cwhyte, there's nothing you can do about the other competitors, just enjoy your race, the long way, the weaving all over the place way, the slow or the fast way...
well done to you and welcome to the sport... 2 tris now... pretty soon you'll be one of the old wo/men of the sport.
zero to hero in 13 months... give yourself a pat on the back.

I dont think anyone cares what your abilities including open water are like as long as you have a reasonable pool etiquette. At the same time, don't get angry for being swam over, etc... it's pretty much unavoidable. Just learn to deal with it.

Multi-loop bikes are much worse for safety concerns between the FOP and BOP although at least it's easier to see where people are to avoid a collision.

Thanks for the welcome and encouragement. I don't get angry at all if I'm swam over or elbowed or ran into, I just try to stick with my stroke. I assume that everybody is doing their best and those issues are somewhat unavoidable. I did take a wider track in my olympic (2nd tri) in an effort to avoid the swim pack, and that worked pretty well for me. My problem in my first tri was I got too wide and over corrected multiple times, resulting in somewhat of a zig zag. I'm not winning anything, just doing this for fitness and a challenge and trying to do my best.

Stick at it, oh and thanks for making me look good in the water when i'm not ;)

I suspect you're probably referring to me.....

Don't worry, you're cool... keep it up and have fun. I fully expect that different people have different abilities, it's all good as long as you don't deliberately go and "clear space" for yourself, as was the case for the other guy..

It ain't about ability, its about etiquette and general good manners.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

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2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

Just to echo what others are saying, you have nothing to apologize for or feel bad about. In OWS, all bets are off. Even a 1:30 swimmer can get off course & end up swimming diagonally. You can't control them & no one can control what you do. Just swim your race your way & know that if you are slower or if you decide to suddenly stop or start breaststroking it, you are going to likely have contact with someone.

In the pool is a different thing. Use common sense & basic pool etiquette & it's all good. If you are a 2:00 swimmer, and there are two lanes open, choose the one with people closer to your pace (even if that means choosing to share a lane with a 1:45 over a 1:20).

We all have been slow & we all had to get started somewhere. The more you do it, the better you get and the less things like other people's butthurt will bother you.

This. Just remember it when you get faster :)

For racers you will just be an obstacle to pass, if you move suddenly and get in front of them while they are trying to get through, they may get angry, but its mostly from the exitement of the race where every second counts. They are probably not really angry at you. Stick to it, you are doing good, except for the caring about whether other racers who are faster like you. If you want to get faster, check out my sig, it may help.

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Swim with swimmers, bike with cyclists, run with runners. Train with those who are hard to keep up with. Soon you will be hard to keep up with.

Ignore the haters, hang in there. Everyone new to open water swimming (which pretty much every triathlete at some point) has done what you did.

Good points is to remember:

- Faster swimmers need to be cognizant of slower swimmers, sight and adjust accordingly
- Slower swimmers need to be realistic that faster swimmers might swim over them or make their lives difficult (sorry)

Don't confuse 'slow' with 'bad'. Slow swimmers can actually be really great swimmers. Fast swimmers can be really bad swimmers. It's really about understanding that you are in the water with other people and behaving accordingly.

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Take a short break from ST and read my blog:
http://tri-banter.blogspot.com/

well said...

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

Perfectly stated Jason.

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The secret of a long life is you try not to shorten it.
-Nobody

I think most of the displeasure you may sense is really just frustration directed toward RDs and race formats. It's just frustrating when you're in the first or second quintile of swim times and your age group goes off almost last and, as a result, you have a couple hundred (or thousand at the bigger races) between you and t1. I don't begrudge the individual swimmers at all. Quite the opposite!

As an aside, I'm a fan of people self-estimating their swim times and being assigned waves accordingly though the downside is that, if you're competitive in you're age group but you're a very strong cyclist and runner, this may result in some wonky finishes.

Preface: I am a stronger but not great swimmer.

The other thread's argument stemmed not from the guy's lack of speed, but a lack a courtesy (breaststroke kick to clear space).

I respect BOP swimmers quite a bit, seeing as I was one of them about a year ago. I see the work they put in and I respect that.

I'd also like to request, though, that BOP swimmers not take for granted the work that the "fish" put in. I've been working hard in the past year and have gone from 1:30 to 1:20/100scy for 1000scy. Swimmers work HARD. And I think a lot of stagnant swimmers think speed was given and not earned.

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"Don't you have to go be stupid somewhere else?"..."Not until 4!"

Ideally the RD should structure the start so that faster swimmers are not swimming into slower swimmers but sometimes there is probably no way around it. It's not cool to swim over people but I think a lot of people assume that it is intentional, when it is not. Swimming over people is not the fastest way from point A to point B.

I think many new swimmers underestimate the force generated by a good swimmer and mis-characterize accidental contact as a punch or intentional dunking. I have seen threads about people retaliating which is probably unwarranted. Everyone just needs to keep their cool and keep swimming.

Good luck with your swimming! You should be able to see a lot of improvement, especially if you get some coaching and improve your technique.

Yes, while easier to see a collision, ten swim collisions is better than one bike collision :)

Completely off topic, last year at our local sprint, I was coming up behind some slower riders at a 180 turn around. They went to the far right, which I appreciated, but they also drifted towards the Mercedes SLS and Ferrari 458 that were parked there. Luckily they avoided them... :)

I agree

You have to learn to take the comments by many on here with a grain of salt. Many are type "A" personalities and while not always a bad thing they sometimes come off brash or pissy. Even when you just ask for a simple answer to a question you have you can plan on usually 2-3 pink answers and a couple more with how your product or technique is inferior to theirs yada yada yada or then the that's already been talked about look at this link to the three topics from 6 years ago. People will reply directly to my post all pissed off thinking I am pointing to them but realize there are 10's of thousands of members of this forum so you get a wide array of people and answers.

If you do your best not be a douchebag and try to have manners and follows the rules when swimming or any part of the race then F*** them if they want to talk trash to you. A bunch of paper pushers that sit in a chair surrounded by cubicle walls all day have a lot of frustration to let out sometimes and the only place they can do it is here in an anonymous environment that they get to hide behind. They think they are the shiznit when they get on these forums and say how annoying slow people are in races, well guess what, it is part of racing in triathlons. You want to race with fast people all the time go join ITU or Nascar or something if you are that much of a bad ass. For you cwhyte keep your head down (except when you are swimming) and find the good people at races and talk to them so you can see how many great people there are in this sport. I am a MOP guy mostly but swimming I can sneak up into FOP-MOP sometimes. My first race I was a way way way BOP swimmer so we all start somewhere, we all put our pants on one leg at a time. Remember if 3-4 years down the road you become a great swimmer to maybe see if you can help encourage someone at a race that is their first race or something!!

Good luck!!

Keep working at it. In my 2013 season my fastest race pace swim was 1:50/100 and I was on the AG (35-39) or overall podium in every sprint I raced - 6 races. I have picked it up a little but I still struggle going under 1:55/100 in the pool training. 2014 I got my sprint pace down to 1:40/100 (won that tri overall) and did a 1/2 IM at a 1:55/100 pace. Just keep putting the work in. Don't let any comment/actions by others discourage you. I always enjoy going "fishing" on the bike. (passing all the fast swimmers). I know overall I would be better if I could swim faster but I just don't enjoy swimming enough to put any more effort into it. Just be honest about your abilities and don't try to be a fish if you know you are not. for example - Don't push you way to the front/inside of a OWS start if you know you a MOP and back swimmer.

That's good advice, owen.

Cwhyte - In my first OWS practice a 60 yr old guy swam right over top of me. Really pissed me off - out of humiliation mostly. I was 43 at the time. That guy is now a friend and I want to catch him (he's world class for his age, FWIW). Problem was, I was in the fast pack. I should have been wide and let the fishes go on thier own. Didn't have a good understanding of the etiquette of swimming. I know better now. Same thing in a pool. Know where you belong for your ability in a group. Swimming with faster people usually makes you faster - just don't make their job any harder than it already is by having to wait for you

Last year I swam in an "open water" pool tri swim. Weird but true. 10 people go at a time every 20 seconds in a huge pool with ropes and buoys for lanes. Pretty cool concept. I was honest with my estimated time. Everyone else in my group apparently lied. After 150m (of 400m) I was swimming up on people constantly. There was no where to pass (10 wide in a 6 ft. lane). As awkward as it was, I had to swim over them, in a pool. Dudes were cursing at me but that's the way it goes. I hope next year those folks will be honest with their times.

I was a 2:00/100m guy 2 years ago too. I'm about 1:35-40 now. Lots of hard work but it's paying off.

As someone said above, remember how you feel now when you're one of the faster swimmers. The guy that swam over me pulled me aside later and gave me a lot of the advice I stated above. I'm a better swimmer and I think, a better fellow triathlete because of his help.

Strongly agree that self estimating times makes more sense than age group swim starts and would be good for most involved.

Jason, not sure if it was you and I'm not going back to that thread to check, and it goes beyond that thread. The point I will make about etiquette is that can be tough to judge. I like to think I have plenty of etiquette, but in my first tri it may not have been apparent to others if I was cutting across them unintentionally based on my lack of experience and skills.

Thanks. I actually started at a 2:15/ 100 yard pace a year ago and I'm at 2:00 now. I just signed up for an 8 session coaching session to try to get some basic improvements. I don't really want to sink a bunch of money in coaching given that my aspirations are somewhat lower than a lot of ST folks, but if I can make some basic improvements that would be great. My Olympic swim went better than I expected at around 30 minutes (with wetsuit) and I'm looking forward to my Half this May.

Actually, it doesn't really matter if I think you are exhibiting good manners. as you say, it isn't necessarily apparent whether it is being rude or lack of skill.

What matters is your own attitude. Only you can judge that. Yours seems to be pretty darned good. in practice, I attribute just about everything to a mistake by someone else. I don't assume that someone is swimming diagonally across the course intentionally. I don't assume that someone is actually trying to kick me in the nuts. I tend to be pretty relaxed about things, I just try to not be a dick. I hope that others also try to not be dicks.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly