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BSX insight LT test
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I was lucky enough to be on the demo list for this product and have had the opportunity to run it through 2 tests (on a test subject and myself). Both of these tests were done in the cycling mode of their multisport device. Both of these tests were done outside of a lab with only power going through the device (as opposed to both power and heart rate)

Pros:
-The interface of the app and the connection to the device is extremely fast and easy to use. Once downloading their app, it took roughly 5 minutes to answer the questions and sync your device to your power meter.
- Once everything is set up, it is as simple as following the instructions on screen. You will simply bump up your watts to the required number and hold for 3 minutes.. continue until you can not
- After the test, I was extremely thankful that I didn't have to put myself through a 20 min FTP test. Rather, Only the last 6 minutes seemed exhausting and that is much easier from a mental standpoint.
- Upon completion of the test I was given my LT for watts (roughly 30 seconds after finishing the test)

Cons:
- I'm fairly convinced that the training zones the device suggests are high and not accurate as of now. (ex: 300 FTP is showing up with a recovery zone from 0-254)
- Wouldn't seem to sync with heart rate monitor in both cases. Perhaps just the device I was given?
- After the test is completed, all I can see through the app is just the LT watt and zones. I would like to see the actual progression of LT and data
- Without a computrainer, I had to keep my power steady on each step of the test or else the test will fail and you'll have to call for the results (I was lucky enough to hold steady power and not have to call)

Going forward:
- I will be taking this device into the lab hopefully in the near future to try on a treadmill and compare it with an actual blood test. This will be interesting. I'm sure there is so much more out there to learn with this device

Overall thoughts:
- For anyone that wants to know for certain what their LT is on the bike or run, this looks to be a great option. I found it mentally easier to push myself through a graded exercise test as opposed to a traditional FTP. There are still many questions I have and how to practically fit these in with training (oxygenation levels, training with the device? Only a testing device?) but overall I can see the value in having one rather than relying 100% on a FTP test. Overall this device allows for standardization of a cycling/running test that would prove extremely useful for athletes over the long haul.

There is still plenty to understand and test with this device, but as of right now I'm impressed with the ease of use and results.

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COROS Sports Science

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Re: BSX insight LT test [ddalzell] [ In reply to ]
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Hopefully I'll get to do the run test tomorrow. I tried to do the cycling test day before yesterday but I lacked an Ant+ dongle for my iPhone (have a computrainer though, lol).

Edit: one thing I'm very curious to try in conjunction with this device is hyperoxic training. As an aside, though, I find myself wondering if I bought a device to measure lactate or an algorithm that infers it with the pulse oximeter (I'm assuming that's what this is more or less) being just one more data point along with gender, height, weight, heart rate, and power (bike). Someone correct me if I'm wrong here.
Last edited by: GreenPlease: Feb 23, 15 15:05
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Re: BSX insight LT test [GreenPlease] [ In reply to ]
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no ant+ dongle required.. simple pair the device with your phone via bluetooth... the device picks up the power (one you connect power meter to device)

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COROS Sports Science

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Re: BSX insight LT test [ddalzell] [ In reply to ]
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I'm using the iOS app and a powertap rear (HED disc... usually use a dedicated rear with trainer tire but I can use the disc if needed). How would I connect my ant+ powertap to my iPhone?

Edit: or is there a way to connect my computrainer? I don't see how...
Last edited by: GreenPlease: Feb 23, 15 15:41
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Re: BSX insight LT test [GreenPlease] [ In reply to ]
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we simply connected the device to our androids (maybe that is the issue).. then connected the powertap/computrainer to the device via ant+.. and then the device would read it to the phone via bluetooth.

You need to hold the device close to the power meter in order to pick it up though

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COROS Sports Science

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Re: BSX insight LT test [ddalzell] [ In reply to ]
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Without an Ant+ dongle the iPhone has no way of communicating with anything on the Ant+ frequency. Just bluetooth.
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Re: BSX insight LT test [ddalzell] [ In reply to ]
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I was a test subject as well. 2 run and 1 bike. Picked up my Insight the first week and performed my run LT. I used the iphone app for this. Paired quickly with Insight
and Garmin heart rate. As mentioned for the bike, the run puts you thru numerous 3min stages. The last 3 or so was difficult for me 6:44, 6:22 & 6:03.

There is an update coming as my initial results were only in pace zones with 7 zones. I was told you can change to 5 zones. With the new update in the future,
it'll show your training zones in hear rate as well not just pace.

Hope this helps some of you.

glenn
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Re: BSX insight LT test [GreenPlease] [ In reply to ]
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Here is the link to that topic in the FAQ page. Hope it helps clear it up a little. If you are having trouble connecting it to your RU please give us a shout!

https://support.bsxinsight.com/hc/en-us/articles/203703939-Connecting-BSXinsight-with-your-devices
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Re: BSX insight LT test [ddalzell] [ In reply to ]
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I'd like to see a bunch of comparisons of real LT tests to their results for a cycling LT test. From everything I'm reading, the calf muscle is not a good muscle to use o read muscle oxygenation levels for cycling.
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Re: BSX insight LT test [mcmetal] [ In reply to ]
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I've been wondering about this myself. Depending on your bike fit, the amount of work the calves are doing can vary quite a bit - a poor bike fit can overwork the calves, which fatigue more easily than the larger muscle groups of the upper leg. I would think that would skew the results, one way or the other.

Then again, perhaps that is something that can be used to measure the quality of the bike fit... Hmmm...

Travis Rassat
Vector Cycle Works
Noblesville, IN
BikeFit Instructor | FMS | F.I.S.T. | IBFI
Toughman Triathlon Series Ambassador
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Re: BSX insight LT test [mcmetal] [ In reply to ]
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mcmetal wrote:
From everything I'm reading, the calf muscle is not a good muscle to use o read muscle oxygenation levels for cycling.

https://www.facebook.com/...ype=1&permPage=1
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Re: BSX insight LT test [mcmetal] [ In reply to ]
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mcmetal wrote:
I'd like to see a bunch of comparisons of real LT tests to their results for a cycling LT test. From everything I'm reading, the calf muscle is not a good muscle to use o read muscle oxygenation levels for cycling.

I don't like to make assumptions but I think you are referring to a blood LT when you say "real" and you mean BSXinsight Cycling test when you say "cycling LT test"

We have performed around 800 tests to date of simultaneous Blood LT and BSXinsight device testing. Unfortunately that data is private and a part of our internal R & D.

We are proud of our 97% accuracy in predicting your LT based on the results from our 800 tests. While the gastroc may be debated as to whether it is the best for cycling or not, our focus was to find a location that was highly accurate with a high rate of repeatability for both cycling and running. In our 800 tests we found that area to be ideal because it is fired in both cycling and running.

I hope that helped a little bit with your understanding and appreciate the comments and feedback!
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Re: BSX insight LT test [ddalzell] [ In reply to ]
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So has anyone done any more tests? Have you looked into how the steps are spaced? For me the steps jump around, eg

running speed stage differences, in km/hr
0.32
0.49
0.47
0.51
0.48
0.62
0.83
0.77
0.67
0.80

or running pace stage differences, in seconds
11
16
14
14
12
14
17
14
11
12

How can you get an accurate measure if you are speeding up inconsistently?
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Re: BSX insight LT test [ddalzell] [ In reply to ]
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Reactivating an old thread. I have subjected myself to 20+ blood lactate ramp over the past several years. This was done the traditional way using a Computrainer or Treadmill. I have both a Computrainer and a Treadmill in my home dungeon and am quite intrigued by the convenience and apparent value of the BSX Insight. What I am struggling with are the specific details on how to use the Computrainer and Treadmill with the BSX Insight. Neither my Computrainer or Treadmill are Ant+. Can I not just increase the wattage on the Computrainer or speed on the Treadmill at predetermined amounts and intervals while the BSX Insight tracks lactate levels?
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Re: BSX insight LT test [Scott_B] [ In reply to ]
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I had a look through the video tutorials on the BSX Insight website. It looks like if I want to do a cycling test with my CT, I would need to use my race bike which has a Quarq Elsa. I have never used my race bike on the CT, but I would be willing to do so once every 6-8 weeks. The BSX Insight will set up the testing protocol and provide target wattages for each stage of the test. Given that the BSX Insight would be linked to the Quarq and not the CT, I would want the Quarq wattage to match as closely as possible the target wattage. I would then adjust the CT wattage in Erg mode to get me to the appropriate target wattage as determined by the Quarq. Does this sound correct?

Hopefully the Quarq and CT are not significantly different, but if I keep track of what wattage setting I use on the CT for each stage, I would in effect end up with two sets of training zones - one for the Quarq and one for the CT.
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Re: BSX insight LT test [Scott_B] [ In reply to ]
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Scott_B wrote:
I would want the Quarq wattage to match as closely as possible the target wattage. I would then adjust the CT wattage in Erg mode to get me to the appropriate target wattage as determined by the Quarq. Does this sound correct?

Hopefully the Quarq and CT are not significantly different, but if I keep track of what wattage setting I use on the CT for each stage, I would in effect end up with two sets of training zones - one for the Quarq and one for the CT.

That is exactly what you will need to do. Set up your display so that you see 3sec and 10sec avg power from the Quarq. Then for each stage adjust the CT power so that you get your 3sec and 10sec power to be at the proper level for the current step.
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Re: BSX insight LT test [parasitepro] [ In reply to ]
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It would be excellent if the Insight application could control a Kickr or other smart trainers for the test ;)


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Yeah, it's a great bike but the engine needs work.
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Re: BSX insight LT test [parasitepro] [ In reply to ]
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Parasitepro--

Surely releasing the data would be a good thing from a marketing perspective. At the moment there seems to be a lot of discussion around whether the BSX is accurate. In the absence of data, most (myself included), just assume it is not. Over time a group of early adopters will build that data set for the public, but without the rigorous controls you used in testing. Which means you are likely to see less accuracy.

While the algorithms you use for determining the results are certainly proprietary, I fail to see how the test outcome data would be.
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Re: BSX insight LT test [chobbs] [ In reply to ]
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chobbs wrote:
Parasitepro--

Surely releasing the data would be a good thing from a marketing perspective. At the moment there seems to be a lot of discussion around whether the BSX is accurate. In the absence of data, most (myself included), just assume it is not. Over time a group of early adopters will build that data set for the public, but without the rigorous controls you used in testing. Which means you are likely to see less accuracy.

While the algorithms you use for determining the results are certainly proprietary, I fail to see how the test outcome data would be.

I think independent testing/validation is what is needed. No matter what they provide (and they have given us their assurance it's 97% accurate) there is no way to take it at full value until independent verification has taken place. So realistically, someone that could perform testing with a BSX as well as LT blood testing on 10+ athletes should just do so and publish their findings.
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Re: BSX insight LT test [mcmetal] [ In reply to ]
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mcmetal wrote:
chobbs wrote:
Parasitepro--

Surely releasing the data would be a good thing from a marketing perspective. At the moment there seems to be a lot of discussion around whether the BSX is accurate. In the absence of data, most (myself included), just assume it is not. Over time a group of early adopters will build that data set for the public, but without the rigorous controls you used in testing. Which means you are likely to see less accuracy.

While the algorithms you use for determining the results are certainly proprietary, I fail to see how the test outcome data would be.

I think independent testing/validation is what is needed. No matter what they provide (and they have given us their assurance it's 97% accurate) there is no way to take it at full value until independent verification has taken place. So realistically, someone that could perform testing with a BSX as well as LT blood testing on 10+ athletes should just do so and publish their findings.

I think it might be difficult to get such a paper accepted, at least by a stronger journal.

I say that because the fact that there is a breakpoint in muscle oxygenation as measured using NIRS that corresponds to "threshold" has already been demonstrated in numerous studies. Repeating such experiments using a BSX Insight device would therefore amount to simply product testing, which generally doesn't do much to advance scientific understanding.
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Re: BSX insight LT test [ddalzell] [ In reply to ]
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Does it give you both aerobic and anaerobic threshold? LT1 and LT2 I think they call it.

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Founder: BestBikeSplit
Amazonian
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Re: BSX insight LT test [Mrcooper] [ In reply to ]
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Yes.
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Re: BSX insight LT test [Tony5] [ In reply to ]
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Nice any insight you can give there in your experience? Working on a new model for BBS and looking at recovery rates in relation to the lower LT.

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Founder: BestBikeSplit
Amazonian
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Re: BSX insight LT test [Mrcooper] [ In reply to ]
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Check your PM
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Re: BSX insight LT test [Tony5] [ In reply to ]
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So from what I read you can use it to test and get your LT1 and LT2 points.

But they also talk about "daily use". Two posters said "daily" mode doesn't exist in their app.

Is this true ?
What would "daily" mode be used for ?
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