the BBS prediction was 3 seconds off my actual time so I feel pretty good about the accuracy of the model.

What is your goal IF / TSS for IMFL?


jellyfish wrote:
Anyone have good luck using BBS for IMFL? Worked great for Chattanooga, but I can't seem to get realistic numbers for FL.
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Re: Best Bike Split and IMFL [sp1ke] [ In reply to ]
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Fwiw, pro times at choo and imwi were about identical. My IMFL simulation is about 25 minutes faster... but on more watts. I held tss constant, so IMFL is damn close to zone 3 watts.


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Re: Best Bike Split and IMFL [motoguy128] [ In reply to ]
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motoguy128 wrote:
Fwiw, pro times at choo and imwi were about identical. My IMFL simulation is about 25 minutes faster... but on more watts. I held tss constant, so IMFL is damn close to zone 3 watts.

That is impressive, hadn't noticed that. I've done WI and CH and couldn't imagine going the same speed in WI as CH but I'm on the bigger side. The WI bike is way harder and the run is about the same. I expect FL will be faster than both but not a ton faster than CH. Based on my CH watts and time, BBS says I will go about 16 min faster in FL.
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Re: Best Bike Split and IMFL [Chris Martin] [ In reply to ]
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Chris Martin wrote:
motoguy128 wrote:
Fwiw, pro times at choo and imwi were about identical. My IMFL simulation is about 25 minutes faster... but on more watts. I held tss constant, so IMFL is damn close to zone 3 watts.


That is impressive, hadn't noticed that. I've done WI and CH and couldn't imagine going the same speed in WI as CH but I'm on the bigger side. The WI bike is way harder and the run is about the same. I expect FL will be faster than both but not a ton faster than CH. Based on my CH watts and time, BBS says I will go about 16 min faster in FL.

Choo is faster than IMWI, by quite a bit, but the extra 4 miles made up the difference. I get the impression based on some race reports that the wind might have been slightly favorable and the pros rode a tactical race and overall might have ridden slower than at IMWI... but I haven't seen a power file to compare. I know Matt Hansons report indicated he could have ridden a little harder, but it seemed pointless to break away from a group of 20 riders to bridge to the leader. He trusted he could lay down a sub 2:50 and run them down. He made it look easy.

All that being said.... when I take my 5:04 at IMWI, and I adjust my TSS down to reach the same AP I rode (Which shows how much energy you can waste to achieve the same time), then use that for IMFL... it comes up with 4:27 @ 0.79VI at the same TSS. I know that's crap because the top splits for 35-39 the last 2 years were 4:40-4:45. So either none of them take a chance and ride that aggressive (very possible). The really strong AG cyclists prefer hilly courses... or are at Kona most years (also very possible). Or. the wind tends to build during the ride and you get a stronger head wind on the return most years.

All that being said, I'm going to stick with 25-30 minutes faster depending on how you pace it. But I think my model in BBS could be a little off.

I plugged in IMCHOO and it's too fast. I probably need to go back and make some adjustments.... or I just need more data in there.


TrainingBible Coaching
http://www.trainingbible.com
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Re: Best Bike Split and IMFL [motoguy128] [ In reply to ]
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What would that be in terms of watts / kilo and what is the BBS "estimated" CdA for you?

I plan to ride .71 IF and 2.54 W/kg for a 5:07 split. If I adjust to your .79IF I get 4:56 and I'll probably walk the marathon. You must have tons of power or you're super aero or both :)



motoguy128 wrote:
Chris Martin wrote:
motoguy128 wrote:
Fwiw, pro times at choo and imwi were about identical. My IMFL simulation is about 25 minutes faster... but on more watts. I held tss constant, so IMFL is damn close to zone 3 watts.


That is impressive, hadn't noticed that. I've done WI and CH and couldn't imagine going the same speed in WI as CH but I'm on the bigger side. The WI bike is way harder and the run is about the same. I expect FL will be faster than both but not a ton faster than CH. Based on my CH watts and time, BBS says I will go about 16 min faster in FL.


Choo is faster than IMWI, by quite a bit, but the extra 4 miles made up the difference. I get the impression based on some race reports that the wind might have been slightly favorable and the pros rode a tactical race and overall might have ridden slower than at IMWI... but I haven't seen a power file to compare. I know Matt Hansons report indicated he could have ridden a little harder, but it seemed pointless to break away from a group of 20 riders to bridge to the leader. He trusted he could lay down a sub 2:50 and run them down. He made it look easy.

All that being said.... when I take my 5:04 at IMWI, and I adjust my TSS down to reach the same AP I rode (Which shows how much energy you can waste to achieve the same time), then use that for IMFL... it comes up with 4:27 @ 0.79VI at the same TSS. I know that's crap because the top splits for 35-39 the last 2 years were 4:40-4:45. So either none of them take a chance and ride that aggressive (very possible). The really strong AG cyclists prefer hilly courses... or are at Kona most years (also very possible). Or. the wind tends to build during the ride and you get a stronger head wind on the return most years.

All that being said, I'm going to stick with 25-30 minutes faster depending on how you pace it. But I think my model in BBS could be a little off.

I plugged in IMCHOO and it's too fast. I probably need to go back and make some adjustments.... or I just need more data in there.
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Re: Best Bike Split and IMFL [sp1ke] [ In reply to ]
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I'ts using 0.2408. My weight is 76.3kg for the model. Hoping to shed 2-3kg next season and gain some power. But we'll see. I seem to be middle of the road. Good power, but still 20-30 Watts below the guys I'm racing, but I seem to make up for it with aerodynamics.

Riding 0.79 would be a real leap of faith I think. Though I'm not sure it's any more risky that 0.75 at IMWI when I think about it.

But like i said, I think it's a little optimistic. I plugged in Kona and had similar VERY optimistic times. I think the wind is just beyond what it can model right now, but I know Ryan is working on it.

IMWI is hard because 1) it's a longer duration...no way around that. But 2) everyone makes it harder by riding too hard up all the hills. Its exactly what they say. You have like 100 opportunities to screw yourself on that course. I can;t recall passing someone that didn't look like they were riding too hard.


TrainingBible Coaching
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Re: Best Bike Split and IMFL [jellyfish] [ In reply to ]
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I used historical data from last year's race (pulling using BBS weather widget) and my pre-existing bike/cda setup (tested at wind tunnel). Yea, pretty fast. Not sure if I'd ride that fast or not, who knows.

http://www.bestbikesplit.com/public-race?r=2771
Last edited by: James Haycraft: Oct 2, 14 16:53
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Re: Best Bike Split and IMFL [James Haycraft] [ In reply to ]
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You really only riding 0.70if? You really that aero or skinny?


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Re: Best Bike Split and IMFL [motoguy128] [ In reply to ]
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I prefer running fast to biking hard. I've been to the tunnel quite a bit and .228 is a decent 0 deg # for me in my tri position with accessories. I've seen lower but the exigencies of a 112mi IM bike mean it's probably a more realistic number than the low ones. I guess I am skinny...am 5'10" 152lbs.
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Re: Best Bike Split and IMFL [jellyfish] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah I think Florida is just super fast. Wonder what course is faster Florida or Maryland. As soon as Kona is over it's back to working on new features.

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Re: Best Bike Split and IMFL [James Haycraft] [ In reply to ]
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James Haycraft wrote:
I used historical data from last year's race (pulling using BBS weather widget) and my pre-existing bike/cda setup (tested at wind tunnel). Yea, pretty fast. Not sure if I'd ride that fast or not, who knows.

http://www.bestbikesplit.com/public-race?r=2771

24+ mph on a TSS of 225 is unreal and you would have out-ridden some of the pros. CdA of .228 is really low.
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