Happens more often nowadays.

Got pummeled by one guy repeatedly (repeated punching and kicking) in a 70.3 recently.


Attribute it to "Growth" of the sport and influence of people with shortcomings (mostly in swimming etiquette, but more so in character).

At IM Los Cabos some guy put his hand on the back of my head and held me under for a few seconds. If was at the first turn buoy. Not sure what I did to inspire this but it didn't work out well for him.

WTF? Seriously.

Just been down at Challenge UK. Got to say, it was a great atmosphere. Didn't seem to have everyone walking around in their race suit from the moment they arrive and i didn't see any draughting on the bike. Both these were in full affect at the Ironman branded events I've been to. Maybe because Ironman is the synonymous name of LD triathlon, it attracts more of the bucket listers and aggressive AGers and so forth rather than athletes with a sense of fair play?

Shocking that people can't behave like normal members of society.

i have had similar. I have been held underwater hand on back of the neck, with a swimmer physically swimming over me. Knee in the back, just scrambling to swim OVER me. Struggled for air and panicked a bit. You just think to yourself 'geez its just a sport'

Sounds like one should probably pack some heat while swimming. Anyone know what the most hydrodynamic Ka-Bar is? Just say you think you saw a shark, and that's probably what happened.

One of the key argumnt for wave starts

---

Francois-Xavier Li @FrancoisLi
"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing." George Bernard Shaw
http://www.swimrunfrance.fr
http://www.worldofswimrun.com

that is when you use your kick or fists drills....

I have "dunked" people in the swim before. I had someone repeatedly swim over me, because they did not learn to sight while they swam.
the third time this idiot hit me in the side of the head, I swiped his googles off and shoved him under. I was able to continue my race unmolested.
NO ONE WILL "DUNK" YOU un provoked .
Yea... I may be an asshole... but your a bigger asshole for screwing up my race... learn how to sight..... your confrontations will drop dramatically

J

---

You can't fix stupid ..

This is a better argument against wave swims

---

---

---

Take a short break from ST and read my blog:
http://tri-banter.blogspot.com/

Actually...no...you're the bigger asshole. How about just putting in a bit of an effort and swimming away from him? If he can't swim in a straight line, he should be really easy to drop.

+ 1
total asshole, making things worse

I do not doubt that people are telling the truth of the events as they perceived them, but in nearly 10 years of competing in triathlons, and something like 100 to 150 starts - I have never once encountered any level of violence experienced beyond what I would expect in a mad dash of closely spaced people that don't have a full range of vision.

I am a FOMOP swimmer. Mediocre for a triathlete, terrible for a true swimmer. I only put that in because it gives you a frame of reference: I end up overtaking a lot of slow swimmers from waves in front of me and I get overtaken by a lot of fast swimmers from waves behind me. I see both sides of this.

What I noticed this year was what a huge difference that water clarity makes in swimmer interactions. At Muncie, I inadvertently swam up on slower swimmers multiple times because I just did not see them, in their black wetsuits, until I was right on top of them. As soon as I touched them I moved over and went around but I know that there was a significant amount of initial contact and I am sure that a lot of folks who were getting overtaken were thinking, "WTF?" even though the contact was not intentional. At Steelhead and Mont Tremblant the water is so much clearer that you can see people in the water before you swim 'over' them and avoid them altogether, at least that has been my experience.

I do think that people don't realize how hard a good swimmer is grabbing the water and pulling. That 'punch' or 'grabbed and pushed me under' might just be the normal stroke of a powerful swimmer who is really catching the water (and you with it). Now, if they do it to the same person over and over that is not cool but the initial contact is often unavoidable and I hope not premeditated.

---

----------------------------
Jason
None of the secrets of success will work unless you do.

Totally agree. I've never done a mass start race, or started in clear water for that matter, but as a stronger swimmer I often find myself up and onto slower swimmers and will have grabbed their (head, arm, shoulder, ankle, zipper pull, etc...) with no intention of actually doing so. I became a swimmer as a kid because I wasn't into contact sports...

Hang on....we might get kicked by accident, or slapped by accident as this is what would happen if you get near a person just swimming with their regular stroke

But who the f^&K does "fist drills" in the middle of a race. There is no place for punching in our sport, just like there is no place for punching in tennis, golf, baseball, and many other sports where you should be severely reprimanded or suspended for punching an opponent. That's just just acceptable behavior and if you are at the receiving end and can identify the person who does the hitting, that person should be reported, DQ'd and barred from entering another race.

Is it OK to punch on the bike and the run? The answer is no. So why in the swim. I don't want somone's wife, kid, or grandparent getting punched by some idiot with too much testosterone. I don't want to be at the receiving end of it myself, but I can deal with it.

Punching has no place in the swim or any leg of our sport.

The breast stroke kick needs to stop. A swimmer stops to look around then to get going again takes a breast stroke kick. I've been kicked this way several times. Most recently at IMWisco, which resulted in 2 cracked ribs. Not the end of the world, but made for a pretty painful day.

The swim smart initiative is a step in the right direction. I just wish there was more training about swimming with a group. How to sight, how to seed yourself properly, no breast stroke kicking if you're in a pack, etc.

+1 to this guy .... if the other athlete can't sight it is a good indication they probably aren't as strong of a swimmer. Suck it up buttercup and get yourself a small push to outpace and drop him/her.

I've had a guy grab my ankle and pull himself in a body glide over my back to gain an advantage. He happened to do it right when I was coming up for a breath too so it was a pleasant lung full of water I got on top of it all. Thankfully I was able to cough it up mid-stroke and only lose rhythm and a bit of momentum.

---

------
"Train so you have no regrets @ the finish line"

I agree that a deliberate punch is unacceptable but I doubt anyone is actually doing that (except maybe mr aggressive dude a few posts above). The one and only time I've been clocked hard in a swim was IMMT '12 and it sure felt like a punch but I was in the process of trying to insert myself into a paceline of strong swimmers and pretty much deserved what I got. I have no doubt I just got caught in the guy's arm recovery.

Agreed, punching has no place, but I know that when I've made contact with people in the swim (because I can't see them in the all-black wetsuit) and I catch them with my forearm or back of my hand, it probably feels like a punch. Especially when I was younger and faster.

That's not to say it doesn't happen, I can see it happening if people are gettign frustrated in the middle of the swim and tempers flare. This is also why I like to find clear water whenever I can.

---

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

You are completely right here...you are an asshole. I can't think of ANY reason to justify aggression towards a fellow athlete. Even if they were being intentionally aggressive, that seems all the more reason to de-escalate the situation.

---

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
willmillertriathlon.blogspot.com

Solution: swim faster! Just kidding, kinda.....I am in M35-39 and have not really had to many issues, my friends in lower age groups m25-29 and m30-34 seems to have more issues with this from what they tell me, maybe we get more mellow with age?

---

2024: Bevoman, Galveston, Alcatraz, Marble Falls, Santa Cruz

If you get "slapped" this is part of the other swimmer's stroke. If you get knocked by an elbow, same deal. Closed fist HAS to be deliberate. No place for deliberate assault. People just think that because they are clad in rubber and not identifiable then all civil rules of society disappear (somewhat akin to how people behave on highways encased in steel in their cars or how anonymous posters on ST behave from behind the security of the keyboard). I have generally found that in no wetsuit swims, where we can identify each other, people just behave better. In any case, all of this is an aside. There is no room for deliberate assault in our sport. Zero...NONE. Incidental contact as part of the stroke is fine.

We actually have to eliminate the notion that pre meditated/ reactionary attacks to fellow competitors are "part of the sport". They are not and must not be tolerated.


There are better ways to communicate with fellow athletes who are pissing us off. If someone passes to close to me on the bike, is it OK to stick a pump in their spokes and make them crash? Of course not? Body check someone in my way at an aid station on the run and shove them in the ditch? So then how is deliberate assault on the swim OK? Because the force is softened by the rubber around our bodies, versus the force of a rider hitting the pavement or a runner landing in the ditch? All have the intent of physical harm so none are good, even though, the outcome of one may be worse than the others.

And don't get me wrong...I have been competing at the fairly pointy end of age group fields now for 30 years. I get that things are competitive and I get that tempers get hot, but if they can have CIAU hockey where there is no fighting (Canadian equivalant of NCAA), we can certainly have tris where deliberate assault of any kind is unacceptable and banned. Now I fully understand that it is hard to enforce, but that does not mean that we athletes can't affect the culture or what is acceptable or not.

So your reaction to someone being a poor swimmer is to intentionally put their safety in jeapordy? You're a prime example of the worst this sport has to offer. Your race is nothing compared to the life of your competitiors. You're in desperate need of some perspective.

---

-Andrew

Again, I agree with you.

My point was that people may *think* they have been punched with a closed fist when in fact they just got hit by someone's arm/back of the hand etc.