Login required to started new threads

Login required to post replies

Prev Next
BBInfinite Bottom Brackets - Performance Skeptism
Quote | Reply
Does anyone know anything about BBInfinite Bottom Brackets? I have been having issues with my P3 and I came across this new bb product after reading an article on bike rumor. I contacted them through their website and they claim not only to have solved some issues, they claim that they are the fastest bb's. I asked them how they could claim they were the fastest, they replied that they haven't officially released any numbers but their system was worth a 10% increase in efficiency from any other bb system, which they said was equivalent to 20 watts for an hour. Is there anyone that can substantiate this claim, is this even possible?
Quote Reply
Re: BBInfinite Bottom Brackets - Performance Skeptism [usmma08] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
usmma08 wrote:
Does anyone know anything about BBInfinite Bottom Brackets? I have been having issues with my P3 and I came across this new bb product after reading an article on bike rumor. I contacted them through their website and they claim not only to have solved some issues, they claim that they are the fastest bb's. I asked them how they could claim they were the fastest, they replied that they haven't officially released any numbers but their system was worth a 10% increase in efficiency from any other bb system, which they said was equivalent to 20 watts for an hour. Is there anyone that can substantiate this claim, is this even possible?

"20 watts for an hour" doesn't make sense as watts are an instantaneous measurement. If they mean it saves 20 watts, that's definitely BS as there's not 20W to be saved in a bottom bracket to begin with unless something is very very wrong.

Also their video showing that bearing preload is bad is laughable. Bearing preload is what keeps bearings from destroying themselves from wobbling back and forth due to the minute amount of clearance inherent in ball bearings.. A design that rigidly ties the bearing inner races together and also rigidly ties the outer races together doesn't make sense, as the preload is then dependent wholly on manufacturing tolerances.
Quote Reply
Re: BBInfinite Bottom Brackets - Performance Skeptism [usmma08] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
If you head over to friction-facts.com you can see data on various bottom brackets.

The good ones suck up less than a watt. The worst ones suck up just a little more than a watt.

so no, 20 watts is not possible.

usmma08 wrote:
they replied that they haven't officially released any numbers but their system was worth a 10% increase in efficiency from any other bb system, which they said was equivalent to 20 watts for an hour. Is there anyone that can substantiate this claim, is this even possible?



Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
Quote Reply
Re: BBInfinite Bottom Brackets - Performance Skeptism [asad137] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I dislike their marketing perspective. But I have a Cervelo BBright BBInfinite for Shimano cranksets with ceramic bearings sitting here waiting for an install after a non-stop year of trouble with my bike's BB/Crankset combo.

Originally a Rotor 4630 which failed after 1000km, replaced with a SRAM PF30 that failed after another 1000km (thankfully, like many, my bike addiction means it's not all I've had to ride.)

Tired of BBRight being BBWrong I bought a BBInfinite not because of the almost certainly ridiculous claims when it struck me that the product was created originally to solve the issue of BB creak and premature bearing wear when the bearings slip in the press-fit shells of the frame sets, and/or move laterally causing noise and wear.

To me the most interesting thing is the very solid BBInfinite shell. The bearings can be removed from the shell and serviced normally.

So sick was I of the above however, I decided to take plunge and simultaneously switch to a Shimano crankset (now that they offer 52/36 stock) because a) Shimano and b) Stages. ;)

I should have the LBS install it over the weekend - as they haven't been able to remedy my issues at all, but not for want of trying.

I'd be happy to provide updates and or answer questions.

Initial observation: this thing is solid (and heavy).
Last edited by: dialing_wand: Aug 6, 14 19:38
Quote Reply
Re: BBInfinite Bottom Brackets - Performance Skeptism [dialing_wand] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
How is the install gone for you? I am looking at purchasing, have a very loud creek in bb.

Thanks
Quote Reply
Re: BBInfinite Bottom Brackets - Performance Skeptism [dialing_wand] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
heh, yeah assuming it is well designed, you lose the advantages of BB30/BBRight (less weight/cost)
but you also lose the downsides!

like going back to threaded basically

dialing_wand wrote:

Initial observation: this thing is solid (and heavy).



Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
Quote Reply
Re: BBInfinite Bottom Brackets - Performance Skeptism [justrunning] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Cervelo is currently assessing the frame (with all the creaking) for warranty replacement so the install is on hold for just one week. Once I get the new frame; I'll come back and post here for sure. I'm hoping the shop will let me take pictures.

Regarding the return to threaded, indeed, I think this is one place where an attempt to save weight wasn't really entirely necessary and clearly, with Shimano still selling 24mm spindle cranks that are excellent, 30mm spindles aren't the end-all-be-all. Maybe they'll get it right, but it seems to me that PF BB's are fantastic if you have a team mechanic and free bearings/cranks. Otherwise, they're a nuisance for the day-in-day-out endurance cyclist who just wants to pedal noise-free.

I had my most recent cross build spec'ed with a threaded BB shell from the factory instead of a BB30 because of my (very limited - but unpleasant) issues with Press-Fit BBs. Took but two minutes to properly install myself and worked like a charm. Weight penalty: 180g for a SRAM Force CX1 GXP over the PF30/BB30 version.
Quote Reply
Re: BBInfinite Bottom Brackets - Performance Skeptism [dialing_wand] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
dialing_wand wrote:
I dislike their marketing perspective. But I have a Cervelo BBright BBInfinite for Shimano cranksets with ceramic bearings sitting here waiting for an install after a non-stop year of trouble with my bike's BB/Crankset combo.

Originally a Rotor 4630 which failed after 1000km, replaced with a SRAM PF30 that failed after another 1000km (thankfully, like many, my bike addiction means it's not all I've had to ride.)

Tired of BBRight being BBWrong I bought a BBInfinite not because of the almost certainly ridiculous claims when it struck me that the product was created originally to solve the issue of BB creak and premature bearing wear when the bearings slip in the press-fit shells of the frame sets, and/or move laterally causing noise and wear.

To me the most interesting thing is the very solid BBInfinite shell. The bearings can be removed from the shell and serviced normally.

So sick was I of the above however, I decided to take plunge and simultaneously switch to a Shimano crankset (now that they offer 52/36 stock) because a) Shimano and b) Stages. ;)

I should have the LBS install it over the weekend - as they haven't been able to remedy my issues at all, but not for want of trying.

I'd be happy to provide updates and or answer questions.

Initial observation: this thing is solid (and heavy).

Should've gone with this instead: http://wheelsmfg.com/...ontact-bearings.html


The angular contact bearings IMHO are the key to getting trouble-free operation out of PF30/BBright.

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
Quote Reply
Re: BBInfinite Bottom Brackets - Performance Skeptism [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I've had bad luck with other Wheels MFG parts; but the reason I didn't consider that one was the non-solid shell which seemed to be the crux of my issues (bearing surfaces not in alignment.)
Quote Reply
Re: BBInfinite Bottom Brackets - Performance Skeptism [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Quote Reply
Re: BBInfinite Bottom Brackets - Performance Skeptism [dialing_wand] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
dialing_wand wrote:
I've had bad luck with other Wheels MFG parts; but the reason I didn't consider that one was the non-solid shell which seemed to be the crux of my issues (bearing surfaces not in alignment.)

I was burning through drive side SRAM PF30 bearings at an unacceptably fast rate (I had 2 last for only 1 month of riding, and one for 6 months). It seemed to me to be more a case of the bearing being housed in a somewhat flexible cup (Nylon) and the cartridge bearings not designed to handle axial loads in addition to the radial loads. The combination of the 2 led to premature bearing failure on the driveside.

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
Quote Reply
Re: BBInfinite Bottom Brackets - Performance Skeptism [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
jackmott wrote:
Do the angular contact bearings not care if they are out of alignment a bit?


Not as much since they're designed to handle axial loads as well as radial. Typical cartridge bearings are really designed to handle mostly radial loading, and unless the alignment is spot on and stays there (I don't think the PF30 Nylon cups help in that regard...most likely flex during use, especially on the driveside) they're going to fail early.

It seems to me the combination of the aluminum cups and the angular contact bearings just makes a ton more sense for a BB application. The one I have in my S5 has well over a year and 5000 miles of trouble free operation so far.

edit: BTW, the old "cup and cone" style BB bearings are basically angular contact in design ;-)

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
Last edited by: Tom A.: Aug 26, 14 7:53
Quote Reply
Re: BBInfinite Bottom Brackets - Performance Skeptism [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Quote Reply
Re: BBInfinite Bottom Brackets - Performance Skeptism [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
So do I replace it with BBInfinite or not jackmott?

What do you think?
Quote Reply
Re: BBInfinite Bottom Brackets - Performance Skeptism [justrunning] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Quote Reply
Re: BBInfinite Bottom Brackets - Performance Skeptism [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Ok, what are your thoughts on maybe and definitely?
Quote Reply
Re: BBInfinite Bottom Brackets - Performance Skeptism [justrunning] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
justrunning wrote:
Ok, what are your thoughts on maybe and definitely?

The BBinfinite idea sounds good to me in theory, sounds good to Damon Rinard in theory. That is a good sign.

No idea how well they have implemented it, I haven't tried it myself or know anyone who has.

Tom A's suggestion about the angular contact bearings may also be good.

I have no idea how the overall friction of these BBs performs, they aren't in the friction-facts tests, though generally differences are very very small anyway so I wouldn't worry about that too much.



Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
Quote Reply
Re: BBInfinite Bottom Brackets - Performance Skeptism [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Thanks that helps out!!! I will repost if I get one installed.
Quote Reply
Re: BBInfinite Bottom Brackets - Performance Skeptism [justrunning] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
justrunning wrote:
Ok, what are your thoughts on maybe and definitely?

At less than half the price ($70 vs. $150), I'd go with the Wheels Mfg. angular contact BB (and I have!)

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
Quote Reply
Re: BBInfinite Bottom Brackets - Performance Skeptism [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Tom A. wrote:
The angular contact bearings IMHO are the key to getting trouble-free operation out of PF30/BBright.


That, and:
- alloy (vs delrin or nylon or plastic) PF bearing shell(s),
- and an arrangement where both non-drive and drive-side bearings are both housed within the physical BB shell of the bike frame, not 'canitlevered' outside the shell (so for bbright, that means you gotta run a 30mm BB spindle).

Advanced Aero TopTube Storage for Road, Gravel, & Tri...ZeroSlip & Direct-mount, made in the USA.
DarkSpeedWorks.com.....Reviews.....Insta.....Facebook

--
Last edited by: DarkSpeedWorks: Aug 26, 14 17:56
Quote Reply
Re: BBInfinite Bottom Brackets - Performance Skeptism [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Just a follow up on the bbinfinite bottom bracket. Had one installed and no problems so far. Creak is gone and seems to be very smooth, not a peep. This is what I had installed.

http://bbinfinite.com/...egory&path=68_69 Gary from bbinfinite was very helpful figured out what I needed shipped asap.

Thanks
Last edited by: justrunning: Sep 8, 14 8:44
Quote Reply
Re: BBInfinite Bottom Brackets - Performance Skeptism [justrunning] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
My own follow-up is off-topic.

My BBInfinite has yet to be installed; the shop doing my service work, which is not the shop the bike was purchased from asked that I humour them and allow them to do one more PF30 BB install, claiming my original shop was simply doing poor work.

I dislike that the setup can be this finicky. I was also, shall we say, suspicious. The shop at which the bike was purchased was a big one and although I was unhappy with how I was handled, I did believe they were trying (albeit very slowly) to fix my issue.

Cutting it short, the new shop did an install, returned my bike and it's been problem free for about on some terribly rough roads and rides.

I'll save my BBInfinite for an eventual switch to Shimano from Rotor.
Quote Reply
Re: BBInfinite Bottom Brackets - Performance Skeptism [dialing_wand] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
There you go. Most of the BBright issues are due to install problems. It is absolutely necessary to use the right loctite and surface prep, and press in method. AS well, as others have said, aluminum cups and angular contact bearings help, OTOH I've installed a bunch with bog standard SRAM PF30 cups and bearings and they are on multiple seasons with no issues. bbright.net has the install procedure. (before you flame me, I said "most" and not "all", knowing that this is the internet, and internet failure statistics will hold....)
Quote Reply
Re: BBInfinite Bottom Brackets - Performance Skeptism [goodboyr] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
No flaming - you are totally correct; I just wish when I bought my bike someone would have told me I could have saved $300 and two months without my bike by buying it at a shop that new what they were doing.

More OT notes; the shop that fixed it apparently just lost their Cervelo license because the big shop where I bought it wasn't able to push all their stock (they're fairly close), even though former was Montreal's first Cervelo dealer. Sad days... I'll still take it to the one that fixed my problem whether they're an authorized dealer or not. #customerforlife
Quote Reply
Re: BBInfinite Bottom Brackets - Performance Skeptism [dialing_wand] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Congrats on the newly working BB, but I'm kind of bummed you didn't end up putting the BBinfinite in there. I was really looking forward to hearing how it performed! I'm about to build up my R5, and I'm debating between the PF30 BB cups that came with the frame (plus primer/loctite) or spending a little bit extra on the BBinfinite. This video is pretty convincing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpsCpp8YlnM
Quote Reply

Prev Next