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Ask me about my trip to A2!
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leegoocrap
Jun 19, 12 4:07
Post #1 of 57
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Ask me about my trip to A2!
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An early birthday present to myself, I decided to go play in the tunnel for a couple of hours. Learned a Ton of stuff, but it pales in comparison to the questions it opened up.
First, a game for the aero eyeballs. Which one tested fastest?
Fire Away any questions you've got. I admit a lot of it is still over my head but I'll try to answer what I can.
http://leegoocrap.blogspot.com
Dopers.Suck
Jun 19, 12 4:15
Post #2 of 57
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Re: Ask me about my trip to A2! [leegoocrap]
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Which helmet tested faster? Did you test the Rudy with the solid vent cover in place at all? Did you leave the little plastic fairing in the tail in place for all the tests?
Which position tested the fastest? My guess is the Rudy helmet with the extensions straight or the 1st picture with 17 showing.
How much did the testing cost you? And how much time were you allowed? Any big surprises aero wise?
"I swim because that's how I get to ride my bike."
Yosa125
Jun 19, 12 4:25
Post #3 of 57
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Re: Ask me about my trip to A2! [leegoocrap]
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Did you play around with various hydration setups or wheel combinations? ..or just body position? If so any interesting or surprising results?
I noticed an aero bottle mounted in picture 4, did that test the fastest?
leegoocrap
Jun 19, 12 4:36
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Re: Ask me about my trip to A2! [Dopers.Suck]
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Dopers.Suck wrote:
Which helmet tested faster? Did you test the Rudy with the solid vent cover in place at all? Did you leave the little plastic fairing in the tail in place for all the tests?
The Rudy tested fastest for me (lucky lucky, don't have to buy a new helmet!) but the position of it made an absolutely GIGANTIC difference. Both fairings (solid cover and rear tail cover) in place on all the tests.
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Which position tested the fastest? My guess is the Rudy helmet with the extensions straight or the 1st picture with 17 showing.
How much did the testing cost you? And how much time were you allowed? Any big surprises aero wise?
I'll let you know what was fastest a bit later after a few more people get to guess.
A2 charges $420/hr. I spent a bit under 3hr's and would suggest anybody interested plans on at least two. The problem with much longer than 2-3 hours is you (I) start getting tired and it can mess with results when you (I) start squirming. I did 28 tests total and it felt like a hell of a workout when I was done.
Some huge surprises! (to me) Have to wait until a lull at work today for me to put some on here.
http://leegoocrap.blogspot.com
styrrell
Jun 19, 12 6:51
Post #5 of 57
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Re: Ask me about my trip to A2! [leegoocrap]
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I'd say 27, 17, 1, 6 fastest to slowest.
Styrrell
morey000
Jun 19, 12 7:21
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Re: Ask me about my trip to A2! [leegoocrap]
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17, 27, 1, 6 fastest to slowest.
that's my guess. 17 and 27 are close- but I'm going with the flatter back one as faster for you (could go either way). Hands up I've heard can be faster- but it depends. Would want to see frontal shots of course.
jmhtx
Jun 19, 12 7:26
Post #7 of 57
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Re: Ask me about my trip to A2! [leegoocrap]
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Of the positions that look comfortable, I'd say 1 fastest, then 6.
leegoocrap
Jun 19, 12 7:54
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Re: Ask me about my trip to A2! [jmhtx]
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Run 17 (Mantis - bars raised to 25°) tested the fastest of the day repeatable (Behind the same position + Turtling head which knocked off another 100+ Grams)
Run 27 (Mantis - bars raised to 30°) tested the worst of the day. Raising the bars from 0 - 20° had almost absolutely no effect at all on my aerodynamics, nor did the position of elbow pads (tried Zabriskie tight/elbows touching and spread apart farther)
Run 1 (Flat - bars at 0° rise) tested quite good as well.
Some interesting things
Long tail helmets tested ok to good for me, short tails poorly, and the Rudy tested best.
The difference between a 1pc and 2pc tri kit was around 50-60g (2pc being worse)
Race belt low on the waist tested best, then high on the waist (about where you would wear a hr strap) and worst was twisted around facing forward.
Hydration:
- Virtue bottle (custom fit/tinkered with to fill that gap flush) tested just a few grams (worse) off of neutral at 0 yaw, but made a big improvement at 10°
- Torpedo mount was fine with flat bars (one of the better runs) but was an absolute disaster (seriously, like worst run of the entire day) when position switched to mantis style.
- Behind the saddle system (PD style w/2 bottles) was alright at 0, but not so great at 10° - Holding one in jersey pocket was an improvement (and likely so would carrying one like Lieto under saddle... but I didn't test that)
A2 was a great experience. Well exceeding my expectations.
http://leegoocrap.blogspot.com
morey000
Jun 19, 12 8:02
Post #9 of 57
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Re: Ask me about my trip to A2! [leegoocrap]
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firstly- I'd like to say that, ahem... I got it right.
secondly- I've always figured that a one piece tri-suit, since it's stretched over you with all the wrinkles pulled out and without that extra seam would be much faster. Glad to know that it is- and that's a fair number of grams different.
but then- where do you put the water bottle in your back pocket, if you're wearing a onesy?
I've got a torhans aero bottle. I don't expect that it would be very sensitive to aspect angle, at least not compared to your bottle setup in front. However, my aero cockpit (Felt deveox) changes aspect with my bars if I go mantis. So that will start to add drag.
Anyway - interesting stuff. thanks for sharing.
MTM
Jun 19, 12 8:45
Post #10 of 57
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Re: Ask me about my trip to A2! [leegoocrap]
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Thanks for the info.
My position is not that different from yours and I've actually found some of the same things you mentioned in my field testing. I've tested arms slightly angled up (not as much as you have since I have to stay within UCI rules) and horizontal arms and couldn't tell a difference. Same thing with the elbow pads, arms touching and out to ~10cm or so apart doesn't seem to make a measurable difference - I guess the air just hits your legs instead when going really narrow. All this at close to zero yaw since it's field testing in calm conditions.
chicanery
Jun 19, 12 10:07
Post #11 of 57
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Re: Ask me about my trip to A2! [leegoocrap]
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But what about the Zipp? Don't tell me you went to A2 only with the slower of your two machines?
Chris
Runless
Jun 19, 12 10:12
Post #12 of 57
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Re: Ask me about my trip to A2! [leegoocrap]
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hey leegoo thanks for sharing. I've been doing a hands up lately so this is interesting to me...
Anyway, my questions would be:
1. where was the horizontal bottle mounted? In between arms and bars, or, "behind" your arms towards your face?
2. Also, did you try the DZ "look down" in your mantis position? Did the Rudy do better looking up that much?
RChung
Jun 19, 12 10:15
Post #13 of 57
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Re: Ask me about my trip to A2! [leegoocrap]
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Thanks for sharing the pics and results. I think the moral of this story is that the eyeball isn't a very precise measuring tool.
leegoocrap
Jun 19, 12 10:15
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Re: Ask me about my trip to A2! [chicanery]
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chicanery wrote:
But what about the Zipp? Don't tell me you went to A2 only with the slower of your two machines?
Chris
:( I took it but ran out of time (did I say time... I mean $$$) before we got a chance.
It lives with my race wheels in "I believe it's faster" in my mind :) Duplicating the measurements on it is going to be...interesting!
http://leegoocrap.blogspot.com
chicanery
Jun 19, 12 10:24
Post #15 of 57
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Re: Ask me about my trip to A2! [leegoocrap]
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Time for a Look ergostem. Probably the only way you're getting the bars low enough to match.
Chris
leegoocrap
Jun 19, 12 10:46
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Re: Ask me about my trip to A2! [Runless]
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Runless wrote:
hey leegoo thanks for sharing. I've been doing a hands up lately so this is interesting to me...
Anyway, my questions would be:
1. where was the horizontal bottle mounted? In between arms and bars, or, "behind" your arms towards your face?
in between the arms
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2. Also, did you try the DZ "look down" in your mantis position? Did the Rudy do better looking up that much?
My head out of "tail touching back" tested slower no matter where else I held it. Over 50g difference from tail touching and tail up a bit.
- Chris you are probably right... although I may save some $ and get the Ritchey :)
http://leegoocrap.blogspot.com
(This post was
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by leegoocrap on Jun 19, 12 10:46)
Bryancd
Jun 19, 12 11:09
Post #17 of 57
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Re: Ask me about my trip to A2! [leegoocrap]
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Very cool, Chris, and very interesting. How much of an improvement was going to 25 degrees vs. flat bars?
-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
ZOOT Ultra Triathlon Team
Sponsors: ZOOT, GARMIN, GU, FuelBelt, SPY Optics, PR Bar
leegoocrap
Jun 19, 12 11:13
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Re: Ask me about my trip to A2! [Bryancd]
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Hey Bryan, not banned here yet I see :P
~80 Grams difference
http://leegoocrap.blogspot.com
elpete
Jun 19, 12 11:25
Post #19 of 57
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Re: Ask me about my trip to A2! [leegoocrap]
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Interesting. Definitely looks aero. Makes me want to drop my bars again and go lower. However, I seem to loose a good bit of threshold power when I drop that low. Sub maximal efforts are fine but it just doesn't work for me at threshold. Let us know how it works out.
jackmott
Jun 19, 12 11:30
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Re: Ask me about my trip to A2! [elpete]
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elpete wrote:
Sub maximal efforts are fine but it just doesn't work for me at threshold. Let us know how it works out.
well just arrange the races to always be longer than a 1 hour bike split ;)
I assume you have tried the obvious things like moving the saddle forward, etc to get the power AND the low?
Memorial day sale at ATC and Meet Pro Triathlete Matty Reed - Sat May 25 - Captex!
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elpete
Jun 19, 12 11:39
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Re: Ask me about my trip to A2! [jackmott]
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jackmott wrote:
elpete wrote:
Sub maximal efforts are fine but it just doesn't work for me at threshold. Let us know how it works out.
well just arrange the races to always be longer than a 1 hour bike split ;)
I assume you have tried the obvious things like moving the saddle forward, etc to get the power AND the low?
Hah, I'll just start racing IM :) Problem for me is that I've only done sprints in the 3 years I have been at this. I've tried everything but end up changing things too much and too often. Just went in for a pro fit. Seat to handlebar drop reduced from 18 to 10 cm.
Bryancd
Jun 19, 12 12:11
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Re: Ask me about my trip to A2! [leegoocrap]
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leegoocrap wrote:
Hey Bryan, not banned here yet I see :P
~80 Grams difference
I think you actually have to convicted, not charged, with a multiple homicide to get banned here. :)
-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
ZOOT Ultra Triathlon Team
Sponsors: ZOOT, GARMIN, GU, FuelBelt, SPY Optics, PR Bar
leegoocrap
Jun 19, 12 12:24
Post #23 of 57
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Re: Ask me about my trip to A2! [Bryancd]
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Bryancd wrote:
leegoocrap wrote:
Hey Bryan, not banned here yet I see :P
~80 Grams difference
I think you actually have to convicted, not charged, with a multiple homicide to get banned here. :)
hahaha indeed. You can't force choke everybody that stands in your way you know...
http://leegoocrap.blogspot.com
Bryancd
Jun 19, 12 12:42
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Re: Ask me about my trip to A2! [leegoocrap]
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Order 66- "Wipe them out..all of them."
-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
ZOOT Ultra Triathlon Team
Sponsors: ZOOT, GARMIN, GU, FuelBelt, SPY Optics, PR Bar
silentcs42
Jun 19, 12 12:47
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Re: Ask me about my trip to A2! [Bryancd]
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"If you're not with me, then you're my enemy."
How'd the giro2 test vs the Rudy?
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The New Specialized Wind Tunnel
Will this be a game changer for Specialized, in both sales and product design, or will it not move the sales and design needle versus those in Specialized's competitive set?
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Minor move forward
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