Good to know the p3 is still fast where it matters ;)

So it's as fast as a bike that was released... was it 7 years ago?

Woohoo.

The design of the Titanflex predates the P3 by at least a decade. Woo hoo.

Oh... shows what I know.

So this is like taking two antique cars to the drag strip.

Woohoo.

The interesting thing is the Titan Flex was designed mostly for other reasons. I don't think it had any real WT or CFD development, yet it largely matches the P4 generation in this test.

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Styrrell

What would be really cool is to see TJ's Diamond or the last Pearson vs. the P5.

I only see grams of drag. Was CdA calculated? Or are those drag values normalized to 30mph? The reason I ask is because tunnels are very rarely at the specified air speed so absolute drag force can sometimes be misleading.
Cheers,
Jim (who once owned a Zipp 2001 and can't believe he sold it)

You're absolutely correct, Styrrell. TitanFlex was not designed for aerodynamic efficiency. The primary design objective was to isolate the rider from fatigue-inducing road vibrations. Lacking WT time or CFD tools, what you see is more the product of intuition born out of my childhood exposure to the work of my aerodynamicist father and personal mastery of the orignial "fly-by-wire" technology; i.e. controlling the behavior of a gas-powered model airplane as it traveled in a 100' circle.

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Tom Piszkin
UCSD Triathlon Coach
@TitanFlexBikes
(619)334-7222
(619)328-1870 FAX

Does the bike come with assorted danish butter cookies inside the frame?

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The Triathlon Squad

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This one took me a second, then I LOL'd!!!

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float , hammer , and jog

BS, I've never seen anyone riding a P3 run that much seatpost and corresponding stack

We had to set all the seatposts that high to match the Scott Plasma 2, which has a seatpost mast that has to be cut when fitting its owner. As a new bike, I didn't expect the FASTER folks to make it potentially unsalable. The stack height--although not so unreasonable--was also set to match the medium Scott Plama 2.

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Tom Piszkin
UCSD Triathlon Coach
@TitanFlexBikes
(619)334-7222
(619)328-1870 FAX

Sweet! Thanks for posting, Tom. That seatpost looks slick. But I bet your bike would have been even slipperier in the tunnel with different fork and brake choices:

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"100% of the people who confuse correlation and causation end up dying."

I went to the titanflex website and the fork option when building it is listed as "carbon" or upgrade to an ENVE 2.0. Does anyone make a good aero fork anymore that will work with these frames? The Reynolds would probably have been one of the best options but they aren't available anymore.

You're right, Allan (and MOP). There aren't any current production forks as aero as what Reynolds use to make. I suspect this is due in part to frame manufacturers taking ownership of this component as an integral part of their frame designs. All the big boys have done a fantastic job of blending the front end components--a la Specialized's Shiv and Trek's Speed Concept.

This wind tunnel test data confirms that despite an antiquated (1998) design utilizing non-integrated headsets and today's aftermarket forks, TitanFlex gives nothing away to the best-in-class aero tri bikes.

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Tom Piszkin
UCSD Triathlon Coach
@TitanFlexBikes
(619)334-7222
(619)328-1870 FAX

It looks like you've made some nice refinements since you made my bike. I like the new behind-the-stem cable entry and rear brake placement. Got any closeup photos of that rear brake setup?

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"100% of the people who confuse correlation and causation end up dying."

Yes, Kmyle, I'd like to see the Dimond, Pearson and P5 tested as well. I wanted to test the P5, but it was (and perhaps still is) not available. Even the P4 was not available to the FASTER Aero Research Center. They told me that the P3 was close enough based on Cervelo's and Trek's own testing. To quote Trek's March 2010 white paper on head-to-head tests at San Diego's Low Speed Wind Tunnel, "the P4's [drag] crossed above the P3 at yaw angles of about 13 degrees and greater. It is not certain if this agrees with Cervelo's data because they did not publish P4 data above 12.5 degrees of yaw."

All these bikes are significantly more aero than the common road bike. However, the frame drag differences within this elite class are--by comparison--relatively small.

One factor that is significant is the relative costs of these high-achieving aero steeds. The P4, P5, Shiv, and Speed Concept occupy the $5000+ realm, whereas the P3 and Scott Plasma 2 and TitanFlex AL-Ti can all be had for under $4000.

For all of these reason I was content to test against the P3 and Scott Plasma 2.

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Tom Piszkin
UCSD Triathlon Coach
@TitanFlexBikes
(619)334-7222
(619)328-1870 FAX

I lengthened the rear stays just enough to fit a TRP (Tektro) 925 caliper. This location still supports mounting any conventional caliper.
Routing the control cables into the frame just behind the headtube was inspired by the competition and not to difficult to accomplish.
Next up is smoothing the headtube/fork interface.

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Tom Piszkin
UCSD Triathlon Coach
@TitanFlexBikes
(619)334-7222
(619)328-1870 FAX

Matches the P4 generation?? Lol what You take out the 25 deg yaw numbers cause who cares about that, and make a normal position for the p3 not a giant seat tube and head tube and the p3 kills the Titan flex... Its no where near the p4.

My thoughts exactly. At typical yaw angles, the TF is ~5watts slower than a p3 and >15watts slower than a p5. These differences increase even more in the p5's non uci trim.

Interesting...

What is your source?

How were the bikes configured -- e.g. what brakes, seatpost, and fork on the TF?

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"100% of the people who confuse correlation and causation end up dying."

Do you really think butter cookie container shaped tubing is as optimal as the work shiv/trek/cervelo has done?

I would expect the downtube and chainstays on the TF to be less aero than those on the shiv/trek/cervelo. But, the TF gains some watts back due to its absence of seatstays and most of the seattube. The lack of seattube also allows a shaped disk to perform optimally. Finally, when talking about 5-15W differences, the component configuration (seatpost, brakes, fork) which is largely integrated in the other frame designs becomes critical to how the TF compares.

But, that's not really the point. You gave specific numbers. What are they based upon?

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"100% of the people who confuse correlation and causation end up dying."

I concede that the P3 suffers 37 grams (2.6%) less drag than the TitanFlex AL-ti in a dead-on head wind. The summary of the test data is based on the average drag over a +/- 25 degree range of yaw, not just at 25 degrees. Each 5 degree yaw drag value was given equal weight. If one's riding conditions favor a dominant wind angle, then by all means you can certainly fiddle with the numbers. Or maybe you have different bikes to race different courses (like you would select tires to match the road surface conditions). FASTER chose to NOT make any special assumptions and clearly concluded that on average, the TitanFlex AL-Ti is slightly slipperier than the P3 and Plasma 2. I'll also concede that the P4 and P5 are probably better than the P3 at 0 degrees yaw. But does this accurately model real-world conditions?

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Tom Piszkin
UCSD Triathlon Coach
@TitanFlexBikes
(619)334-7222
(619)328-1870 FAX